Right Divider
Body part
I do, you don't. See how that works?
Please start a thread where you describe how Jesus "kept the law for us".
YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN, John 3:7
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Please start a thread where you describe how Jesus "kept the law for us".
If I did, I doubt that you would read it. You have yet to answer my question.
If Jesus fulfilled the law, Matthew 5:18, then who was it he fulfilled it for?
One, the Believer is said to have died to the Law.
Two, if the Law was abolished, there'd be no need to describe the Believer as having died to the Law.
Three, that no condemnation there in Romans I:1, refers to the sense of guilt and failure the Believer who does NOT attempt to serve God according to the Law principle, that is, in the flesh - in their own strength - will AVOID experiencing.
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
And the Law was not abolished, rather, it's condemnation of the person in Christ of sin, was what was abolished at the Cross.
In contrast, by the Law is the knowledge, or awareness of sin made known to the lost, prior to, or towards pointing one to Christ.
That right there is one reason why I agreed with you that 1 Cor. 15: 3,4 does not represent the gospel of Christ in all its key details, because Paul was merely reminding them of HOW that he had preached it in all its' details unto them.
But the Law is needed to show the lost that they ARE lost, how, and why.
There is this group - both lost Jews and Gentiles that Paul has invested some time earlier in Romans proving BOTH under sin PER THE LAW...
Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
And there is this group that the Law's condemnation against has been abolished, in Christ.
3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
But the no condemnation in Romans 8:1, refers to that freedom from the sense of self-defeat and failure that Paul illustrates in Romans 7, awaits the Believer who attempts to serve God in the flesh, that is to say, in his own strength.
Notice how Romans 7 began all that...
Romans 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
He is actually reminding them of a principle very similar to the one he'd reminded the Galatians of, some ten years, or so, earlier...
Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Tell me, how do you define sin to a lost man without quoting any part of the Law?
That part of the gospel of Christ is exactly the same as the Law of Moses it is based on.
It is its application to the Believer that has been abolished.
Note Paul words to that effect, in the following...
1 Timothy 1:3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: 1:6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
Here's hoping you'll consider re-examining your stated position on this, per that three-fold Bible study principle implied in Acts 17: 11, 12.
Right Divider
Body part
I already explained your gross ignorance on that scripture.
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...AIN-John-3-7&p=5303937&viewfull=1#post5303937
I know that you mean well, but you do not have the truth of the Gospel. God sees the Christian as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. If the Christian is perfect and complete "In Christ" then there is no need for a law. There is no law because there is no condemnation to those that are "In Christ" Romans 8:1. The purpose of the law is to judge and condemn. This is why Paul said,
"Knowing this, that the law is NOT MADE FOR THE RIGHTEOUS MAN (Christians that are "In Christ") but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers" 1 Timothy 1:9.
I hope that you will allow the scriptures to dictate what you believe about the law.
Right Divider
Body part
We believe all of that. We just don't believe your "the law no longer exists for the believer" fairy tale.
It did not cease to exist, but we know that we are NOT UNDER the law (Romans 6:14). We are DEAD to the law by the body of Christ (Romans 7:4).
We know that sin still exists, but Christ died to pay the penalty in our place.
You've been provided an answer to that spam, deceptive question, for years, Pate, but you, in deceit,in your deceptive debating ploy, keep asking it, on prompting, from the devil.
Listen up, engager in sophistry:The question is not whether for whom He fulfilled the law(and the prophets, which you delete)-He did fulfill it, for us- the question is: FOR WHAT PURPOSE?
Your satanic assertion: He fulfilled the law, so that He could become righteous, from the law, and that 100% fulfilling the law, is imputed to us. That is the righteousness of the law, not the righteousness of God, apart from the law.
Scriptures' testimony: He fulfilled the law, so as to be qualified as the perfect sacrifice, the "lamb without blemish," without sin, the satisfactory sacrifice, by blood-it is called propitiation, a biblical doctrine, of which you know nothing about, you having deleted the OT, from which its doctrine originates, and is developed, at length.
As we all predicted-anyone that disagrees with this deceiver, is branded as dead as a rock, lost, a reprobrate, not having the truth.................................
=spam
No, there is a forever existing, holy, good, spiritual law God, deceiver, that judges/condemns each one of us; the reason we are saved, deceiver, the reason we are in Christ, is because we trust 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, that Christ died for our sins, paying the sin debt, penalty, in our place, and suffering the judgment/condemnation/curse of HIS OWN EXISTING LAW, IN OUR PLACE=justice, the tenant of the doctrine of the substitutionary atonement. You deny that, satanically asserting that the solution is to make void, destroy the law, so that there is no sin debt incurred, for which He might die, and that no condemnation/judgment is possible, with no law to judge/condemn.
=spam, and your continual habitual lie, that you post to everyone, that disagrees with your satanic, from the pits of hell, "argument," as I/others, post 10 times the amount of scripture you do, expounding on them, while all you do is spam verses in isolation, deleting words, adding words, under your satanic "reason" of "freedom," corrupting the meaning of words, and satanically "interpreting" that which is left of the bible, after you delete 3/4 of it, as you, on record, assert that the OT is worthless, as you throw it in your trash.
Demon.
Again-you reject that Christ died for our sins-the devil child never cites that, the gospel of Christ, in 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV-never. And why is that? He cannot, as sin is the transgression of the law, and if there is no law, to define sin, there is no sin/sin debt/transgression, for which Christ might die.
This is what you believe, liar:
Pate asserts that Christ did not die for his/anyone's sins, 2000+ years ago, as they were all in the future, by definition, as He did not die to pay for his/anyone's sin debt, penalty, IOU, which IS INCURRED BY BREAKING GOD'S OWN EXISTING LAW, by definition, as there is no law defining the transgression/offense/sin, and resulting penalty, for which He might die, and Christ did not take his/anyone's place, in judgment, condemnation, AS HIS/OUR SUBSTITUTE, taking that judgment/condemnation/wrath, in our place, as there is no law, to bring about judgment, condemnation, wrath. He denies that Christ died for our sins, and denies the doctrine of substitutionary atonement, asserting that God's "solution" is to destroy the law, so that there is no sin debt incurred, or judgment/condemnation possible. Thus, the LORD God could have destroyed His own law, from the third heaven, not needing to send His Christ to die. And devil child Pate cannot give us one scripture, as to how the Lord Jesus Christ's destroying of the law affects justice, as Pate perverts God's justice, as no scripture testifies to how destroying the law maintains, affirms the justice of God-he made it up. The scripture does testify as to why the Saviour need die, by blood, in our place.........propitiation, reconciliation, identification, substitution.....Justice served.
Pate rejects all of that, in his wicked perverting the gospel of Christ, as a pawn, shill of the devil.
It is that simple.
Bingo-Pate denies that.
You are still in your sins because you don't believe the Gospel.
Those that are "In Christ" God sees as perfect, Colossians 2:10.
Sin still exist for unbelievers, but not for Christians. God sees Christians as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 3:3. You still cannot discern the physical from the spiritual.
1.=spam, as we don't believe your satanic perversion of "the Gospel," as you assert that it is not that we are in Christ, perfect, because we believe Christ died for our sins, our sin debt, taking our judgment/condemnation, SO THAT JUSTICE IS SERVED, taking our place, but it is your satanic perversion, that He died to destroy, make void, His own law, so that there is no sin debt, for which He might die, and no need to take our place, as a curse, being judged, condemned in our place, as there is no law to condemn, to judge, and create a sin debt, charge against us.
No, there is a forever existing, holy, good, spiritual law God, deceiver, that judges/condemns each one of us; the reason we are saved, deceiver, the reason we are in Christ, "perfect,"is because we trust 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, that Christ died for our sins, paying the sin debt, penalty, in our place, and suffering the judgment/condemnation/curse of HIS OWN EXISTING LAW, IN OUR PLACE=justice, the tenant of the doctrine of the substitutionary atonement. You deny that, satanically asserting that the solution is to make void, destroy the law, so that there is no sin debt incurred, for which He might die, and that no condemnation/judgment is possible, with no law to judge/condemn.
Demon.
Again-you reject that Christ died for our sins-the devil child never cites that, the gospel of Christ, in 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV-never. And why is that? He cannot, as sin is the transgression of the law, and if there is no law, to define sin, there is no sin/sin debt/transgression, for which Christ might die.
This is what you believe, liar:
Pate asserts that Christ did not die for his/anyone's sins, 2000+ years ago, as they were all in the future, by definition, as He did not die to pay for his/anyone's sin debt, penalty, IOU, which IS INCURRED BY BREAKING GOD'S OWN EXISTING LAW, by definition, as there is no law defining the transgression/offense/sin, and resulting penalty, for which He might die, and Christ did not take his/anyone's place, in judgment, condemnation, AS HIS/OUR SUBSTITUTE, taking that judgment/condemnation/wrath, in our place, as there is no law, to bring about judgment, condemnation, wrath. He denies that Christ died for our sins, and denies the doctrine of substitutionary atonement, asserting that God's "solution" is to destroy the law, so that there is no sin debt incurred, or judgment/condemnation possible. Thus, the LORD God could have destroyed His own law, from the third heaven, not needing to send His Christ to die. And devil child Pate cannot give us one scripture, as to how the Lord Jesus Christ's destroying of the law affects justice, as Pate perverts God's justice, as no scripture testifies to how destroying the law maintains, affirms the justice of God-he made it up. The scripture does testify as to why the Saviour need die, by blood, in our place.........propitiation, reconciliation, identification, substitution.....Justice served.
Pate rejects all of that, in his wicked perverting the gospel of Christ, as a pawn, shill of the devil.
It is that simple.
2.
What sins would that be, demon? According to you, the law that defines sin, transgression, was eliminated, destroyed, made void, 2000+ years ago.
He won't touch that-I've asked him over 100 times.
Answer, Pate: How can Christ die for your/our sins, if, according to you, the law that defines sin, transgression, was eliminated, destroyed, made void, 2000+ years ago?
Answer, Pate: How can Christ die for your/our sins,IN THE FUTURE, if, according to you, the law that defines sin, transgression, was eliminated, destroyed, made void, 2000+ years ago?
Answer. Pate: How can sin still exist for unbelievers,now, if the law that defines sin, transgression, was eliminated, destroyed, made void, 2000+ years ago? No law, no transgression, demon.
Watch his intoxicated, disjointed, dementia driven response.
Sin still exists, you quip? How? What law defines sin?
Pate asserts that Christ did not die for his/anyone's sins, 2000+ years ago, as they were all in the future, by definition, as He did not die to pay for his/anyone's sin debt, penalty, IOU, which IS INCURRED BY BREAKING GOD'S OWN EXISTING LAW, by definition, as there is no law defining the transgression/offense/sin, and resulting penalty, for which He might die, and Christ did not take his/anyone's place, in judgment, condemnation, AS HIS/OUR SUBSTITUTE, taking that judgment/condemnation/wrath, in our place, as there is no law, to bring about judgment, condemnation, wrath. He denies that Christ died for our sins, and denies the doctrine of substitutionary atonement, asserting that God's "solution" is to destroy the law, so that there is no sin debt incurred, or judgment/condemnation possible. Thus, the LORD God could have destroyed His own law, from the third heaven, not needing to send His Christ to die. And devil child Pate cannot give us one scripture, as to how the Lord Jesus Christ's destroying of the law affects justice, as Pate perverts God's justice, as no scripture testifies to how destroying the law maintains, affirms the justice of God-he made it up. The scripture does testify as to why the Saviour need die, by blood, in our place.........propitiation, reconciliation, identification, substitution.....Justice served.
Pate rejects all of that, in his wicked perverting the gospel of Christ, as a pawn, shill of the devil.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Watch out, John....Rosenritter will not tolerate this kind of talk. Best get yourself a can of her super duper white wash and get busy making yourself acceptable. :chuckle:
Ha, D of G! But as you know, I'm not afraid of her, as I've wrestled, fought, bigger girls than her before.
All of that rant and 0 scripture. John is a religious reprobate that is as spiritually dead as a rock. He talks like a believer, but does not believe what he says. If he did he would know that Christians are perfect and complete "In Christ".
=his spam, that he sends to everyone on TOL
You habitual, sick liar, as I/others, again, have given you 10x the amount of scripture, that you spam, in isolation, deleting verses,and we expound them, in contrast to you just spamming them, without explaining them, you deceiving demon.When others challenge your perversions, you wicked troll, with chapter, verse, you just spam your sound bytes, that we don't know the gospel, are reprobates, don't believe the bible,................so shuck your lies, child of the devil.
We know we, not you, are in Christ, in contrast to you, as you are still "in Adam," but not for the satanic reason you assert-no law.
Saved ones don't believe your satanic perversion of "the Gospel," satanic trash, from the pits of hell, as you assert that it is not that we are in Christ, perfect, because we believe Christ died for our sins, our sin debt, taking our judgment/condemnation, SO THAT JUSTICE IS SERVED, taking our place, but it is your satanic perversion, that He died to destroy, make void, His own law, so that there is no sin debt, for which He might die, and no need to take our place, as a curse, being judged, condemned in our place, as there is no law to condemn, to judge, and create a sin debt, charge against us.
No, there is a forever existing, holy, good, spiritual law God, deceiver, that judges/condemns each one of us; the reason we are saved, deceiver, the reason we are in Christ, "perfect,"is because we trust 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, that Christ died for our sins, paying the sin debt, penalty, in our place, and suffering the judgment/condemnation/curse of HIS OWN EXISTING LAW, IN OUR PLACE=justice, the tenant of the doctrine of the substitutionary atonement. You deny that, satanically asserting that the solution is to make void, destroy the law, so that there is no sin debt incurred, for which He might die, and that no condemnation/judgment is possible, with no law to judge/condemn.
Demon.
Again-you reject that Christ died for our sins-the devil child never cites that, the gospel of Christ, in 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV-never. And why is that? He cannot, as sin is the transgression of the law, and if there is no law, to define sin, there is no sin/sin debt/transgression, for which Christ might die.
This is what you believe, liar:
Pate asserts that Christ did not die for his/anyone's sins, 2000+ years ago, as they were all in the future, by definition, as He did not die to pay for his/anyone's sin debt, penalty, IOU, which IS INCURRED BY BREAKING GOD'S OWN EXISTING LAW, by definition, as there is no law defining the transgression/offense/sin, and resulting penalty, for which He might die, and Christ did not take his/anyone's place, in judgment, condemnation, AS HIS/OUR SUBSTITUTE, taking that judgment/condemnation/wrath, in our place, as there is no law, to bring about judgment, condemnation, wrath. He denies that Christ died for our sins, and denies the doctrine of substitutionary atonement, asserting that God's "solution" is to destroy the law, so that there is no sin debt incurred, or judgment/condemnation possible. Thus, the LORD God could have destroyed His own law, from the third heaven, not needing to send His Christ to die. And devil child Pate cannot give us one scripture, as to how the Lord Jesus Christ's destroying of the law affects justice, as Pate perverts God's justice, as no scripture testifies to how destroying the law maintains, affirms the justice of God-he made it up. The scripture does testify as to why the Saviour need die, by blood, in our place.........propitiation, reconciliation, identification, substitution.....Justice served.
Pate rejects all of that, in his wicked perverting the gospel of Christ, as a pawn, shill of the devil.
It is that simple.
2.
What sins would that be, demon? According to you, the law that defines sin, transgression, was eliminated, destroyed, made void, 2000+ years ago.
He won't touch that-I've asked him over 100 times.
Answer, Pate: How can Christ die for your/our sins, if, according to you, the law that defines sin, transgression, was eliminated, destroyed, made void, 2000+ years ago?