glorydaz
Well-known member
Cool, you can quote from Paul. That's a step in the right direction.
Beloved57 are you sure you’re chosen?
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glorydaz
Well-known member
You don't understand the scripture.
I agree with you. I had a thread a while back about this. It was intended to hash out what doctrines must be minimally believed in order for a person to be saved. It ended up landing on the following six points...
- God exists and is the Creator of all things and He is perfect, holy, and just.
- We, having willfully done evil things and rebelled against God, who gave us life, deserve death.
- Because God loves us, He provided for Himself a propitiation (an atoning sacrifice) by becoming a man whom we call Jesus Christ.
- Jesus, being the Creator God Himself and therefore innocent of any sin, willingly bore the sins of the world and died on our behalf.
- Jesus rose from the dead.
- If you confess with you mouth, the Lord Jesus Christ (i.e. openly acknowledge your need of a savior and that He is that Savior) and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, YOU WILL BE SAVED.
I believe that if a person believes those six things, they are saved, regardless of whatever "other strange beliefs they might have fallen for", as you put it.
Here's a link the thread if you'd like to read through the discussion...
The Gospel Proper
Clete
Amen, and I have taken his exhortation to heart, and quit committing sin.
Have you taken that "step" in the right direction?
I understand Paul's teaching about the Gentiles being grafted onto the Jewish olive tree. (Rom 11:17, 19, 23-24)
No we were not grafted into the Jews (i.e. Israel). Israel was cut off. How could we have been crafted into a branch that had been removed?
What were we grafted into then?
Well, there were believers before Jacob. I'd start my search there. There's a reason Paul brings up Abraham.
Sorry, I have no time for any more detail and I'll get to your other post when time allows.
Clete
The Gentiles were grafted into the converted Israel, the branch from off of the holy root. (Rom 11:17)
I don't know what you are referencing.
OK, good writing to you.
My check book may not always balance to the penny but I don't commit sin.
Thanks to the grace and glory of God.
glorydaz
Well-known member
It's good to see you boasting. Keep up the good work.
Me? The right direction to quit sinning?
No, I just trust in the Lord, and thank Him for His work in me.
musterion
Well-known member
When?
When he was writing to the Galatians? That was his gospel that the law was being added to, not the Kingdom gospel.
I'm not clear on what you mean.
I do not believe you. In fact, I know that this is not true. You're either lying or you are literally delusional.
This sort of thing makes it difficult for me to proceed. I get my time wasted on this website to such a large degree that I have a difficult time intentionally committing the time toward people who believe in heresies that are so transparently false as Christian perfectionism. It makes me wonder whether the person has the mental capacity to even register what I am trying to say. Not because they're stupid but because they aren't interested in even considering the possibility that their paradigm is even partially incorrect. It doesn't seem worth it to me to spend the sort of time and energy that these posts require on someone who has turned their mind off to the degree required to permit such childishly obvious falsehood to take root in their mind. In other words, the sort of mentality it requires to adopt such flagrantly false doctrine is the same sort of mentality that drove 909 people to intentionally drink poisoned cool-aid in a remote settlement in Guyana. There is no logic in it. It isn't about thinking things through and being rational and I sort of find it fruitless to reason with the unreasonable.
Of course, all of that is presuming that you aren't simply lying, right? The result is the same, however. Either way, my time is being wasted.
Change my mind.
Clete
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
OK.
So what I'm clocking now is that there was one 'gospel' that Jesus personally preached before He sent out His disciples (A),
then there's whatever 'gospel' His disciples preached before the 'DBR' (B),
there's the 'DBR' 'gospel' that Christ taught His disciples before the 'DBR' (C; aka Paul's Gospel),
there's whatever 'gospel' the Apostles now preached immediately after the 'DBR' and before Paul (D; which might be this "gospel that the law was being added to" you mention),
and there might be another one that the Eleven preached after Paul but that is still not exactly Paul's Gospel (E; after the Acts 15 council).
Could be that 'A' and 'B' and are the same thing and that 'D' and 'E' are some (illicit) mixture of 'A' and 'B' with 'C'?
Is there another "Kingdom gospel" that's different from 'A' and 'B', that includes the 'DBR'?
Right Divider
Body part
Here's an interesting way to "spread the gospel".
My "boast" is in the righteousness of God.
My joy is to be part of that righteousness.
It is written..."But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe:..." (Rom 3:21-22)
Don't you "believe"?
That is too bad.
As God can never be accused of sin, the "work in you" can't be sin.
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
The Lord preached the 'DBR' to His disciples; this account of His 'earthly ministry' is well supported in the record (i.e., in the four Gospels).
It was before the 'DBR' actually occurred, and none of them 'got it'. And then when the 'DBR' did happen, they still didn't 'get it.'
It wasn't until both Cornelius, and Paul (and Acts 15 and Galatians 2), before they did 'get it', 'it' being the 'DBR', "the Gospel" and New Covenant of God's grace.
As far as I'm concerned. I have no need for MAD, there's no conflict to resolve in the Scripture that isn't already solved within its pages themselves. MAD violates the principle of 'Occam's razor' since there isn't any reason we need another theory to explain the data. Not that such a determination is proof; it's just consistent with it being incorrect theology.
You don't have to believe me, but do you believe Jesus?
He said..."And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." (Jhn 8:32-34)
The truth can really free us from committing sin.
If it couldn't, Paul never would have written..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
Or..."Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." (2 Tim 2:19)
Or..."For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Rom 6:7)
Do you really think Jesus would have suffered, died and risen from the dead just so we could quit sacrificing animals for our sins?
That would have meant Jesus died for the animals, and not for us.
Christianity WITH sin is Judaism re-hashed.
The Jew's entire existence was...sin, atone, sin, atone, sin, atone.
God desired, no, demanded, more. (Matt 5:48)
Jesus lived without sin while in the flesh and undergoing all the same temptations we endure today.
Since we have been given the gift of repentance from sin, we too can live without sin.
Repentance means "turn from" or "change".
Our repentance is to be from sin, so repentant people are non-sinners...or the repentance was false.
We can't build a relationship with God that is based on a lie, a false repentance from sin.
Paul wrote the finest summation of Christianity in Gal 5:24..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
That crucifixion happens at our "immersion" into Christ and into His death and burial at our water baptism, as Rom 6:3-6 lays out.
Kill the flesh, and you too will be enabled to walk in the Spirit henceforth.
May God bless and keep your mind free.
Right Divider
Body part
Jesus never "preached" His death as good news to His disciples.
Nothing about what good news that would be.
Indeed, it was HID from them. Do you think that God HID it from them for no reason?
That's because they were NOT given any information about what the cross would accomplish. Theirs was a mission related to the coming kingdom and not the gospel of grace to all without distinction.
The NEW COVENANT is between God and Israel, just like the scripture plainly says.
Your "concerns and needs" are irrelevant to what is TRUE.
Nonsense.
Nonsense again. You can speak nonsense all that you want, it will not change the TRUTH that God called Paul with a unique and different mission than the twelve.
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Cool, you can quote a quote made about Paul.
Will you also heed it?