ECT CATHOLIC VS PROTESTANT BIBLICAL INTERPRETATION

Cruciform

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So God can only endow those humans selected by the humans in your sect? Does God know this?
Christ has chosen to endow with ecclesial authority only those successors of the apostles (i.e., bishops) who are the leaders of Christ's one historic Catholic Church---just as he did in the 1st-century Apostolic Church. Do you disagree with God's choice?
 

Cruciform

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He also wont admit that there is not such word to translate as "Bishop" in the Greek or Hebrew.The fact that presbyter is sometimes translated as Bishop in their bibles (and the Anglican produced versions) was strictly to bolster their political power.
Sure, 'cause HS is a Greek scholar, isn't he. Try again.
 

CabinetMaker

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Christ has chosen to endow with ecclesial authority only those successors of the apostles (i.e., bishops) who are the leaders of Christ's one historic Catholic Church---just as he did in the 1st-century Apostolic Church. Do you disagree with God's choice?
I'm asking if God knows that He can't endow anybody who hasn't first been chosen by your men.

Also, if a bishop from your church lays their hands on somebody, is that new person so endowed? Can they also pass on that endowment? If they lay hands on a non-Catholic or somebody who walks away from Catholicism, are they endowed?
 

Cruciform

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I'm asking if God knows that He can't endow anybody who hasn't first been chosen by your men.
He has chosen not to endow with authority one whom he has not also chosen by means of his Church's Magisterium---the other endowed men whom God has chosen in succession from the apostles to the present day.

Also, if a bishop from your church lays their hands on somebody, is that new person so endowed? Can they also pass on that endowment? If they lay hands on a non-Catholic or somebody who walks away from Catholicism, are they endowed?
No, since the bishop must also have the approval and sanction of his fellow bishops (Magisterium), and particularly of the Pope. It is the Church which possesses the authority, not merely one individual bishop.
 

CabinetMaker

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He has chosen not to endow with authority one whom he has not also chosen by means of his Church's Magisterium---the other endowed men whom God has chosen in succession from the apostles to the present day.

Are you sure? I see nothing in scripture that says God cannot endow who He wills.

No, since the bishop must also have the approval and sanction of his fellow bishops (Magisterium), and particularly of the Pope. It is the Church which possesses the authority, not merely one individual bishop.

Wow! I never knew that God had such limitations placed on Him by His subjects! I guess that's why you could appoint Mary as God's Mother.

As God is sovereign, not the RCC, God can and does endow whom He wishes. There are Protestant ministers that are no less endowed than Catholics who may also be endowed by God for God's purpose. That is why Paul was chosen, because those originally chosen by Christ refused to do what Jesus wanted them to do. God can, and does, send correction to the church when correction is needed. Think Luther.
 

Cruciform

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Are you sure? I see nothing in scripture that says God cannot endow who He wills.
Your repeated use of the word "cannot" is merely a Straw Man Fallacy on your part. The simple fact is that God has chosen to do things a certain way---after all, as you admit, "God can endow who he wills," right? And he wills to endow the bishops (Magisterium)---and not laymen like you and I---with his own power and authority. God's choice, whether it fits your high opinion of yourself or not.

Wow! I never knew that God had such limitations placed on Him by His subjects!
Just another expression of your prior Straw Man Fallacy (see above).

There are Protestant ministers that are no less endowed than Catholics who may also be endowed by God for God's purpose.
Why---because they say so? No, only those who have been ordained and appointed by Christ's one historic Church (i.e., the Magisterium) can rightly consider themselves endowed with Christ's own ecclesial authority. That's just the way in which God has chosen to govern his Church. Sorry if this pokes a few holes in your self-styled religious identity.

That is why Paul was chosen, because those originally chosen by Christ refused to do what Jesus wanted them to do.
Like yourself, I have no idea what you're talking about here. Example?

God can, and does, send correction to the church when correction is needed.
Correction of individuals comes by means of the bishops of Christ's one historic Church, just as it came through the apostles (i.e., the original Magisterium) in the 1st century.

Think Luther.
Luther was not a bishop of Christ's Church, and thus possessed absolutely no divine authority whatsoever to try and replace the Church's established teachings with his own entirely non-authoritative interpretations and opinions. Your example here only serves to prove my point.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 

TulipBee

BANNED
Banned
Protestants do have general councils. Offsprings can mean a lot of things. The holy spirit also moves Protestants as well. We don't need a billion dollar building to prove it. A tent will do
 

Cruciform

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Well, if you consider them scholars, you have a very low requirements for them. Were their diplomas mail order?
Feel free to actually disprove the content of the source I provided (and note that mere disagreement does not equate to "proof").
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
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Your repeated use of the word "cannot" is merely a Straw Man Fallacy on your part. The simple fact is that God has chosen to do things a certain way---after all, as you admit, "God can endow who he wills," right? And he wills to endow the bishops (Magisterium)---and not laymen like you and I---with his own power and authority. God's choice, whether it fits your high opinion of yourself or not.


Just another expression of your prior Straw Man Fallacy (see above).


Why---because they say so? No, only those who have been ordained and appointed by Christ's one historic Church (i.e., the Magisterium) can rightly consider themselves endowed with Christ's own ecclesial authority. That's just the way in which God has chosen to govern his Church. Sorry if this pokes a few holes in your self-styled religious identity.


Like yourself, I have no idea what you're talking about here. Example?


Correction of individuals comes by means of the bishops of Christ's one historic Church, just as it came through the apostles (i.e., the original Magisterium) in the 1st century.


Luther was not a bishop of Christ's Church, and thus possessed absolutely no divine authority whatsoever to try and replace the Church's established teachings with his own entirely non-authoritative interpretations and opinions. Your example here only serves to prove my point.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+


I can't help to observe that if God were really endowing the Bishops of the RCC that there would never have been crusades and inquisitions and indulgences and prayers to Mary and Queen Mary and so much more. God sent His Son to redeem creation, not the RCC. God's Son taught us all that we need to be saved and to love and serve God.
 

Cruciform

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I can't help to observe that if God were really endowing the Bishops of the RCC that there would never have been crusades and inquisitions...
Why wouldn't there have been? Human beings are inherently political and social creatures who often commit sins, and this certainly includes Christians. Note also that both capital punishment and religious warfare take place in the Bible itself.

...and indulgences and prayers to Mary and Queen Mary...
Both are entirely in line with Divine Revelation, and have been believed and taught by Christ's one historic Church virtually from the beginning.

God sent His Son to redeem creation, not the RCC.
Jesus Christ himself directly equated himself (Head) with his Church (Body), and identified the Church's teachings with his very own---they are one and the same infallible body of truth (Lk. 10:16; 1 Tim. 3:15). Sorry for your confusion.

God's Son taught us all that we need to be saved and to love and serve God.
Yes, and he did so specifically by means of the authoritative teachings of his one historic Church (Mt. 16:18-19/ Is. 22:22; Mt. 28:18-20; Lk. 10:16; Ac. 15:2; 16:4; 2 Thess. 2:15; 3:4; 1 Tim. 3:15; 1 Jn. 4:6). See just above.
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
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Why wouldn't there have been? Human beings are inherently political and social creatures who often commit sins, and this certainly includes Christians. Note also that both capital punishment and religious warfare take place in the Bible itself.
God is not. God is perfectly Just. Some much of RCC doctrine caters to the human creature and not to God.


Both are entirely in line with Divine Revelation, and have been believed and taught by Christ's one historic Church virtually from the beginning.
Both are completely outside Divine revelation and lie entirely within in the wisdom (folly) of men.


Jesus Christ himself directly equated himself (Head) with his Church (Body), and identified the Church's teachings with his very own---they are one and the same infallible body of truth (Lk. 10:16; 1 Tim. 3:15). Sorry for your confusion.
There is no confusion. Jesus is the Head of the Christian faith of which RCC is but one sect. Jesus's church is not exclusive as you would have it be, Hos church is inclusive all who call Him Lord and Savior. Sorry for your loss.


Yes, and he did so specifically by means of the authoritative teachings of his one historic Church (Mt. 16:18-19/ Is. 22:22; Mt. 28:18-20; Lk. 10:16; Ac. 15:2; 16:4; 2 Thess. 2:15; 3:4; 1 Tim. 3:15; 1 Jn. 4:6). See just above.
Which the Roman church promptly corrupted for their own political advantage.
 

Cruciform

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God is not. God is perfectly Just.
And yet, God chooses to work his purposes in and through imperfect human agents and agencies, most particularly through the bishops (Magisterium) of Christ's one historic Church. If you ever locate a group of human beings who are sinless, let me know. Until then, it should be no surprise to any believer that certain leaders in God's infallible Church sometimes fall into sin and engage in moral and practical error.

Both are completely outside Divine revelation and lie entirely within in the wisdom (folly) of men.
...according to the entirely non-authoritative opinions of your chosen recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect, anyway. And, once again, we're back to the question of doctrinal (teaching) authority, which the Catholic Magisterium possesses (Mt. 16:18-19/Is. 22:22; Mt. 28:18-20; Lk. 10:16; Ac. 15:2; 16:4; 2 Thess. 2:15; 3:4; 1 Tim. 3:15; 1 Jn. 4:6), and which your entirely fabricated Protestant sect decidedly does not.

There is no confusion.
There is nothing but confusion on your part, which is evidenced in the almost pathological habit you have of profoundly misrepresenting Catholic teaching and practice (i.e., engaging in the Straw Man Fallacy). Every single time you engage in a Straw man Fallacy, you provide evidence of your own deep doctrinal confusion.

Jesus is the Head of the Christian faith...
Amen.

...of which CC is but one sect.
Now go ahead and actually historically document your claim with in-context quotations from the writings of the early Christian Church from the 1st through the 6th centuries. If you're right, it should be clearly reflected in the beliefs and teachings of the early Christian Church. So let's have it. Post your proof, please.

Which the Roman church promptly corrupted for their own political advantage.
Impossible, given that Jesus Christ, the Divine Son of God, declared that it could never happen (Mt. 16:18-19; cf. 1 Tim. 3:15). Unless you wish to claim here that the Lord was either mistaken or lying (Prov. 19:5) in his unqualified declaration...? No? Then your claim is patently false.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 
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iamaberean

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CATHOLIC VS PROTESTANT BIBLICAL INTERPRETATION?


They are different in many ways, but both do away with God's truth.

How is that? They make a doctrine that can not be changed, hense they stop knowledge of God because they accept their doctrine over the Word of God.
 

Cruciform

New member
NOTE: CM has had plenty of time to respond to Post #135 above in which his claims are categorically refuted and his position is systematically dismantled both biblically and historically. I've bumped the thread twice in order to give him time to reply, and he's chosen to simply walk away from the discussion in the hopes that readers here will simply forget about his failure to defend his anti-Catholic position on this thread. That way, he can try to re-use these already-refuted pseudo-arguments at a later time on another thread, and hope that people here won't remember the collapse of his position on this one. He's abandoned several previous threads in the same manner---he's refuted, has painted himself in to a corner, and so simply bails out of the discussion in defeat. Let this thread be noted by TOL readers, and remembered in the future when CM tries to fly his same opinions on other threads, as he most certainly will.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 
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