ECT Does what we do reflect what we believe?

patrick jane

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Glorydaz, doser and me would all agree with John and Tam that no sin,including murder, can remove someone from the body of Christ. We are saying the likelihood that any true Christian would murder is very unlikely.... .00001% likely.

So, your intent to drive a wedge within the body of Christ failed miserably despite your best effort.

Are you a dispensationalist now too ?
 

elohiym

Well-known member
You added ...

So, your intent to drive a wedge within the body of Christ failed miserably despite your best effort.

Not my intent. The truth divides people.

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household."
 

genuineoriginal

New member
John W says he could do any number of things and still be justified.

If I were a bird, I could fly, but I'm not a bird. :)


1 John 3:9
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.​

What makes you think rape is not a sin when it is done by a Christian?
 

elohiym

Well-known member
  • David was given the Holy Spirit before he committed adultery.
  • David prayed to not have the Holy Spirit taken from him after he committed adultery.
  • David was forgiven by God for adultery and spared the consequence under the law.
  • David never turned aside from anything God commanded him after he repented.

In light of those facts, it's reasonable to say the Holy Spirit didn't prevent David from committing adultery; but how do you explain him keep the law after that?

Was the cause of his reform the Holy Spirit that was renewed in him, or his own efforts to keep the Mosaic laws, or both?

Yes, the Spirit was always with David.
1 Samuel 16 KJV
(13) Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.​

And yes, he committed murder and adultery while he had the Spirit.


As to what caused him to keep the law, I'm sure it was a combination of things, the Spirit included.
He also had the law; a check list for him to follow.
Don't commit adultery (any more), CHECK.
Don't murder (any more), CHECK.

Romans 8:7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so.


But we also know that keeping the law is not what saves a person.
The rich young ruler was also said to have kept the law, but it didn't guarantee him eternal life.
So even if it was only the Spirit that made him keep the law, it did not save him.
Because the law is not of faith, and that by the works of the law will no flesh be justified.
The just shall live by faith.

How could we be sure if it was only the Spirit that caused him to keep the law? I think Romans 8:7 shows it had to be solely the Spirit that kept Him from transgressing.

Assuming that's the case, why can't a person in this dispensation do what David did (never turn aside again), especially when that person isn't burdened under the Mosaic ordinances?
 

patrick jane

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Can we let everyone speak for themselves, please?

I know, he's defending his new good friends that his beliefs align with so much.


Originally Posted by ClimateSanity View Post
Glorydaz, doser and me would all agree with John and Tam that no sin,including murder, can remove someone from the body of Christ. We are saying the likelihood that any true Christian would murder is very unlikely.... .00001% likely.

So, your intent to drive a wedge within the body of Christ failed miserably despite your best effort.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Romans 8:7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so.




How could we be sure if it was only the Spirit that caused him to keep the law? I think Romans 8:7 shows it had to be solely the Spirit that kept Him from transgressing.

Assuming that's the case, why can't a person in this dispensation do what David did (never turn aside again), especially when that person isn't burdened under the Mosaic ordinances?

David was blameless under the law....as Paul was before he got saved. Never turning aside from his religious duties and worship. That is the same "touching the righteous WHICH IS IN THE LAW" that Saul was keeping before he met the Lord on the road to Damascus.

Philippians 3:6
Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.​
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
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1 John 3:9
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.​

What makes you think rape is not a sin when it is done by a Christian?

All you did was prove the new covenant is not in effect. Coveting is sin and people covet. The body is dead because of sin.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
What makes you think a Christian would rape anyone?
I don't.
I agree with these statements:
if you rape a woman today, you're not a Christian

followers of Christ don't rape women
My comment was directed at this statement that you made.
John W says he could do any number of things and still be justified.
Do you agree with that statement?

Paul said this:

Galatians 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.​

Is it your belief that a person calling himself a Christian can do all of these things and still inherent the kingdom of God?
 

elohiym

Well-known member
What makes you think a Christian would rape anyone?

If true, this:

Glorydaz, doser and me ... We are saying the likelihood that any true Christian would [rape] is ... .00001% likely.

But that's different than:

If I were a bird, I could fly, but I'm not a bird. :)

If you were claiming what ClimateSanity is claiming above then even though you are not a bird it is still .0001% likely you will fly ... just suddenly take off and fly. However, what I hear you saying instead is that there is .0% chance you will fly if you are not a bird. The old man was a bird. Now you're a new creature that doesn't fly. Correct me if I'm misunderstanding you.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
The Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ are the same Spirit of the One God.

God sent his Son not to judge the world but that through him the world might be saved based on each person receiving the Holy Spirit.

No Spirit, no eternal life.
 

Nihilo

BANNED
Banned
How can we know a tree by its fruit?
Thérèse Of Lisieux wrote, and the Holy See quotes in the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
If the Church was a body composed of different members, it couldn't lack the noblest of all; it must have a Heart, and a Heart BURNING WITH LOVE. And I realized that this love alone was the true motive force which enabled the other members of the Church to act; if it ceased to function, the Apostles would forget to preach the gospel, the Martyrs would refuse to shed their blood. LOVE, IN FACT, IS THE VOCATION WHICH INCLUDES ALL OTHERS; IT'S A UNIVERSE OF ITS OWN, COMPRISING ALL TIME AND SPACE - IT'S ETERNAL!​
I really, really like it.

The popes' book continues:
Christ, holy, innocent, and undefiled, knew nothing of sin, but came only to expiate the sins of the people. The Church, however, clasping sinners to her bosom, at once holy and always in need of purification, follows constantly the path of penance and renewal. All members of the Church, including her ministers, must acknowledge that they are sinners. In everyone, the weeds of sin will still be mixed with the good wheat of the Gospel until the end of time. Hence the Church gathers sinners already caught up in Christ's salvation but still on the way to holiness:
The Church is therefore holy, though having sinners in her midst, because she herself has no other life but the life of grace. If they live her life, her members are sanctified; if they move away from her life, they fall into sins and disorders that prevent the radiation of her sanctity. This is why she suffers and does penance for those offenses, of which she has the power to free her children through the blood of Christ and the gift of the Holy Spirit.​
Peace.
 
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