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  • #46
    No, sorry but you are wrong. I am 70 and after a lifetime trying to believe the impossibilities of the Bible I finally, since now semi-retired, decided to do a study of the book. Now it is impossible to take seriously. Infallible word of God? Ha! So loaded with inconsistency, no appearance of a loving God I could find anywhere in the OT and documented changes in text made by ruling secular leaders and so much more.

    Why are you so afraid? Because you're scared you aren't really saved isn't it? There isn't any "afterlife" so once gone...gone for good.

    Once you do really study, and not just absurd religious dogma, you may be joining me.

    Comment


    • #47
      So you believe that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and drink his blood and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that he put there and that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree?

      Yeah.

      I can see the wisdom in that.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Elia View Post
        Bs"d

        Is it really so hard to understand that that is a falsification?


        "Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
        But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!
        .

        Joshua 24:14-15
        So if you accept one book that John wrote as truth, on what basis do you count the other as a falsification?

        John isn't the only one to speak of a trinity. Mathew records an episode where all three persons of the trinity are present...
        Matthew 3:16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

        Jesus, whom you've already conceded is God (John 1), the Spirit of God in the form of a dove and God the Father speaking from heaven concerning His Son.

        Sounds like three to me! But then there are three kinds of people in the world; those who can count and those who can't!

        Resting in Him,
        Clete
        sigpic
        "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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        • #49
          Originally posted by chuckcloninger View Post
          So you believe that a cosmic Jewish zombie...
          Do you intend that as disrespect or as blasphemy?

          Comment


          • #50
            The Nicene Creed was adopted in the face of the Arian controversy." Arius objected to Alexander's (the bishop of the time) apparent carelessness in blurring the distinction of nature between the Father and the Son by his emphasis on eternal generation". Alexander also accused Arius of denying the Divintiy of the Son and also of being too "Jewish" and "Greek"in his thought. Both Arius and Alexander rejected Gnosticism, Manichaeism and Sabellian formulae. Therefore the Nicene Creed was created as a result of this in order to clarify the key tenets of the Christian faith.

            The Nicene Creed of 325 explicitly affirms the co-essential divinity of the Son, applying to him the term "consubstantial".

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed
            Reload this Page THERE ARE TWO GODS

            The portrayal of Christ as the Son of God has given rise to some confusion as to the relationship between the Father and the Son.

            The "Arian Controversy" asserted that since the Son had been created by the Father, He was therefore subordinate.

            The Nicene Creed (325 AD) was convened largely to address this controversy and assert the God and Christ were "consubstantial."

            con·sub·stan·tial

            adjective
            - of the same substance or essence (used especially of the three persons of the Trinity in Christian theology).
            - "Christ is consubstantial with the Father"
            Last edited by jgarden; December 19th, 2015, 05:00 PM.

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            • #51
              Don't you find it odd that a God who wants us to worship him (Why? That's like me wanting a colony of ants to worship me.) makes it so difficult to understand anything about him?

              Comment


              • #52
                No Jamie, it is a statement of fact to ponder as you Bible thumpers discuss trivialities as if they mattered.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Elia View Post
                  Bs"d

                  What part of "God is one" is it that you don't understand?


                  "For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
                  Micah 4:5
                  John 10:30 We understand both verses. You?
                  My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
                  Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
                  Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
                  Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
                  No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
                  Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

                  ? Yep

                  Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

                  ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

                  Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by chuckcloninger View Post
                    Don't you find it odd that a God who wants us to worship him (Why? That's like me wanting a colony of ants to worship me.) makes it so difficult to understand anything about him?
                    No. Scriptures answers that question. Perhaps before I had read them...
                    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
                    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
                    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
                    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
                    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
                    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

                    ? Yep

                    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

                    ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

                    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by chuckcloninger View Post
                      No, sorry but you are wrong. I am 70 and after a lifetime trying to believe the impossibilities of the Bible I finally, since now semi-retired, decided to do a study of the book. Now it is impossible to take seriously. Infallible word of God? Ha! Once you do really study, and not just absurd religious dogma, you may be joining me.
                      I believe I've studied a lot more than you have and I believe that you don't know what in the heck you are talking about. Not sure why you have 'Christian' as your moniker with statements like this, though. Nobody can take you seriously when you can't even label yourself correctly, so this is all saying a bit more about Chuck Cloninger's problem than the Bible's. Welcome to TOL but nobody is going to take you seriously with such hasty weakly contrived sentiment concerning the Word of God.
                      My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
                      Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
                      Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
                      Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
                      No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
                      Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

                      ? Yep

                      Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

                      ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

                      Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by chuckcloninger View Post
                        Even the 10 Commandments says there is more than one God. When God says "Thou shall have no other gods before me? If there were no other Gods how could there be a God placed before him?
                        That is correct, for man is made in the image of Elohim, therefore do not put yourself before Him, (O ye little "e" elohim).

                        Originally posted by chuckcloninger View Post
                        No, sorry but you are wrong. I am 70 and after a lifetime trying to believe the impossibilities of the Bible I finally, since now semi-retired, decided to do a study of the book. Now it is impossible to take seriously. Infallible word of God? Ha! So loaded with inconsistency, no appearance of a loving God I could find anywhere in the OT and documented changes in text made by ruling secular leaders and so much more.

                        Why are you so afraid? Because you're scared you aren't really saved isn't it? There isn't any "afterlife" so once gone...gone for good.

                        Once you do really study, and not just absurd religious dogma, you may be joining me.
                        Stop reading Torah and TaNaK as if it all concerns physical and fleshly things. Elohim is Spirit and His Word is Spirit and Life. Then perhaps instead you will be joining the holy ones.

                        Originally posted by chuckcloninger View Post
                        So you believe that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and drink his blood and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that he put there and that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree?

                        Yeah.

                        I can see the wisdom in that.
                        That is what happens when you force allegorical and poetic writings into strict physical literalism so as to formulate dogmaton for the long lost dog of it, (doggon it).

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Lon View Post
                          John 10:30 We understand both verses. You?
                          Bs"d

                          No. I understand that "I and my Father" speaks about a minimum of TWO (2) persons, and two is not and can not be one.

                          Why is it that when it comes to religion, that Christians suddenly cannot count to two anymore?


                          "Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
                          But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!
                          .

                          Joshua 24:14-15
                          Please be advised that everywhere in your translation of your OT when it is written "the LORD" with all capitals, then in the original Hebrew it says the four lettered name of God: Y-H-W-H. That name appears almost 7000 times in the Hebrew Bible.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Elia View Post
                            Bs"d

                            No. I understand that "I and my Father" speaks about a minimum of TWO (2) persons, and two is not and can not be one.

                            Why is it that when it comes to religion, that Christians suddenly cannot count to two anymore?


                            "Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
                            But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!
                            .

                            Joshua 24:14-15

                            Because of the definition of a trinity. As you might have noticed, that sentence goes 'I and my Father are one.' They have answered before you asked.
                            All Lives Matter --Marcus Sanford, youtube.com

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Interplanner View Post
                              Because of the definition of a trinity. As you might have noticed, that sentence goes 'I and my Father are one.' They have answered before you asked.
                              Nobody uses "they" to denote a singular entity outside of Trinity discussions.

                              Just sayin' . . .

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Elia View Post
                                Bs"d

                                No. I understand that "I and my Father" speaks about a minimum of TWO (2) persons, and two is not and can not be one.

                                Why is it that when it comes to religion, that Christians suddenly cannot count to two anymore?


                                "Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
                                But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!.

                                Joshua 24:14-15
                                BS"d (I thought you were cussing when you first used that).

                                Jesus disagreed with you. And you are correct I cannot 'count' God. You try, but such is beyond you as well. We can ONLY embrace revelation He has given. That's it. Anything beyond His own estimate of Himself is a human tugging on the robes of God. Stay with BS"d more than "Elia's Help."

                                Originally posted by daqq View Post
                                Nobody uses "they" to denote a singular entity outside of Trinity discussions.

                                Just sayin' . . .
                                Not true: "They were one team, the Aquanauts." "There is only one Aquanauts."

                                Trinity literally means "three-one." "They" and "He" become the expression and, the gospel of John doesn't balk at that and employs such consistently.

                                Objection comes from those trying to 'count' God. That's an impossibility and I say again, the ONLY thing we can do is read and embrace scripture He has given revealing Himself. You can't get to God any other way. We are finite, He is infinite. You can't count to infinity.
                                My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
                                Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
                                Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
                                Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
                                No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
                                Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

                                ? Yep

                                Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

                                ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

                                Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

                                Comment

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