ECT CATHOLIC VS PROTESTANT BIBLICAL INTERPRETATION

whatever67

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Of course it's a rational proposition as a comment regarding the practices and doctrines of the RCC is not a statement of faith. Faith in Christ, in who and what He is and what He accomplished for me is the Faith I am talking about. ?

why do a lot of noncatholics seem to think that the practices of the Catholic Church are--what? evil? I mean, i just don't get that. If a "ritual" is done to give power to Satan, then you have a problem. But if a ritual is done in love for Jesus

? You know, maybe ritual is not just always and everywhere "evil"
 

CabinetMaker

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not true

in the bk of Peter there is a passage that says soemthing to the effect that no Scirpture is up for private interpretation

Hence my comment to get on your knees. Said a tad differently, who is best to interpret scripture, another man or God?
 

CabinetMaker

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why do a lot of noncatholics seem to think that the practices of the Catholic Church are--what? evil? I mean, i just don't get that. If a "ritual" is done to give power to Satan, then you have a problem. But if a ritual is done in love for Jesus
Do you know how many Catholics I personally have heard witness for Christ in my life? None. This is not to say they are not out there, I just have never met any of them. Every Catholic I have met has been gung-ho about how wonderful their church is, how nothing is possible without Mary, how praying to the dearly departed is so beneficial but never about surrendering to Jesus.

? You know, maybe ritual is not just always and everywhere "evil"
I know. But then again:
[h=1]Matthew 6:5New International Version (NIV)[/h] [h=3]Prayer[/h]5 And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.

 

Cruciform

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[W]ho is best to interpret scripture, another man or God?
Who is best to interpret Scripture: [1] Christ's one historic Church which he himself founded and endowed with his own power and authority (Mt. 28:18-20; Lk. 10:16; Ac. 16:4; 2 Thess. 2:15; 3:4; 1 Tim. 3:15; 1 Jn. 4:6)---and which by the Holy Spirit produced and canonized the Scriptures themselves---or [2] every individual lay believer like CM, each privately interpreting the Bible according to his preferred merely man-made, recently-invented sect?
 

CabinetMaker

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Who is best to interpret Scripture: [1] Christ's one historic Church which he himself founded and endowed with his own power and authority (Mt. 28:18-20; Lk. 10:16; Ac. 16:4; 2 Thess. 2:15; 3:4; 1 Tim. 3:15; 1 Jn. 4:6)---and which by the Holy Spirit produced and canonized the Scriptures themselves---or [2] every individual lay believer like CM, each privately interpreting the Bible according to his preferred merely man-made, recently-invented sect?
Both are men. Still no mention of prayer on your part.
 

Cruciform

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Both are men.
Yes. On one hand, [1] the apostles and bishops (Magisterium) of Christ's one historic Church who have been endowed by Christ with his own spiritual power and doctrinal authority, and on the other hand [2] individual lay believers (and sects) who possess no binding authority in the church whatsoever, and whose claims can never be raised above the level of mere human opinion.

Still no mention of prayer on your part.
The bishops spend a great deal of time in prayer regarding the teachings which they deliver to the faithful, just as did the apostles before them.
 

Cruciform

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He has never proven factually that the RCC is Christ's historical church...
You're daft. It has been proven numerous times by both myself and other Catholics on this forum. Your unwillingness to affirm the facts of Church history---or perhaps your simple inability to mentally grasp those facts---is another matter entirely.
 

CabinetMaker

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Yes. On one hand, [1] the apostles and bishops (Magisterium) of Christ's one historic Church who have been endowed by Christ with his own spiritual power and doctrinal authority, and on the other hand [2] individual lay believers (and sects) who possess no binding authority in the church whatsoever, and whose claims can never be raised above the level of mere human opinion.


The bishops spend a great deal of time in prayer regarding the teachings which they deliver to the faithful, just as did the apostles before them.
That's a whole lot of justification to say you want to rely on men. Your choice.
 

Cruciform

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That's a whole lot of justification to say you want to rely on men.
No more than you do. The difference is that I rely on the God-endowed Magisterium of Christ's one historic Church for divine doctrine, while you rely on the mere men who invented your preferred Protestant sect and who possess no more authority to formulate Christian doctrine than you do (which is none whatsoever).

Your choice.
And yours.
 

CabinetMaker

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No more than you do. The difference is that I rely on the God-endowed Magisterium of Christ's one historic Church for divine doctrine, while you rely on the mere men who invented your preferred Protestant sect and who possess no more authority to formulate Christian doctrine than you do (which is none whatsoever).


And yours.
Your magisterium is comprised of humans, correct?
 

HisServant

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You're daft. It has been proven numerous times by both myself and other Catholics on this forum. Your unwillingness to affirm the facts of Church history---or perhaps your simple inability to mentally grasp those facts---is another matter entirely.

I've driven tractor trailers through your supposed proofs! Yet you refuse to accept it... are you that really brainwashed?

Besides the fact that there was no central church nor central authority in Rome as proven by ancient writings and archaeology... you have no proof that Peter passed on his non-existent office.

Your proof is based on the absence of any concrete evidence whatsoever.
 

Cruciform

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Your magisterium is comprised of humans, correct?
Yes, in the very same way that the Apostolic College was composed of humans, that is, men who had been specifically endowed by Jesus Christ to guide and teach the faithful in his own name and by his very authority (Mt. 16:18-19/Is. 22:22; Mt. 28:18-20; Lk. 10:16; Ac. 15:2; 16:4; 2 Thess. 2:15; 3:4; 1 Tim. 3:15; 1 Jn. 4:6).

Also, note that the members of the Magisterium are ordained leaders in the very Church that Jesus himself founded in 33 A.D., and against which he declared that the gates of Hades would never prevail (Mt. 16:18). The men who invented your favored non-Catholic sect have no connection to Christ's one historic Church whatsoever.
 

CabinetMaker

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Yes, in the very same way that the Apostolic College was composed of humans, that is, men who had been specifically endowed by Jesus Christ to guide and teach the faithful in his own name and by his very authority (Mt. 16:18-19/Is. 22:22; Mt. 28:18-20; Lk. 10:16; Ac. 15:2; 16:4; 2 Thess. 2:15; 3:4; 1 Tim. 3:15; 1 Jn. 4:6).

Also, note that the members of the Magisterium are ordained leaders in the very Church that Jesus himself founded in 33 A.D., and against which he declared that the gates of Hades would never prevail (Mt. 16:18). The men who invented your favored non-Catholic sect have no connection to Christ's one historic Church whatsoever.

So humans can be endowed by God correct?
 

HisServant

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Name even one.

1.) No evidence Peter passed his office to anyone.

2.) Archaeology proves there was no central church in Rome.. there were multiples, separated by ethnicity that had their own graveyards and churches... writings as far as doctrine differ between them and there is no record of them appealing to a higher authority.

3.) Your churches supposed line of Popes can easily proven to be fabricated, and they differ between ancient authors.

4.) Paul, the most prolific author in Rome, never mentions Peter, even once.

And I could go on.

You believe the product of a carefully scripted rewrite of history that current archaeological evident proves to be in error.

And the #1 reason, is your churches doctrine (even very early on) is in opposition to Jesus and the original Apostles teachings in many areas, yet you refuse to admit it and chalk it up to doctrinal development and tradition pulled out of your hind quarters.
 

CabinetMaker

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In a New Testament context, it was solely the apostles and bishops (Magisterium) who were endowed by Christ with his own power and authority. Lay believers were not so endowed.

So God can only endow those humans selected by the humans in your sect? Does God know this?
 

HisServant

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So God can only endow those humans selected by the humans in your sect? Does God know this?

He also wont admit that there is not such word to translate as "Bishop" in the Greek or Hebrew.

The fact that presbyter is sometimes translated as Bishop in their bibles (and the Anglican produced versions) was strictly to bolster their political power.
 

Cruciform

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1.) No evidence Peter passed his office to anyone.
Nonsense. The early Church Fathers---including those who were personal disciples of the apostles---testify unanimously to the historical fact of Papal Succession. Try again.

2.) Archaeology proves there was no central church in Rome.. there were multiples, separated by ethnicity that had their own graveyards and churches... writings as far as doctrine differ between them and there is no record of them appealing to a higher authority.
Now go ahead and actually document your claim from qualified ecclesiastical historians. Proof, please.

3.) Your churches supposed line of Popes can easily proven to be fabricated, and they differ between ancient authors.
Again: Post your proof.

4.) Paul, the most prolific author in Rome, never mentions Peter, even once.
Once again, your ignorance shines through, since Paul mentions Peter half-a-dozen times in the epistle to the Galatians alone. In any case, Peter speaks for himself in the book of Acts and in his (Peter's) canonical epistles. Try again.

You believe the product of a carefully scripted rewrite of history that current archaeological evident proves to be in error.
This and your other wholly unsubstantiated assertions in this post are noted. Still waiting for actual proof.

And the #1 reason, is your churches doctrine (even very early on) is in opposition to Jesus and the original Apostles teachings in many areas...
Rather, Catholic teaching often opposes the entirely non-authoritative opinions of your chosen recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect, which is another matter entirely from disagreeing with "Jesus and the apostles." Big difference there. Try again.


So much for your so-called "proof" against Catholicism. :yawn:



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 
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