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Bob Enyart's "The Plot" is he right?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by way 2 go View Post
    I agree

    bottom of page

    " Jesus himself preached grace"

    Jesus never said the word grace
    1. What is your definition of the word "grace"?

    2. While Jesus Himself is not directly quoted in the gospels as using the word "grace", we still find this in the gospel of John:
    John 1:14, 1:16
    And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth...And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by way 2 go View Post
      I agree

      bottom of page

      " Jesus himself preached grace"

      Jesus never said the word grace
      Have to allow for Luke 4:22, Jesus with "gracious words", which is not at all opposed to the mid-Acts view to my knowledge, or the way Bob views salvation I think, but it surely suggests Jesus spoke of grace. I don't know anyone who would deny grace is involved in salvation in any dispensation. If anyone is saved at all, grace is involved.
      Marge: "Aren't you going to give him the last rites?"
      Rev. Lovejoy: "That's Catholic, Marge - you might as well ask me to do a voodoo dance."



      "Oh bother" said Pooh, as he chambered the next round.

      Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin

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      • #18
        So Paulos is teaching that Jesus taught grace and didn't teach grace at the same time you have to earn salvation. Got it.
        Last edited by Nick M; March 3, 2013, 06:09 AM. Reason: rebuke removed so he suffers
        Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

        Titus 1

        For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

        Ephesians 5

        11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by way 2 go View Post
          can you show how your exegesis is correct
          and that Mid Acts Disp exegesis is wrong ?
          We had a good discussion not too long ago about the idea of "two gospels" being error. You can read it here: Rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
          So they took him and killed him, and threw him out of the vineyard.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by way 2 go View Post
            Jesus never said the word grace
            John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
            So they took him and killed him, and threw him out of the vineyard.

            Comment


            • #21
              [QUOTE=Paulos;3373866]1. What is your definition of the word "grace"?
              /QUOTE]


              Hi , and the word CHARIS /GRACE is translated 12 different ways , like .

              Grace , Thanks , Trankful , Benefit , Trustworthly are just a few !!

              There is a difference between GRACE and the DISPENSATION of GRACE as explained by Paul !!

              dan p

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Paulos View Post
                Here are some other points of view:

                The Church is both the body and the bride of Christ
                I'd like for those who keep saying this to show the phrase "Bride of Christ" in the Bible. Then to show Paul using it, as well as anyone other than Paul using the phrase "Body of Christ."

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Doormat View Post
                  John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
                  That is John, not the Lord. And he is speaking of the Lord, ex post facto.
                  Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

                  Titus 1

                  For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

                  Ephesians 5

                  11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Doormat View Post
                    We had a good discussion not too long ago about the idea of "two gospels" being error. You can read it here: Rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
                    did it show your exegesis

                    and settle doctrinal debates like:

                    are believers under the law?
                    is baptism necessary ?
                    does salvation by faith require works ?
                    can believers lose their salvation ?
                    must believers keep the sabbath ?
                    is the rapture before the tribulation ?
                    is there a rapture ?

                    this exegesis works
                    circumcised= Jew under the law
                    uncircumcised= body of Christ

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      can you show how your exegesis is correct
                      and that Mid Acts Disp exegesis is wrong ?
                      All I can add to what's been said is exactly what's already been said - you won't get one. They'll CLAIM it's one, but it won't be. Never is. I've looked.

                      And mind you, this is coming from an ex-independent fundamental Baptist, which is about as close to a hard-core doctrinal bulldog as you can get these days. A friendly, patient MAD gave me THINGS THAT DIFFER and challenged me to refute it, to bleed red ink on it. I tried, for months. Threw the book against the wall once, it made me so angry. And then...here I am.

                      So what you WILL find is that those who simply cannot/will not see the revelation of the mystery for ALL that it means are quite happy with a doctrinal Mexican standoff. They'll put up strawmen and SWEAR you built them, gainsay whatever you say, ignore any number of holes you blow in their position, ignore direct questions they can't answer and pretend you never asked them, and keep repeating their same old points over and over again until one of you gets bored and disgusted and quits. Then! they usually have the unmitigated audacity to claim victory. That's why I left TOL a few years back.

                      BTW...some college kid a few years back supposedly wrote the end-all, be-all refutation of Joel Finck's THE MYSTERY. I have not seen it but heard it was hardly that. Point is, it's one of the few true attempts to take on MAD head-on and like the rest, it fails.

                      If anyone here wants to know just how rock solid MAD is, there is NO HUMAN BOOK ON EARTH I can recommend more highly than Stam's THE CONTROVERSY (now retitled HOLDING FAST THE FAITHFUL WORD). Why this one? Because it shows several doctrinal exchanges Stam had with some truly historic, recognizable names of 20th century Christianity...Ironside, DeHaan, Steadman, Rice and others. Each and every one of these cats got trounced but the book is worth buying to see just how arrogant, duplicitous and downright NASTY some of them really got back in the day when MAD was in the ascendency and a threat to water baptism (which is exactly what it amounted to for the opposers). Way2Go, if you don't have this book but are interested and promise to read it (if you haven't already) I may have a spare copy. PM me if interested.

                      Good night to all...
                      "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
                      Terence Mc Lean

                      [most will be very surprised]


                      Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
                      By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Doormat View Post
                        We had a good discussion not too long ago about the idea of "two gospels" being error.
                        Right, because there are more than two gospels in the Bible.
                        2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

                        Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Stam's THE CONTROVERSY I may have a spare copy. PM me if interested.
                          found .pdf online

                          link

                          thanks for the book title

                          So what you WILL find is that those who simply cannot/will not see the revelation of the mystery for ALL that it means are quite happy with a doctrinal Mexican standoff. They'll put up strawmen and SWEAR you built them, gainsay whatever you say, ignore any number of holes you blow in their position, ignore direct questions they can't answer and pretend you never asked them, and keep repeating their same old points over and over again until one of you gets bored and disgusted and quits. Then! they usually have the unmitigated audacity to claim victory
                          that is describing godrulz and others

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            musterion
                            Slogan/motto:
                            Christ + nothing else = salvation. Christ + anything else = Lake of Fire.
                            i wouldn't say a christian that believes he has to keep the law is going to the Lake of Fire

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by way 2 go View Post
                              i wouldn't say a christian that believes he has to keep the law is going to the Lake of Fire
                              If a professing Christian is keeping any aspect of the Law (to which he died in Christ!) in order to keep himself saved, stay saved, prove he's saved or to be sanctified, then at the very least he has believed a false gospel of works. He or she may have truly believed the Gospel and so are regenerated and eternally secure in Christ, but is now walking not by faith but by the flesh and is on the path to self-righteousness. He or she needs to repent of it, per Paul's rebuke to the Galatians. In most cases though, I fear it is the sign of a devout, religious, sincere unbeliever who has been deceived and has never been saved - the sign of a member of Christendom but not of Christ - for if we are saved or sanctified by keeping any aspect of the Law then Christ died for nothing, yes?
                              "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
                              Terence Mc Lean

                              [most will be very surprised]


                              Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
                              By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by way 2 go View Post
                                found .pdf online

                                link

                                thanks for the book title



                                that is describing godrulz and others
                                Yep, one of the people who went on my block list, quick.

                                Glad you found the book. Take time to read it, it's truly fascinating and will shed light on much.
                                "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
                                Terence Mc Lean

                                [most will be very surprised]


                                Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
                                By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

                                Comment

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