egyptianmuslim
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Now, is there one working covenant or two?
God Evolved
- Thread starter CherubRam
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Now, is there one working covenant or two?
CherubRam
New member
Only the New Covenant is in effect.
Judaeo, Judaic, Judaizers, Judaize, Judaism
According to the early Church historian Eusebius, himself a Gentile Bishop of Caesarea Maritima in the Holy Land, from 314 to 338 AD, he provides a list of 13 successive Bishops of Jerusalem, from the time of the death of Simeon in 107 A.D. It is interesting to note that he remarks that. Quote: "they were all Judaeo Christians."
In other words, they were a bunch of Judaizers.
The Council of Laodicea around A.D. 364 decreed 59 Canon laws.
Canon XXIX: “Christians must not Judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honoring the Lord’s Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be Judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.”
The Catholics would go out on a Saturday and look for people congregating at each other's house. If scriptures were found among them they would be accused of being Judaizers.
Judaize
Darby translation.
Gal 2;14. But when I saw that they do not walk straightforwardly, according to the truth of the glad tidings, I said to Peter before all, If *thou*, being a Jew, livest as the nations and not as the Jews, how dost thou compel the nations to Judaize?
Judaize
YLT
Galatians 2:14
But when I saw that they are not walking uprightly to the truth of the good news, I said to Peter before all, `If thou, being a Jew, in the manner of the nations dost live, and not in the manner of the Jews, how the nations dost thou compel to Judaize?
Galatians 2:14
But when I saw that they were not walking uprightly according to the truth of the good news, I said to Peter before everyone, If you, being a Jew live in the manner of the nations, and not in the manner of the Jews, then how will you compel the nations to Judaize?
Translated Judaize in some modern versions.
G2450
Ἰουδαΐ́ζω
Ioudaizō
ee-oo-dah-id'-zo
From G2453; to become a Judaean, that is, “judaize”: - live as the Jews.
#1. Constantine the Great was the Pagan high priest until the day he died. He faked his baptism the first time to please his fellow pagans. He did not get baptized until he was on his death bed. He also made himself head of the Christian Church.
#2. According to scripture a Jew is a convert to Judaism. Before people were called Christians they were called converts to Judaism.
#3. The Judaeo (Judaizing) Christians did not take part in the persecution of the Jews. However, the Jews, and the Pagans, and the Gnostic's, and the Protestants killed almost every [Judaeo / Judaizing] Christian until almost none were left alive.
Enoch 89:5. I also cried out, and groaned in my sleep against the shepherd which overlooked the flock. 6. And I looked, while the sheep were eaten up by the dogs, by the eagles, and by the kites. They neither left them their body, nor their skin, nor their muscles, until their bones alone remained; and until their bones fell upon the ground. And the sheep became very few.
Now days most every protestant Church say that they are the true Judaeo Christians.
An exercise in walnut harvesting: When the tree is shaken all the nuts fall out.
The term Judeo or Judaic Christian is theologically, philosophically, and historically evident and universally accepted. However, a lot of historians, politicians, and congregations disagree with it. The term is synonymous with Judaizing. The New Testament Covenant is in fact the replacement of the Old Covenant and priesthood, with Christ as the head of the priesthood. Regardless if a person chooses to accept it, it still remains a fact of life.
Judaizers were those who kept the commandments of God and the testimony of Yahshua. They were despised by others because they also rejected the authority of the Pope, Sunday Sabbath, Trinitarianism, Hell, and the joining of any Pagan beliefs to God and scriptures.
Matthew 23:15
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.
Acts 2:11
both Jews and converts to Judaism; Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!”
Acts 6:5
This proposal pleased the whole group. They chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit; also Philip, Procorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolas from Antioch, a convert to Judaism.
Acts 13:43
When the congregation was dismissed, many of the Jews and devout converts to Judaism followed Paul and Barnabas, who talked with them and urged them to continue in the grace of God.
Acts 15:3
The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad.
Romans 16:5
Greet also the church that meets at their house. Greet my dear friend Epenetus, who was the first convert to Christ in the province of Asia.
1 Corinthians 16:15
You know that the household of Stephanas were the first converts in Achaia, and they have devoted themselves to the service of the Lord’s people. I urge you, brothers and sisters,
1 Timothy 3:6
He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil.
egyptianmuslim
New member
CR, muslims part of the covenant is to pray /worship to God only no any mediator, the part of God is to be with us in our daily life, and paradise will be the end reward.Please explain ,no need of biblical verses, the old covenant and the new covenant.
Was there any covenant before Moses(puh)?
Was there any covenant before Moses(puh)?
Ben Masada
New member
O yes, of course! The Abrahamic Covenant with the Jewish People through Isaac and Jacob. (Gen. 17:21) "Because in Isaac shall the seed of Abraham be called. (Gen. 21:12)" But don't worry! The invitation to join is still open to all Gentiles; and every one will get a name better than of sons and daughters. (Isaiah 56:1-8)
Ben Masada
New member
The Lord could not take any kind of form or image if you read Deut. 4:15,16. Please, a quote in the Tanach to the effect that the Lord took a form and said, "I change not." I hate to take people's word for it.
CherubRam
New member
CherubRam
New member
The first covenant that God made was that He would never again destroy the world with a flood. Messiah worship was added by the Catholics. Christ did not come to be worshiped by mankind. Christ is the mediator of the New Covenant. Where is this covenant of prayer in the Quran?
Both covenants are in effect. The "new" is more like an addendum to swallow up the "old", and that's what makes it new. You have only to read Deut. 28's list of curses to see that the law is still in effect. Sowing and reaping are still in effect.
Let's look at where Yeshua displayed the principal. The Pharisees accused Him of casting out demons (could be sicknesses, evil spirits as well) by an evil spirit, but not for the reason most think. The Pharisees were well aware of the fact from Deut. and other books that HaShem set up this as a part of the OT covenant curses. So in fact, what they were asking Him is by whose authority do you do these things (including healing the man on the Sabbath day), because we know this demon/sickness is a judgment established by HaShem for disobedience, and carried out by Satan. So since HaShem AUTHORIZED it; for You, Yeshua, to UNDO it, must mean it's an EVIL spirit in You, Yeshua, OPPOSING what we know by the LAW, is HaShem's judgment.
So Yeshua did answer perfectly, telling them that if He was casting out what SATAN had done, by SATAN, then SATAN'S kingdom would be divided and fall, because Satan's kingdom was given by HaShem, ie. to eat dust, the prince of this world, bringer of judgments.
But that He was casting them out by HaShem, meant that a new covenant was in fact about to come into place in the whole, and had already come into place in the part = Christ Yeshua, because HaShem's kingdom is NOT divided.
And so, the Pharisees asked Him by whose authority do you do these things, when He healed the man on the SABBATH day. Since John's baptism was a type of being baptized into His death (intended to bring repentance) which was a type of the OT covenant that concluded all under the covenant of death, ie. if you never came up out of that water of the letter of the law that killeth the result would be you'd give up the ghost = drown in the waters of judgment.
Which is why Peter was told (he who had the calling to the Jews/those under the letter of the law) to come out of the boat and walk ABOVE the letter of the law waters below the firmament, and walk in the proceeding Word/breath that comes from the Father's mouth.
So what they were asking Him there again was, by whose authority do you do these things, since we know HaShem has done this for judgment? And His answer there was also perfect in it's understanding. He turned the tables on them, and asked a seemingly unrelated (to us) question.....
"Mt 21:25 - The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men?"
And they reasoned with themselves, saying, "If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?"
And so, I say to you.......the baptism of John ie. the symbol of the judgments that HaShem ordained for those that continue to walk by the letter/water that are AUTHORIZED BY HaShem, and is being fulfilled STILL TO THIS DAY by Satan......whence was it? from heaven, or of men?
So the whole NT covenant with it's instructions about resisting the devil and he will flee, ect. are the unfolding of the finished plan of God, which runs SIDE BY SIDE (run the good race) in the framework of TIME, with the first covenant principles that are ONLY abolished with the death of the testator, as the testament is not in effect UNTIL the testator dies. So the first covenant which was made with our flesh concluding all under judgment, stays in effect as long as there is still flesh that needs to die, right along with the second covenant, till all is fulfilled.
Which is why He told John, who didn't want to baptize Him in water, to baptize Him because it is necessary that we fulfill ALL righteousness. And which is why spiritually speaking, we are told not to muzzle an ox (law) with a *** (Spirit), ie walking side by side. He as the covenant that is Spirit, came riding upon an ***, all beast of burden "ox" flesh had died.
Heb 10:9 - Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
The first is not going to disappear, God's Word stands, not a jot or tittle shall pass away of it, till all be fulfilled. Be ye reconciled. Blessings to all........
Let's look at where Yeshua displayed the principal. The Pharisees accused Him of casting out demons (could be sicknesses, evil spirits as well) by an evil spirit, but not for the reason most think. The Pharisees were well aware of the fact from Deut. and other books that HaShem set up this as a part of the OT covenant curses. So in fact, what they were asking Him is by whose authority do you do these things (including healing the man on the Sabbath day), because we know this demon/sickness is a judgment established by HaShem for disobedience, and carried out by Satan. So since HaShem AUTHORIZED it; for You, Yeshua, to UNDO it, must mean it's an EVIL spirit in You, Yeshua, OPPOSING what we know by the LAW, is HaShem's judgment.
So Yeshua did answer perfectly, telling them that if He was casting out what SATAN had done, by SATAN, then SATAN'S kingdom would be divided and fall, because Satan's kingdom was given by HaShem, ie. to eat dust, the prince of this world, bringer of judgments.
But that He was casting them out by HaShem, meant that a new covenant was in fact about to come into place in the whole, and had already come into place in the part = Christ Yeshua, because HaShem's kingdom is NOT divided.
And so, the Pharisees asked Him by whose authority do you do these things, when He healed the man on the SABBATH day. Since John's baptism was a type of being baptized into His death (intended to bring repentance) which was a type of the OT covenant that concluded all under the covenant of death, ie. if you never came up out of that water of the letter of the law that killeth the result would be you'd give up the ghost = drown in the waters of judgment.
Which is why Peter was told (he who had the calling to the Jews/those under the letter of the law) to come out of the boat and walk ABOVE the letter of the law waters below the firmament, and walk in the proceeding Word/breath that comes from the Father's mouth.
So what they were asking Him there again was, by whose authority do you do these things, since we know HaShem has done this for judgment? And His answer there was also perfect in it's understanding. He turned the tables on them, and asked a seemingly unrelated (to us) question.....
"Mt 21:25 - The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men?"
And they reasoned with themselves, saying, "If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?"
And so, I say to you.......the baptism of John ie. the symbol of the judgments that HaShem ordained for those that continue to walk by the letter/water that are AUTHORIZED BY HaShem, and is being fulfilled STILL TO THIS DAY by Satan......whence was it? from heaven, or of men?
So the whole NT covenant with it's instructions about resisting the devil and he will flee, ect. are the unfolding of the finished plan of God, which runs SIDE BY SIDE (run the good race) in the framework of TIME, with the first covenant principles that are ONLY abolished with the death of the testator, as the testament is not in effect UNTIL the testator dies. So the first covenant which was made with our flesh concluding all under judgment, stays in effect as long as there is still flesh that needs to die, right along with the second covenant, till all is fulfilled.
Which is why He told John, who didn't want to baptize Him in water, to baptize Him because it is necessary that we fulfill ALL righteousness. And which is why spiritually speaking, we are told not to muzzle an ox (law) with a *** (Spirit), ie walking side by side. He as the covenant that is Spirit, came riding upon an ***, all beast of burden "ox" flesh had died.
Heb 10:9 - Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
The first is not going to disappear, God's Word stands, not a jot or tittle shall pass away of it, till all be fulfilled. Be ye reconciled. Blessings to all........
Ben Masada
New member
God Evolved!!!
God Evolved!!!
We didn't and that's the reason why, God has no form or image.Read this:
Impersonation of God's Attributes - Genesis 1:26
"Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. Let them have dominion over... the whole earth."
The above passage of Genesis has been for years the trump card in the hands of Trinitarians to drop at the right time in the assumed thought that it will guarantee them to clean up the table, so to speak. Well, let them think again, because I have news. It's no longer that easy.
Elohim is incorporeal, and incorporeality reflects no image. But then again, how to harmonize the use of the pronouns in the plural form? The attributes of God, which are parts of His essence, were personally involved in the formation of man.
Bear in mind that only in the creation of man was the statement issued: To make man at God's image. Since God has no visible image, and man does, it's only obvious that man's image would be according to God's attributes. Therefore, His attributes in a relative portion, were the active agent in the formation of man.
Now, it's imperative to focus on the pronouns used by the sacred writer, since the pronouns are anyways what Trinitarians use to think they have made their day. "Let US make MAN in OUR image and likeness. And let THEM have dominion over everything on earth."
Now, focus on the word MAN. It is in the singular form. Nevertheless, the purpose is for THEM to dominate the earth. If THEM were a reference to man, a clarification would be in order to explain the discrepancy in the Grammar. I mean, that it would be a reference to all men. This lack of clarification was not a lapse of the author, but intentional will to direct our minds to the attributes of God, which took part in the formation of man.
It's interesting and just convenient for Trinitarians to rapidly refer "us" and "our" to God Himself and hide any word of explanation on the plural pronoun "them," which could not be a reference to man. I hope they do not do this on purpose because it would be spiritual cruelty to hide the truth.
I hope we have settled this issue. Since "them" is not a reference to man but to the attributes of God, it's only obvious that "us" and "our" are not references to God Himself but to His attributes. Therefore, the Creator of the Universe is He Who has dominion over the whole of the Universe through man by way of His attributes.
Conclusion:
It's more than obvious that Israel could not uphold the banner of absolute Monotheism in God, and start the Scriptures with statements of plurality in God. The whole issue therefore, was personification of attributes.
God Evolved!!!
We didn't and that's the reason why, God has no form or image.Read this:
Impersonation of God's Attributes - Genesis 1:26
"Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. Let them have dominion over... the whole earth."
The above passage of Genesis has been for years the trump card in the hands of Trinitarians to drop at the right time in the assumed thought that it will guarantee them to clean up the table, so to speak. Well, let them think again, because I have news. It's no longer that easy.
Elohim is incorporeal, and incorporeality reflects no image. But then again, how to harmonize the use of the pronouns in the plural form? The attributes of God, which are parts of His essence, were personally involved in the formation of man.
Bear in mind that only in the creation of man was the statement issued: To make man at God's image. Since God has no visible image, and man does, it's only obvious that man's image would be according to God's attributes. Therefore, His attributes in a relative portion, were the active agent in the formation of man.
Now, it's imperative to focus on the pronouns used by the sacred writer, since the pronouns are anyways what Trinitarians use to think they have made their day. "Let US make MAN in OUR image and likeness. And let THEM have dominion over everything on earth."
Now, focus on the word MAN. It is in the singular form. Nevertheless, the purpose is for THEM to dominate the earth. If THEM were a reference to man, a clarification would be in order to explain the discrepancy in the Grammar. I mean, that it would be a reference to all men. This lack of clarification was not a lapse of the author, but intentional will to direct our minds to the attributes of God, which took part in the formation of man.
It's interesting and just convenient for Trinitarians to rapidly refer "us" and "our" to God Himself and hide any word of explanation on the plural pronoun "them," which could not be a reference to man. I hope they do not do this on purpose because it would be spiritual cruelty to hide the truth.
I hope we have settled this issue. Since "them" is not a reference to man but to the attributes of God, it's only obvious that "us" and "our" are not references to God Himself but to His attributes. Therefore, the Creator of the Universe is He Who has dominion over the whole of the Universe through man by way of His attributes.
Conclusion:
It's more than obvious that Israel could not uphold the banner of absolute Monotheism in God, and start the Scriptures with statements of plurality in God. The whole issue therefore, was personification of attributes.
CherubRam
New member
Genesis 1:26,27
God said, making man in (our / their) image and likeness. "Let him dominate the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the livestock animals, and all the earth, and every land animal that walks the earth." 27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
"Let us" is AIT. It is not in scriptures.
Apple of the eye
Deuteronomy 32:10
In a desert land he found him, in a barren and howling waste. He shielded him and cared for him; he guarded him as the apple of his eye,
Psalm 17:8
Keep me as the apple of your eye; hide me in the shadow of your wings
Proverbs 7:2
Keep my commands and you will live; guard my teachings as the apple of (your / my) eye.
Zechariah 2:8
For this is what the Lord Almighty says: “After the Glorious One has sent me against the nations that have plundered you—for whoever touches you touches the apple of (his / my) eye—
The original Hebrew for this idiom, in all but Zechariah 2:8, is 'iyshown 'ayin (אישון עין), and can be literally translated as "Little Man of the Eye." This is a reference to the tiny reflection of a person that can be seen in other people's pupils.
Basically it means "you are the image or reflection of me."
egyptianmuslim
New member
there are more than 50 verses like this:
2|277|Lo! those who believe and do good works and establish worship and pay the poor due, their reward is with their Lord and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.................It is the covenant of God to all human
CherubRam
New member
The Sabbath and moral commands remain, but everything else is done away with.
Hebrews 8:13
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
CherubRam
New member
I do not see the word "COVENANT" being used in the Quran.
CherubRam
New member
All I see is that there is a covenant between God and the Christians and Jews.
"And when Allah made a covenant with those who were given the Book[Hebrew scriptures]: You shall certainly make it known to men and you shall not hide it; but they cast it behind their backs and took a small price for it; so evil is that which they buy." (Koran 3:187)
egyptianmuslim
New member
The covenant is the commandments of God to human the 1st one was to Adam.
It is of two parts......Part of God and part of human..... Do and I will do.
It is known that Jews should do the law and this is their part of the covenant.
What is the part of christian?
It is of two parts......Part of God and part of human..... Do and I will do.
It is known that Jews should do the law and this is their part of the covenant.
What is the part of christian?
CherubRam
New member
The Old Covenant of Circumcision was revoked by God, and a New Covenant was established in 33 AD. The New Covenant consist of keeping the Moral commands of God, the Sabbath, and be baptized in Christ name. I just got done studying the Koran about the covenants, and it seems that Mohammad neglected to include a covenant for Muslims. Muslims and Jews can not be included in a Covenant of Circumcision, because that covenant was revoked in 70 AD. Again, the Old Testament says that God would revoke the Old Covenant and establish another covenant. Therefore Muslims are living under no covenant with God. Well, that is what happens when you follow Mohammad and his made up religion.
Again: The New Covenant was established in 33 AD, and the Old Covenant was revoked in 70 AD. 40 years had passed when Christ began his preaching in 30 AD, to the destruction of the temple in 70 AD.
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Nonsense. Since when did He have to give His attributes dominion? You can't seriously believe this argument you parroted from someone else.
Man there is singular because it's in thought like the word mankind. So mankind becomes the them in the next statement. Peace
So you concluded after reading Deut. 28 that neither you, nor anyone in your bloodline, has experienced any of the curses, eh? Peace
CherubRam
New member
I do not know what point you are trying to make.
The point I'm trying to make is that if you read it, there is no way you or family members have not experienced some of the curses.
It is not about the NATURAL foundation as in one outwardly observed now, that is the pattern that the new was formed from, but it IS the Spiritual one, which is why if you were born again, you celebrated and fulfilled a OT feast (Passover), and if you were baptized into His Spirit you celebrated and fulfilled another OT feast (Pentecost), and if you are still pressing in will eventually celebrate Tabernacles in the Spiritual realm as well. Which is why Yesuah speaking what the SPIRIT would have Him to speak, said I come not to destroy the law but to fulfill it. God never did away with the OT, He just knew it was impossible to fulfill the law, independent of the Spirit, ie. the Spirit comes to perform the Word.
Doing away with the OT covenant is like doing away with the bones of Yeshua, and then expecting the Spirit of God to raise Him up anyway. It won't happen, He won't give His glory to another image, and the Word (He was THAT Word, the OT made flesh) is that image.
This is why it was said that all they (the natural Jews) went through was for our example. The 2 covenants run side by side, in the framework of time. Peace
It is not about the NATURAL foundation as in one outwardly observed now, that is the pattern that the new was formed from, but it IS the Spiritual one, which is why if you were born again, you celebrated and fulfilled a OT feast (Passover), and if you were baptized into His Spirit you celebrated and fulfilled another OT feast (Pentecost), and if you are still pressing in will eventually celebrate Tabernacles in the Spiritual realm as well. Which is why Yesuah speaking what the SPIRIT would have Him to speak, said I come not to destroy the law but to fulfill it. God never did away with the OT, He just knew it was impossible to fulfill the law, independent of the Spirit, ie. the Spirit comes to perform the Word.
Doing away with the OT covenant is like doing away with the bones of Yeshua, and then expecting the Spirit of God to raise Him up anyway. It won't happen, He won't give His glory to another image, and the Word (He was THAT Word, the OT made flesh) is that image.
This is why it was said that all they (the natural Jews) went through was for our example. The 2 covenants run side by side, in the framework of time. Peace