ECT If your not OSAS then your not saved ,true or false?

[glorydaz]

how many new Christians know about AOS\ OSAS

True, but you do hear all true believers understanding that they are saved in spite of their sins...in spite of their inability to be perfect....in spite of all their faults that they know full well they will always have (simply because man always falls short of the glory of God). They know full well they are accepting God's mercy as they are. "God be merciful to me a sinner". They are humbled before the Lord.

I have never heard anybody yet from the works crowed
talk about having lost their salvation and regaining over and over like they preach can happen.

Of course, their trust is in themselves, and their own ability to do the right things. Humanism at it's finest.

 

[way 2 go]

How can anyone equate not of works with not of obedience?

How can anyone gather that Paul is saying no works meaning no obedience?

That is where the big error lies. That is where the OSAS doctrine must come in for the false doctrine of faith alone.

When Paul the Pharisee taught faith and not works---that is about our not having to clean ourselves because Jesus now cleans us. It does not mean we no longer have to do anything. It means we do not have to get circumcised and offer the blood of animals.

have you ever lost your salvation and regained it ?

 

[God's Truth]

Just think about it more...the Jews had to clean themselves for hundreds and hundreds of years. When Jesus came, the earthly temple was still standing, and animal sacrifices were given daily.

The Gentiles were enemies of God and were UNCLEAN, they were DEAD IN THEIR sins because they did not clean themselves.

When Jesus died on the cross, his shed blood cleans us now, and only by faith.

Paul explains that, but many MISUNDERSTAND Paul. Paul is speaking of how we do not have to clean ourselves with works of animal sacrifices because it is only through faith now. Paul DOES NOT say we no longer have to obey God.

 

[God's Truth]

have you ever lost your salvation and regained it ?

No; and, I am sure of my salvation. However, a person can lose their salvation. We are warned for a reason.

What kind of salvation do you think you have if you are living a life not obeying God? Please give me an answer.

 

[glorydaz]

Whoever does or has done Romans 10:9-10 is saved, whether or not they remember doing it, whether or not they sinned or not sinned afterwards, whether they live it or not, whether or not they claim to be saved or not, whether or not they deny they were saved or not, whether they deny God or His sons or not, whether they believe in the gift of salvation/eternal life or not.

All we did to receive salvation is receive it. It is ours, it is as permanent as eternal life, which for those who are confused, lasts for

a. one minute or the first time you sin after you are saved

b. all eternity

Eternal life is eternal life.

That is salvation.

So, on the other thread why did you chastise me when I said to believe is to be fully persuaded? You called it a work. You can't have it both ways, Oats.

 

[oatmeal]

Whoever does or has done Romans 10:9-10 is saved, whether or not they remember doing it, whether or not they sinned or not sinned afterwards, whether they live it or not, whether or not they claim to be saved or not, whether or not they deny they were saved or not, whether they deny God or His sons or not, whether they believe in the gift of salvation/eternal life or not.

All we did to receive salvation is receive it. It is ours, it is as permanent as eternal life, which for those who are confused, lasts for

a. one minute or the first time you sin after you are saved

b. all eternity

Eternal life is eternal life.

That is salvation.

However, we must learn the clear and necessary distinction between what the gift of salvation is and what our responsibility is to use that gift of salvation, ie, works as the result of salvation.

Note Ephesians 2:8-9, these verses clarify that salvation is a gift.

Note what follows immediately after verses 8-9, amazingly enough, verse 10!

What does verse 10 tell us? That as a result of having received the gift of salvation, we have been given a job to do. Ephesians 2:10

The gift of salvation is actually useful to God and to us!!!!

We can do works as the result of having received the gift of salvation that we could not possibly do with eternal rewards before we received salvation.

See Romans 12:1-3 we can renew our minds to think what scripture saves we can do.

We can for instance, do what we are now spiritually qualified and spiritually enabled to do

Romans 12:4-8

Not only so we can now do, for instance, Romans 12:9. Could we do that before we received the gift of salvation? Not really, superficially maybe, but not with the depth and length and breadth and height that we can now do because of salvation.

that takes work, if we are to continue to do that work based on having received the gift of salvation, then we must continue to have that gift of salvation, or else this verse would be telling us to do something we are incapable of doing.

God is wise

He knows that He had to equip us to do the good works we should do, thus He equipped us with the means to do so. First, He supplied us with scripture, and secondly He supplied us with the gift of salvation.

He expects us to do good for all eternity, thus He equipped us with eternal life so that we could and with the right motive. He first loved us , so we realize that we joyfully love him back by obeying Him in doing good works, for all eternity

 

[way 2 go]

No; and, I am sure of my salvation.

thank you

What kind of salvation do you think you have if you are living a life not obeying God? Please give me an answer.

by grace
I'm not as good as you
Rom 11:6

 

[musterion]

Originally Posted by God's Truth
How can anyone equate not of works with not of obedience?

Only when you equate obedience with work to BE saved or to STAY saved, which adds to the completed, perfect work of Christ on our behalf.

How would a person know he/she lost salvation, if they did lose it? You're the one who believes it can happen, please explain that. I've never seen a good answer to it.

 

[God's Truth]

thank you


by grace
I'm not as good as you
Rom 11:6

You did not answer the question.

So tell me, what are you doing all day if you are not obeying?

 

[God's Truth]

Notice that way 2 go did not touch the part where I speak of what kind of works Paul was speaking of our not being saved by.

Misunderstanding Paul about no works went way back, so far back the apostle Peter heard of it. After Peter tells us people misunderstand Paul, he then warns us to obey. See 2 Peter 3:16, and 17.

James must of heard of it too, for he calls you foolish, and tells us faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone. See James 2:14, 17, 20, and 22.

Even to this day we have people that misunderstand Paul and say grace means we do not have to obey God. Who but the devil would be behind teaching no obedience?

 

[God's Truth]

Only when you equate obedience with work to BE saved or to STAY saved, which adds to the completed, perfect work of Christ on our behalf.

Jesus saves us all on his own, and he chooses whom he will save. Jesus saves those who obey him.

I explained to you what works Paul was speaking about. Why don't you consider it more carefully? See Mark 4:24.

How would a person know he/she lost salvation, if they did lose it? You're the one who believes it can happen, please explain that. I've never seen a good answer to it.

A person who does not know they lost their salvation is a person who has believed in the lie of faith alone and OSAS.

A person lost their salvation if they stopped believing Jesus, and or when they continued to live their life in sin.

 

[God's Truth]

Musterion, tell me, what kind of salvation do you have if you live your life sinning as always?

 

[musterion]

Misunderstanding Paul about no works went way back, so far back the apostle Peter heard of it. After Peter tells us people misunderstand Paul, he then warns us to obey. See 2 Peter 3:16, and 17.

Does Peter say Paul was talking about doing works to stay saved?

James must of heard of it too, for he calls you foolish, and tells us faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone. See James 2:14, 17, 20, and 22.

James wrote before Paul took his first missionary journey.

Even to this day we have people that misunderstand Paul and say grace means we do not have to obey God.

Name one MAD who says grace means freedom not to obey God.

 

[musterion]

Jesus saves us all on his own...Jesus saves those who obey him.

Those are contradictory. You make no sense, woman.

A person lost their salvation if they stopped believing Jesus, and or when they continued to live their life in sin.

But every believer still has the old flesh, which can do nothing BUT sin. You've admitted that yourself. How do you know your sins of the flesh have not already lost you your salvation?

 

[musterion]

Musterion, tell me, what kind of salvation do you have if you live your life sinning as always?

What have I ever posted that makes you think that I do?

 

[patrick jane]

Those are contradictory. You make no sense, woman.



But every believer still has the old flesh, which can do nothing BUT sin. You've admitted that yourself. How do you know your sins of the flesh have not already lost you your salvation?

GT is a new creatuture; a new creation that does not sin. GT obeys all of God's commands and Jesus' teachings -

 

[God's Truth]

Does Peter say Paul was talking about doing works to stay saved?

Musterion, think about it, Peter warns us to obey. What do you warn us from doing? YOU warn us to not obey. You say you better only believe and not obey!

James wrote before Paul took his first missionary journey.

You do not know that for sure! Not only that, it more so proves the case I am speaking of! It would mean James taught not of by works, just like Paul would teach, and that meaning not of CEREMONIAL WORKS.

Name one MAD who says grace means freedom not to obey God.

Whenever you preach faith alone and GO AGAINST PEOPLE SUCH AS ME that say we must obey---then you are going against obeying God.

Did you forget why you are going against me?!!!

 

[musterion]

Musterion, think about it, Peter warns us to obey. What do you warn us from doing? YOU warn us to not obey. You say you better only believe and not obey!

No. Peter did not say Paul was referring to works. You made that up.

You do not know that for sure!

No. James never referred to Paul. You made that up.

Not only that, it more so proves the case I am speaking of!

No. James never referred to Paul. You made that up.

It would mean James taught not of by works, just like Paul would teach, and that meaning not of CEREMONIAL WORKS.

No. They made no such distinction. You made that up. Law is Law.

Whenever you preach faith alone and GO AGAINST PEOPLE SUCH AS ME that say we must obey---then you are going against obeying God.

No, because it's you who goes against Paul and think he was not smart enough to explain what you were chosen to explain to us on TOL.

Did you forget why you are going against me?!!!

No. It's because you preach a false gospel of works to keep yourself saved, and will be damned for it if you don't repent.

 

[patrick jane]

Jesus saves us all on his own, and he chooses whom he will save. Jesus saves those who obey him.

I explained to you what works Paul was speaking about. Why don't you consider it more carefully? See Mark 4:24.



A person who does not know they lost their salvation is a person who has believed in the lie of faith alone and OSAS.

A person lost their salvation if they stopped believing Jesus, and or when they continued to live their life in sin.

you poor soul

 

[way 2 go]

You did not answer the question.

So tell me, what are you doing all day if you are not obeying?

I did answer you, you didn't like the answer.