Are people born in Christ or born in sin?

[Samie]

Don't you know that Jesus reconciles us to God?

Reconciles means bring back.

If you are in Christ how is it you need to be brought back?

God made the whole universe in the body of Christ.

Adam and Eve sinned and were cast out.

Jesus came and shows us how to be put back in him.

John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Did you read that?

You have to COME TO JESUS AND GO THROUGH HIM.

If all are already in Christ then that statement is false.

The verse you provided does not say Jesus needs to put you in Him. You are simply putting your own words into Jesus' mouth.

Try hyper Calvinists.

They don't teach that people are born in Christ. They believe as you do, that people are born in sin.

Are they your teachers, GT, you have the same belief?

 

[God's Truth]

What verse says this, GT?

You asked for the scripture that says everyone is condemned until they come to Christ.

Here is the scripture:


John 3:18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.


God bound all to condemnation.

Romans 11:32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

 

[God's Truth]

Disagree.

You have to have faith in His blood to be put in Him.

Romans 5:2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God.

 

[Samie]

You asked for the scripture that says everyone is condemned until they come to Christ.

Here is the scripture:


John 3:18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

God bound all to condemnation.

Romans 11:32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

The verses do not say "everyone is condemned until they come to Christ". Search the Bible again, and harder this time.

But you won't find that verse, GT, no matter how hard you try. Why? Because it's only found in your mouth, not in the Bible.

 

[God's Truth]

If you are not in Christ, you can not bear fruit because only those in Christ can bear fruit (John 15:4, 5)

If you cannot bear fruit, then you can not have faith because faith is fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:22)

Faith comes from hearing, being taught, convinced, and persuaded.

The gospel is a powerful message. It is the powerful message that saves.

You go against the power of the message.

No one is born in Christ.

If all were born in Christ, then they were born saved.

No such thing.

There are no scriptures that say that, and no scripture implies that.

Saying such a thing as people being born already in Christ goes against God.

Jesus tells us to COME TO HIM.

If you are already in Him, and only those already in Him can be saved, then you make a mockery of Christ.

 

[Samie]

You have to have faith in His blood to be put in Him.

Romans 5:2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God.

The verse does not say "you have to have faith in His blood to be put in Him". There's no verse like that in the Bible. It's only found in your own mouth, GT.

 

[Truster]

The verse does not say "you have to have faith in His blood to be put in Him". There's no verse like that in the Bible. It's only found in your own mouth, GT.

Well spotted.

 

[God's Truth]

The verses do not say "everyone is condemned until they come to Christ". Search the Bible again, and harder this time.

But you won't find that verse, GT, no matter how hard you try. Why? Because it's only found in your mouth, not in the Bible.

Your mere denial means nothing.

You have no truth to defend your false beliefs, it is why you do not talk about the scriptures I gave.

Show the scripture which says only the already saved in Christ are saved.

No such thing.

 

[Samie]

Your mere denial means nothing.

You have no truth to defend your false beliefs, it is why you do not talk about the scriptures I gave.

Show the scripture which says only the already saved in Christ are saved.

No such thing.

Oh, so you threw in the towel for your futile search.

 

[Samie]

Your mere denial means nothing.

You have no truth to defend your false beliefs, it is why you do not talk about the scriptures I gave.

It's plain to see those verses don't say what you said they say.

Show the scripture which says only the already saved in Christ are saved.

No such thing.

You don't believe that if one is in Christ he is saved?

 

[God's Truth]

The verse you provided does not say Jesus needs to put you in Him. You are simply putting your own words into Jesus' mouth.


They don't teach that people are born in Christ. They believe as you do, that people are born in sin.

Are they your teachers, GT, you have the same belief?

You are not telling the truth.

You are a dishonest person.

 

[Truster]

Oh, so you threw in the towel for your futile search.

You can't pin her down to specific verses as she always changes tack and puts the onus on you to prove some unrelated verse...as she has just done.

 

[Truster]

PS She's trolling you now. I had her for thousands of rants. I requested the closure of two threads to get her off my back. I have her on ignore now. Just giving you the heads up because she is a danger.

 

[Samie]

You are not telling the truth.

By saying that Jesus said you can do NOTHING when NOT in Him, I'm not telling the truth?

You are a dishonest person.

Don't Calvinists believe as you do that people are born in sin? If they do, then, how come I am being dishonest.

 

[God's Truth]

No one is born in Christ. Samie and Truster have to deny the scriptures that I gave about all being condemned. They have to deny Jesus calling people to him.

These scriptures say people were broken off, AND SOME ARE GRAFTED IN. If only the those who can be saved are already in Christ, then grafted in is a mockery.

Romans 11:17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root,


ALL things were created in him.

John 1:3 Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.

All were cast out.

Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear.

Scriptures plainly show that humans were CAST OUT and that we must be brought back in. Jesus reconciles everything through him, again. Reconcile means again.

Ephesians 1:10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to bring all things in heaven and on earth together in Christ.

Colossians 1:20 and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross.

Colossians 1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—

Romans 5:10 For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!

2 Corinthians 5:18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:

2 Corinthians 5:20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.

Ephesians 2:16 and in one body, to reconcile both of them to God through the cross by which he put to death their hostility.

No such thing what you teach.

If only those in Christ can be saved, then why do the scriptures say cast out? Why do scriptures say be reconciled?

Your pride is so high you would have to humble yourself to ever see and know the truth.

 

[Samie]

It's past midnight from where I am. So, goodnight and see you later, folks.

 

[God's Truth]

You can't pin her down to specific verses as she always changes tack and puts the onus on you to prove some unrelated verse...as she has just done.

I explained to him before what Jesus was saying to his disciples when he told them they can do nothing without him. He was warning them not to leave him. That is not about hearing the truth and being saved and coming into him.

When Jesus came to earth, he came ONLY FOR those who ALREADY belonged to God, a remnant of Jews. When Jesus was crucified, then all could come to him to be saved.

 

[Samie]

But the bed can wait. GT has posted.

No one is born in Christ.

Already proven from SCriptures that we all are born in Christ. You just don't agree.

Samie and Truster have to deny the scriptures that I gave about all being condemned.

Not denying Scriptures. Only what you say.

They have to deny Jesus calling people to him.

Well, Jesus calls people to repent because they are already in Him and they have His power to be able to repent, that is, overcome evil with good.

These scriptures say people were broken off, AND SOME ARE GRAFTED IN.

You know from where was the breaking off and to where was the grafting in?

If only the those who can be saved are already in Christ, then grafted in is a mockery.

You say mockery because you don't know from where the breaking was done and to where the grafting was made.

Romans 11:17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root,

Do you know what the olive tree represents?

ALL things were created in him.

John 1:3 Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.

Agree.

All were cast out.

Disagree.

Even the apostle Paul disagrees with you:

KJV Romans 11:1-2 1. I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.

Will get back to you after a good night's rest.

 

[God's Truth]

But the bed can wait. GT has posted.
Already proven from SCriptures that we all are born in Christ. You just don't agree.

Not denying Scriptures. Only what you say.

Well, Jesus calls people to repent because they are already in Him and they have His power to be able to repent, that is, overcome evil with good.

You know from where was the breaking off and to where was the grafting in?

You say mockery because you don't know from where the breaking was done and to where the grafting was made.

Do you know what the olive tree represents?

Agree.

Disagree.

Even the apostle Paul disagrees with you:

KJV Romans 11:1-2 1. I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.

Will get back to you after a good night's rest.

See what you are doing, you are merely denying the scriptures and not addressing them in any way except by denial.

All things were made THROUGH Jesus.

Scripture says we were cast out.

Now we have to go through Jesus again to be saved.

If people are literally already born in him when they are born, then how is it they have to go through what they are already in?

As for you bringing up Romans and how God did not cast away his people---that is about the Jews. The Jews were already God's people when Jesus came to earth. However, God was going to make a new covenant with His people. So God cut off many of the Jews before Jesus started his earthly ministry. God kept the Jews who already had faith and cut off and cast out the Jews who did not. Not all Jews had faith. It did not take faith to do the works of the law. The new covenant though would be based on faith.

They were God's people, but now they had to go through Jesus to remain God's.

Jesus said he would not lose one that God gave him.

Jesus also said that when he is crucified, then all could come to him to be saved, even those who were cut off.

 

[God's Truth]

By saying that Jesus said you can do NOTHING when NOT in Him, I'm not telling the truth?

Don't Calvinists believe as you do that people are born in sin? If they do, then, how come I am being dishonest.

So you claim people are born in Christ---yet you go against those who say people are born in sin?

Hyper Calvinists say people are born in Christ/born saved, yet they do still sin. Are you claiming those born in Christ DON'T sin?

Either and all ways of Calvinism, hyper Calvinists, 5 point Calvinists, 4 point, 3 point, etc., all are wrong.