The earth is flat and we never went to the moon--Part II
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1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
And amr thinks this aint a chat site.
That's when this site rocks.
That's when this site rocks.
I apologise, I'm going after this the wrong way, here. Alright, try this instead. Grab a lamp, place it about a foot to a foot and a half away from one wall, turn it on, and (with the shade off) hold your finger a few inches away from it, where the shadow of your finger is barely visible.
The shadow should be several times larger than the width of your finger.
Now, move your finger towards the far wall. What happens to the shadow? It gets smaller right? Stop your finger a few feet from the far wall. Is the shadow sharp or still blurry? Blurry right?
During the eclipse, the 100 mile wide path wasn't about the shadow of the moon. It's about the path of totality, inside of which it will not be possible to see the sun. Outside of it, the sun will be partially visible, to completely visible.
George Affleck
TOL Subscriber
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
False
The umbra will never be or appear smaller than the object itself.
It will always appear smaller than the penumbra.
Try it on a smaller scale moving the object closer to the back drop and I guarantee you it never appears smaller than when you get it next to the back drop.
Get a big flashlight and hold a penny in front of it.
Start moving the penny toward the wall.
I did it before I made my first post to rightly.
It's why I'm not budgin'.
Edit: There is a point where you can see the umbra inside the penumbra, it's pretty cool but not smaller than the actual object.
PS
Thanks for posting that George, I wasn't sure how to explain seeing the darker image inside the lighter one.
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1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
George Affleck
TOL Subscriber
The umbra will never be or appear smaller than the object itself.
It will always appear smaller than the penumbra.
Try it on a smaller scale moving the object closer to the back drop and I guarantee you it never appears smaller than when you get it next to the back drop.
Get a big flashlight and hold a penny in front of it.
Start moving the penny toward the wall.
I did it before I made my first post to rightly.
It's why I'm not budgin'.
Edit: There is a point where you can see the umbra inside the penumbra, it's pretty cool but not smaller than the actual object.
Here's what you are missing:
The sun is approx. 850,000 miles in diameter.
It projects light that size in all directions.
If we consider only the light coming in the direction of the earth, it projects a beam of light across the solar system the same size, near it or far away from it. When that beam of light passes by the earth, it is still 850,000 miles in diameter, but the earth is only 25,000 miles in diameter.
Imagine you are in a space ship on the dark side of the earth. As you move farther away from the earth and sun, because the sun is much larger, the shadow the earth would cast becomes smaller. You will have more difficulty staying in a place where the sun (to you) is covered and, eventually you will see a ring of light around the earth in your rear view mirror that will increase the farther away you get away from the earth. This is because you have passed the point where (to you) there is an umbra. The light from one edge of the sun is illuminating the opposite side and so forth at any point around the circle. Eventually the earth will appear as only a small spot on the sun.
You can prove this to yourself by closing one eye and putting your fist close in front of the open eye. Now back your head away without moving your fist. Whereas you could not see the light from your monitor to begin with, as you back your eye away, the light from your computer begins to come into view. It's all about the relationship of the object sizes and your vantage point.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
He has already been shown to be in error. The whole video about Gleason's map with its patent is no doubt nothing more than an attempt at damage control because someone already told Chippy the chipmunk that he is tinkering with a 2D azimuthal map of a 3D globe printed on a flat map. That means that Chippy is either in denial, or flat out lying, or both, which is also why in his first video you posted he was attempting to move the tropic of capricorn out to what he imagines to be an arctic ice wall: but on his supposed flat earth map the supposed ice wall is actually Antarctica, stretched out all the way around the outer edges of the map, because it is an azimuthal 2D map of a 3D globe as viewed from above the north pole. It has already been shown herein but you decided to ignore the information twice now.
Patrick already posted the Gleason map with another similar map:
And on the very next page was where I first posted this:
This blogger discusses flight paths, (a little bit), in association with maps and at the same time also proves the same thing I have been saying herein: that the flat-earthers are for the most part unknowingly and unwittingly using a 2D azimuthal globe earth map to supposedly prove their theories. :rotfl:
http://flatearthdeception.com/maps-prove-the-flat-earth-deception/
It does not matter how much hemming and hawing you do and how many refutation videos you post: they are clearly and plainly the same types of map, that is, both of the following are 2D azimuthal maps of a 3D globe:
http://flatearthdeception.com/maps-prove-the-flat-earth-deception/
Anyone can see that the two maps above are essentially the same: and the fact that Australia is stretched out the way it is on both maps makes it even more obvious. The only real differences are due to the fact that Gleason's map was created well before the age of computers and had to be taken from known sources at the time, fellow cartographers, who by the way, all believed the earth was a globe and knew precisely what they were doing in making their versions of the azimuthal 2D maps of the 3D globe.
The blogger in that article even provides a link where you can go and create your own azimuthal 2D map of the 3D globe as viewed from above whatever location on earth you wish:
https://ns6t.net/azimuth/azimuth.html
Moreover here is one of your own, a flat-earther, who takes the Gleason map and runs it through a program that turns it into a 3D globe model: and it works perfectly! And yet he still does not realize that what he has actually done is to prove his own misunderstanding of the map:
Be sure you read the comments section below the video too! :rotfl:
(Before he realizes what he has done and takes the video down, lol).
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The equipment is still on the roof of a house I no longer inhabit.
It doesn't need any verification from me. You can just accept my word. After all, I have been nothing but honest with you up to this point, so there is good evidence to support my reliability in this matter.
Stuart
When you say, "Assuming the earth is flat in order to get the angle of the sun contradicts the earth is a globe" it is yourself doing the assuming. In the diagram below the plane or circle is only for calculation purposes and represents the 90 degree local latitude upon which the observer is standing, or the house, or building, or location, or whatever. This kind of geometry is used every day all over the world in building construction because it is necessary to know the path of the sun for solar heating or solar heat avoidance purposes. It does not mean the drawing is assuming a flat earth but rather using the circle or disc as a plane of reference to calculate the path of the sun.
Here is a link to an architectural site which uses such geometry:
https://www.iesve.com/software/case-studies/info?building=TLC-Engineering-for-Architecture&id=2880
Here is a Wiki article discussing the architectural uses of this geometry, which also goes into some depth explaining what I have said previously herein: how the path of the sun is a reverse arc in the southern hemisphere compared to what is seen in the northern hemisphere. If builders and architects need such things to properly lay out the buildings and stadiums they are about to build then it should be fairly clear that this is not some conspiracy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_path
From the article:
Effect of the Earth's axial tilt
Sun paths at any latitude and any time of the year can be determined from basic geometry.[4] The Earth's axis of rotation tilts about 23.5 degrees, relative to the plane of Earth's orbit around the Sun. As the Earth orbits the Sun, this creates the 47° declination difference between the solstice sun paths, as well as the hemisphere-specific difference between summer and winter.
In the Northern Hemisphere, the sun path near to the winter solstice (November, December, January) rises in the southeast, transits the celestial meridian at a low angle in the south (more than 43° above the southern horizon in the tropics), and then sets in the southwest. It is on the south (equator) side of the house all day long. A vertical window facing south (equator side) is effective for capturing solar thermal energy. For comparison, the sun path near the winter solstice in the Southern Hemisphere (May, June, July) rises in the northeast, peaks out at a low angle in the north (more than halfway up from the horizon in the tropics), and then sets in the northwest. There, the north-facing window would let in plenty of solar thermal energy to the house.
In the Northern Hemisphere, the sun path near to the summer solstice (May, June, July), the Sun rises in the northeast, peaks out slightly south of overhead point (lower in the south at higher latitude), and then sets in the northwest, whereas in the Southern Hemisphere the sun path near the summer solstice (November, December, January), the Sun rises in the southeast, peaks out slightly north of overhead point (lower in the north at higher latitude), and then sets in the southwest. A simple latitude-dependent equator-side overhang can easily be designed to block 100% of the direct solar gain from entering vertical equator-facing windows on the hottest days of the year. Roll-down exterior shade screens, interior translucent-or-opaque window quilts, drapes, shutters, movable trellises, etc. can be used for hourly, daily or seasonal sun and heat transfer control (without any active electrical air conditioning).
Everywhere around the world during the equinoxes (March 20/21 and September 22/23) except for the poles, the sun rises due east and sets due west. In the Northern Hemisphere, the equinox sun peaks in the southern half (about halfway up from the horizon at mid latitude) of the sky, while in the Southern Hemisphere, that sun peaks in the northern half of the sky. When facing the equator, the sun appears to move from left to right in the Northern Hemisphere and from right to left in the Southern Hemisphere.
The latitude (and hemisphere)-specific solar path differences are critical to effective passive solar building design. They are essential data for optimal window and overhang seasonal design. Solar designers must know the precise solar path angles for each location they design for, and how they compare to place-based seasonal heating and cooling requirements.
In the U.S., the precise location-specific altitude-and-azimuth seasonal solar path numbers are available from NOAA – the "equator side" of a building is south in the Northern Hemisphere, and north in the Southern Hemisphere, where the peak summer solstice solar altitude occurs on December 21.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_path
The paths of the sun are definitely not a conspiracy.
I can't question your personal opinion, but this is science and verification is required.
--Dave
When you say, "Assuming the earth is flat in order to get the angle of the sun contradicts the earth is a globe" it is yourself doing the assuming. In the diagram below the plane or circle is only for calculation purposes and represents the 90 degree local latitude upon which the observer is standing, or the house, or building, or location, or whatever. This kind of geometry is used every day all over the world in building construction because it is necessary to know the path of the sun for solar heating or solar heat avoidance purposes. It does not mean the drawing is assuming a flat earth but rather using the circle or disc as a plane of reference to calculate the path of the sun.
Here is a link to an architectural site which uses such geometry:
https://www.iesve.com/software/case-studies/info?building=TLC-Engineering-for-Architecture&id=2880
Here is a Wiki article discussing the architectural uses of this geometry, which also goes into some depth explaining what I have said previously herein: how the path of the sun is a reverse arc in the southern hemisphere compared to what is seen in the northern hemisphere. If builders and architects need such things to properly lay out the buildings and stadiums they are about to build then it should be fairly clear that this is not some conspiracy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_path
From the article:
Effect of the Earth's axial tilt
Sun paths at any latitude and any time of the year can be determined from basic geometry.[4] The Earth's axis of rotation tilts about 23.5 degrees, relative to the plane of Earth's orbit around the Sun. As the Earth orbits the Sun, this creates the 47° declination difference between the solstice sun paths, as well as the hemisphere-specific difference between summer and winter.
In the Northern Hemisphere, the sun path near to the winter solstice (November, December, January) rises in the southeast, transits the celestial meridian at a low angle in the south (more than 43° above the southern horizon in the tropics), and then sets in the southwest. It is on the south (equator) side of the house all day long. A vertical window facing south (equator side) is effective for capturing solar thermal energy. For comparison, the sun path near the winter solstice in the Southern Hemisphere (May, June, July) rises in the northeast, peaks out at a low angle in the north (more than halfway up from the horizon in the tropics), and then sets in the northwest. There, the north-facing window would let in plenty of solar thermal energy to the house.
In the Northern Hemisphere, the sun path near to the summer solstice (May, June, July), the Sun rises in the northeast, peaks out slightly south of overhead point (lower in the south at higher latitude), and then sets in the northwest, whereas in the Southern Hemisphere the sun path near the summer solstice (November, December, January), the Sun rises in the southeast, peaks out slightly north of overhead point (lower in the north at higher latitude), and then sets in the southwest. A simple latitude-dependent equator-side overhang can easily be designed to block 100% of the direct solar gain from entering vertical equator-facing windows on the hottest days of the year. Roll-down exterior shade screens, interior translucent-or-opaque window quilts, drapes, shutters, movable trellises, etc. can be used for hourly, daily or seasonal sun and heat transfer control (without any active electrical air conditioning).
Everywhere around the world during the equinoxes (March 20/21 and September 22/23) except for the poles, the sun rises due east and sets due west. In the Northern Hemisphere, the equinox sun peaks in the southern half (about halfway up from the horizon at mid latitude) of the sky, while in the Southern Hemisphere, that sun peaks in the northern half of the sky. When facing the equator, the sun appears to move from left to right in the Northern Hemisphere and from right to left in the Southern Hemisphere.
The latitude (and hemisphere)-specific solar path differences are critical to effective passive solar building design. They are essential data for optimal window and overhang seasonal design. Solar designers must know the precise solar path angles for each location they design for, and how they compare to place-based seasonal heating and cooling requirements.
In the U.S., the precise location-specific altitude-and-azimuth seasonal solar path numbers are available from NOAA – the "equator side" of a building is south in the Northern Hemisphere, and north in the Southern Hemisphere, where the peak summer solstice solar altitude occurs on December 21.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_path
The paths of the sun are definitely not a conspiracy.
Altitude & Azimuth: The Horizontal Coordinate System
The horizontal coordinate system, also known as the Alt/Az system, is a method for describing the exact position of objects in the sky, such as planets, the Sun, or the Moon. This system is also used by timeanddate.com to describe the positions of the Sun, the Moon, and the planets of our solar system.
Distance Irrelevant
Based on two coordinates, altitude and azimuth, the horizontal coordinate system provides the general direction in which to find a celestial object. Although the distance of the visible planets, stars, and galaxies differs by billions of light years, the system ignores the depth of space as an object's distance is irrelevant for the purpose of locating it in the sky.
The Celestial Sphere
Imagine the sky as a dome towering above you, its edges resting on the horizon. This is the backdrop the horizontal coordinate system uses to map the sky and describe the positions of its objects. To compare, the geographic coordinate system uses the Earth's surface as a backdrop to determine a position.
In effect, the system also includes the invisible half of the sky that is below the horizon. The dome above you is called the upper hemisphere and the invisible part of the sky below you is the lower hemisphere. Together, they form the celestial sphere, an imaginary globe surrounding you, with you at its center.
https://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy/horizontal-coordinate-system.html
https://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy/horizontal-coordinate-system.html
Thus the plane or circle in which the observer stands is nothing more than the latitude position on a globe model imagined as a plane, (the celestial sphere is a "construct" merely used for calculation purposes, celestial navigation). Here is a site explaining the celestial sphere:
http://www.empirenet.com/tajames/astronomy/notes-celestial-sphere.html
Notice in the image file above the horizon line is flat from the position of the observer. I think perhaps this is what you are mistaking as if a flat earth is being assumed. The celestial sphere is an imaginary coordinate system dependent on location, local viewing area, particularly the latitude of the observer upon the globe.
http://www.empirenet.com/tajames/astronomy/notes-celestial-sphere.html
Once again, you can stop with the IDIOTIC photographic arguments. It convinces no one other than those who haven't the faintest idea how cameras work. With the right wide angle lens you can make the same horizon look convex, concave or flat all from the exact same location. It's simply a matter of camera angle and type of lens used.
By the way, why on Earth would the comptrollers of the worldwide conspiracy ever permit a photograph of the flat earth to survive long enough to make it to the internet. Aren't you afraid for your life for having posted such unassailable evidence that "they" have been lying to us?
And the moons shadow isn't 100 miles wide. OH Lord! How can people be so uncontrollably gullible and stupid?
The apparent size of the Sun and Moon are almost exactly the same but the Sun is very far away and so you don't have to be out of alignment with the two objects by very much to be able to see a portion of the Sun past the edge of the Moon. If the Moon were closer to the surface of the Earth, its umbral shadow (path of totality) would be larger. If, on the other hand, it were much further away at all, then there would be no umbral shadow on the surface of the Earth whatsoever because we could see the edge of the Sun all the way around the Moon. In other words, the umbral shadow is pretty much as small as it could possibly get without going away completely. As such, the fact that the umbra is 100 miles across is proof that the flat-earth stupidity about both objects being only a few thousand miles away is flatly falsified. No way possible for the Moon to cast the shadow that it casts unless the Sun is very much further away than the Moon is and WAY WAY further away than the flat-earthers suggest.
Prediction: This argument, which is sufficient to convince anyone who is being the least bit honest, will be ignored entirely. No response of any substance will be offered and it will not move a single flat earther one inch away from his ridiculous delusion.
Clete
David, you don't need him to prove it. You can prove it yourself in a single day with any camera that will take even a thirty second long exposure, which is pretty much any digital camera in existence.
The celestial pole does not move (actually it does but very slightly over hundreds of years - another phenomenon that flat-earthers cannot explain). All the stars in the sky, INCLUDING THE SUN, appear to rotate around the celestial pole. In the north that is basically where Polaris is located. This evening, or the next clear night, put your camera on a tripod, set it to take the longest exposure that it is capable of taking, point it at Polaris and take the shot. I recommend using the delay setting as well so that it waits a few seconds after you hit the button before opening the shutter. That way you don't end up with smeared stars due to the camera shaking when you push the button.
When you look at the image, you'll note that the path of the stars are drawing a circle roughly around Polaris (the actual center of the circles is off just to the side of Polaris so it too will draw a small circle). Every single star in the sky draws this same circle and that includes the Sun - unless you live south of the Equator, then it's flipped and the circle is drawn around the south celestial pole (there is no bright star right near the south celestial pole, by the way).
From the equator, with a very wide angle lens than can see the entire night sky, you can produce the following image...
View attachment 26278
As for proving the arc of the Sun, you don't even need a camera. Just pick a sunny day, go out side once an hour and document the position of the Sun. Put a stick in the ground and mark the tip of its shadow once an hour for one day or do it by whatever means you like. Use the data that you personally collect to figure it out for yourself. It isn't hard at all. It's not the least bit complicated or confusing. It's quite easy in fact. Anyone interested in discovering the truth about this stuff ought to jump at the chance to perform such a simple and straight forward experiment.
Dave, if the Earth is a flat disk, how could it possibly rise to our eye level?
What, verification that I have done an experiment that repeats the well-established work of others before me? Science requires no such verification. But that is the power of science: in principle at least, anyone can repeat an experiment for themselves and expect to get the same results, and if those results are not achieved then question the hypothesis or theory. I got entirely consistent results with the model that has the sun setting at a different place along the horizon each day, a phenomenon entirely explained by a model of a global earth orbiting the sun, slightly tilted on its rotational axis, and according to Newton's Laws of motion. I have never seen how a flat earth model explains that change in setting position. How does it?
The science was well-established before I tried repeating it. I recommend learning some science. It's not really my job to run science tutorials for your benefit, amusing as that could be on some occasions.
Stuart
I'm studying this, from both sides. Flat earth has its own way of seeing the stars.
--Dave
When you say, "Assuming the earth is flat in order to get the angle of the sun contradicts the earth is a globe" it is yourself doing the assuming. In the diagram below the plane or circle is only for calculation purposes and represents the 90 degree local latitude upon which the observer is standing, or the house, or building, or location, or whatever. This kind of geometry is used every day all over the world in building construction because it is necessary to know the path of the sun for solar heating or solar heat avoidance purposes. It does not mean the drawing is assuming a flat earth but rather using the circle or disc as a plane of reference to calculate the path of the sun.
Here is a link to an architectural site which uses such geometry:
https://www.iesve.com/software/case-studies/info?building=TLC-Engineering-for-Architecture&id=2880
Here is a Wiki article discussing the architectural uses of this geometry, which also goes into some depth explaining what I have said previously herein: how the path of the sun is a reverse arc in the southern hemisphere compared to what is seen in the northern hemisphere. If builders and architects need such things to properly lay out the buildings and stadiums they are about to build then it should be fairly clear that this is not some conspiracy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_path
From the article:
Effect of the Earth's axial tilt
Sun paths at any latitude and any time of the year can be determined from basic geometry.[4] The Earth's axis of rotation tilts about 23.5 degrees, relative to the plane of Earth's orbit around the Sun. As the Earth orbits the Sun, this creates the 47° declination difference between the solstice sun paths, as well as the hemisphere-specific difference between summer and winter.
In the Northern Hemisphere, the sun path near to the winter solstice (November, December, January) rises in the southeast, transits the celestial meridian at a low angle in the south (more than 43° above the southern horizon in the tropics), and then sets in the southwest. It is on the south (equator) side of the house all day long. A vertical window facing south (equator side) is effective for capturing solar thermal energy. For comparison, the sun path near the winter solstice in the Southern Hemisphere (May, June, July) rises in the northeast, peaks out at a low angle in the north (more than halfway up from the horizon in the tropics), and then sets in the northwest. There, the north-facing window would let in plenty of solar thermal energy to the house.
In the Northern Hemisphere, the sun path near to the summer solstice (May, June, July), the Sun rises in the northeast, peaks out slightly south of overhead point (lower in the south at higher latitude), and then sets in the northwest, whereas in the Southern Hemisphere the sun path near the summer solstice (November, December, January), the Sun rises in the southeast, peaks out slightly north of overhead point (lower in the north at higher latitude), and then sets in the southwest. A simple latitude-dependent equator-side overhang can easily be designed to block 100% of the direct solar gain from entering vertical equator-facing windows on the hottest days of the year. Roll-down exterior shade screens, interior translucent-or-opaque window quilts, drapes, shutters, movable trellises, etc. can be used for hourly, daily or seasonal sun and heat transfer control (without any active electrical air conditioning).
Everywhere around the world during the equinoxes (March 20/21 and September 22/23) except for the poles, the sun rises due east and sets due west. In the Northern Hemisphere, the equinox sun peaks in the southern half (about halfway up from the horizon at mid latitude) of the sky, while in the Southern Hemisphere, that sun peaks in the northern half of the sky. When facing the equator, the sun appears to move from left to right in the Northern Hemisphere and from right to left in the Southern Hemisphere.
The latitude (and hemisphere)-specific solar path differences are critical to effective passive solar building design. They are essential data for optimal window and overhang seasonal design. Solar designers must know the precise solar path angles for each location they design for, and how they compare to place-based seasonal heating and cooling requirements.
In the U.S., the precise location-specific altitude-and-azimuth seasonal solar path numbers are available from NOAA – the "equator side" of a building is south in the Northern Hemisphere, and north in the Southern Hemisphere, where the peak summer solstice solar altitude occurs on December 21.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_path
The paths of the sun are definitely not a conspiracy.
The path of the sun as seen from any particular location does not prove the earth is a globe or that it's flat.
--Dave
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