ECT Why shouldn't I convert from Evangelical Protestant to Catholic?

[Aimiel]

God says not to bow to any image.

I hate their idols. The neighborhood I grew up in has the RCC church that used to be called, "Saint Peter and Paul Cathedral." Now it is called: "Our Lady of The Holy Spirit Center." It sounds not only new age but also blasphemous. Anyway, the reason I mention it is: the neighborhood now has more and more Latinos living in it and for some strange reason they leave food and flowers at the foot of the Mary statue in the garden next to it. It makes my skin crawl. They call themselves Christian, but then worship an idol. :duh:

 

[RichRock]

I suggest you give your dogma to no one, and reform thyself first.

Really? Just wondering why you may have mistranslated John 1:1 in your signature? I Could be wrong, but is that from the Jehovah's Witness mistranslation from their own New World Translation....?

If so, a Jehovah's Witness on my thread trying to debate CHRISTIAN doctrine? Really?

How oxymoronic.

Interesting development....opcorn:

 

[RichRock]

I hate their idols. The neighborhood I grew up in has the RCC church that used to be called, "Saint Peter and Paul Cathedral." Now it is called: "Our Lady of The Holy Spirit Center." It sounds not only new age but also blasphemous. Anyway, the reason I mention it is: the neighborhood now has more and more Latinos living in it and for some strange reason they leave food and flowers at the foot of the Mary statue in the garden next to it. It makes my skin crawl. They call themselves Christian, but then worship an idol. :duh:

Nope, that's not going to convince me to remain protestant. I like Latino's, and food, and flowers.
Did I mention I went to my usual weekly series of 'Introduction to the Catholic Church' meeting last week? We talked about Mary and the Church, you would have loved it. The other protestants with me certainly learnt much.

 

[God's Truth]

I hate their idols. The neighborhood I grew up in has the RCC church that used to be called, "Saint Peter and Paul Cathedral." Now it is called: "Our Lady of The Holy Spirit Center." It sounds not only new age but also blasphemous. Anyway, the reason I mention it is: the neighborhood now has more and more Latinos living in it and for some strange reason they leave food and flowers at the foot of the Mary statue in the garden next to it. It makes my skin crawl. They call themselves Christian, but then worship an idol. :duh:

I know exactly what you mean.

I grew up strict Catholic. When I was about 10 yrs old, I read in the Bible where God says do not make statues, and do not bow to them.

I asked my mom why our church has statues when God says not to have them. I could tell this concerned my mom, but all she told me was not to touch the statues.
She knew that people sinned by praying to the statues, and would hold the statues hand. However, ALL Catholics are commanded to show reverence to the cross and images of saints whenever we approach them. Every time a Catholic goes to church, before sitting down, they bow to the cross up front. What don’t Catholics get about obeying God?

 

[RichRock]

The trinity doctrine is false.

Opps. Another one!
I've taken you off ignore because I don't want to miss this....opcorn:

 

[God's Truth]

Opps. Another one!
I've taken you off ignore because I don't want to miss this....opcorn:

There are three, but the three are One and the same.

The trinity doctrine makes a three-headed God.

There is ONLY One God, and He is the Father.

Jesus is God come in the flesh.

Since Jesus is God come in the flesh, then he is the same God as God the Father.

Again, the trinity doctrine errs by saying God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit are different and distinct. If they are different and distinct---then that makes three different and distinct Gods. That goes against the scriptures that say God is One.

1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

 

[RichRock]

There are three, but the three are One and the same.

The trinity doctrine makes a three-headed God.

There is ONLY One God, and He is the Father.

Jesus is God come in the flesh.

Since Jesus is God come in the flesh, then he is the same God as God the Father.

Again, the trinity doctrine errs by saying God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit are different and distinct. If they are different and distinct---then that makes three different and distinct Gods. That goes against the scriptures that say God is One.

1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Let me try and help you understand:

ccc261*The mystery of the Most Holy Trinity is the central mystery of the Christian faith and of Christian life. God alone can make it known to us by revealing himself as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

262*The Incarnation of God's Son reveals that God is the eternal Father and that the Son is consubstantial with the Father, which means that, in the Father and with the Father the Son is one and the same God.

263*The mission of the Holy Spirit, sent by the Father in the name of the Son (Jn*14:26) and by the Son "from the Father" (Jn*15:26), reveals that, with them, the Spirit is one and the same God. "With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified" (Nicene Creed).

264*"The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father as the first principle and, by the eternal gift of this to the Son, from the communion of both the Father and the Son" (St. Augustine,*De Trin. 15, 26, 47: PL 42, 1095).

265*By the grace of Baptism "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit", we are called to share in the life of the Blessed Trinity, here on earth in the obscurity of faith, and after death in eternal light (cf. Paul VI,*CPG*§ 9).

266*"Now this is the Catholic faith: We worship one God in the Trinity and the Trinity in unity, without either confusing the persons or dividing the substance; for the person of the Father is one, the Son's is another, the Holy Spirit's another; but the Godhead of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty coeternal" (Athanasian Creed: DS 75; ND 16).

267*Inseparable in what they are, the divine persons are also inseparable in what they do. But within the single divine operation each shows forth what is proper to him in the Trinity, especially in the divine missions of the Son's Incarnation and the gift of the Holy Spirit.

........

 

[God's Truth]

Let me try and help you understand:

ccc261*The mystery of the Most Holy Trinity is the central mystery of the Christian faith and of Christian life. God alone can make it known to us by revealing himself as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

262*The Incarnation of God's Son reveals that God is the eternal Father and that the Son is consubstantial with the Father, which means that, in the Father and with the Father the Son is one and the same God.

263*The mission of the Holy Spirit, sent by the Father in the name of the Son (Jn*14:26) and by the Son "from the Father" (Jn*15:26), reveals that, with them, the Spirit is one and the same God. "With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified" (Nicene Creed).

264*"The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father as the first principle and, by the eternal gift of this to the Son, from the communion of both the Father and the Son" (St. Augustine,*De Trin. 15, 26, 47: PL 42, 1095).

265*By the grace of Baptism "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit", we are called to share in the life of the Blessed Trinity, here on earth in the obscurity of faith, and after death in eternal light (cf. Paul VI,*CPG*§ 9).

266*"Now this is the Catholic faith: We worship one God in the Trinity and the Trinity in unity, without either confusing the persons or dividing the substance; for the person of the Father is one, the Son's is another, the Holy Spirit's another; but the Godhead of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty coeternal" (Athanasian Creed: DS 75; ND 16).

267*Inseparable in what they are, the divine persons are also inseparable in what they do. But within the single divine operation each shows forth what is proper to him in the Trinity, especially in the divine missions of the Son's Incarnation and the gift of the Holy Spirit.

........

Your explanation of the trinity is a little different in that it does not stress that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are distinct and different; however, where I highlighted is a mistake of the trinity doctrine which I am talking about.
Jesus says that when you see him---then you see the Father. How do you get that the Father is one and the Son is another?

 

[Cruciform]

If it is man's teachings---then it is man's teachings. If it is man's teachings, then it always goes against what the written Word says.

Then again, the teachings in the New Testament itself are "man's teachings" (the apostles were men, after all). Do you conclude, then, that the apostles' teachings must therefore be "unbiblical" or incorrect? :think:

Jesus says call no man 'father'. The Catholics teach to call their brothers 'father'.

Already sufficiently answered here and here.

God says do not make a statue, and do not bow to it. The Catholics make statues and bow to them.

Already sufficiently answered here, here, here, and here.


So far, you have utterly failed to provide any meaningful answer to my two previous points:

• Your answer, then, is that you possess the inherent doctrinal authority to declare which teachings are "heresies" and which are not in a manner which is binding upon all believers, correct?
• Also, go ahead and cite a single biblical text which states that God's word (Divine Revelation) is restricted to the written texts alone (sola scriptura), as you wrongly assume here.

Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[Cruciform]

The trinity doctrine is false.

I had assumed that I was debating with a Christian, but this actually explains quite a bit.

Take care, and God bless.

 

[God's Truth]

Then again, the teachings in the New Testament itself are "man's teachings" (the apostles were men, after all).
Do you conclude, then, that the apostles' teachings must therefore be "unbiblical" or incorrect?

No, the teachings in the New Testament are NOT man’s teachings.

As 2 Peter 1:20-21 says. Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

2 Timothy 3:14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned, and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Already sufficiently answered here and here.

Tell me, how do you obey Jesus when he says call no man ‘father’?

Already sufficiently answered here, here, here, and here.

Why are you hiding?

So far, you have utterly failed to provide any meaningful answer to my two previous points:
• Your answer, then, is that you possess the inherent doctrinal authority to declare which teachings are "heresies" and which are not in a manner which is binding upon all believers, correct?
• Also, go ahead and cite a single biblical text which states that God's word (Divine Revelation) is restricted to the written texts alone (sola scriptura), as you wrongly assume here.

I have already explained to you more than once that the written word of God is clearly written. It is only confusing when false teachers teach false doctrines.

 

[God's Truth]

I had assumed that I was debating with a Christian, but this actually explains quite a bit.

Take care, and God bless.

You do not love God's Truth. That is why you are in the Catholic denomination.

 

[Cruciform]

No, the teachings in the New Testament are NOT man’s teachings.

Really? The documents that make up the New Testament were NOT written by men...? :think:

As 2 Peter 1:20-21 says...

Yes---"As Peter [a man] says." Thus, Peter's teachings are---according to your earlier claims---"the teachings of men," right?

2 Timothy 3:14...

Yup, written by Paul, another man. In your "logic," then, Paul taught "teachings of men." Correct?

Tell me, how do you obey Jesus when he says call no man ‘father’?

Already answered.


We don't need to continue this discussion. Given that you've rejected the central doctrine of the Christian faith (the Trinity), it's really no surprise that you refuse to accept various other historical Christian teachings. I find debates with non-Christians over specifically Christian doctrines to generally be a waste of time and effort. I do hope and pray that you come to accept God the Father as he has revealed his nature in and through his Divine Son Jesus Christ, in the power of his Holy Spirit. God bless.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[Cruciform]

You do not love God's Truth. That is why you are in the Catholic denomination.

Coming from a non-Christian, I'm afraid that means exactly nothing.

Post #953.

 

[RichRock]

Your explanation of the trinity is a little different in that it does not stress that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are distinct and different; however, where I highlighted is a mistake of the trinity doctrine which I am talking about.
Jesus says that when you see him---then you see the Father. How do you get that the Father is one and the Son is another?

You do not believe the divine Unity is Triune.
Therefore you are not a Christian.
This is the 'Exclusively Christian' section of the forum.
I was looking for thread responses from Christians, hence posting in the 'Exclusively Christian' section. Your opinions regarding Christian doctrine on my thread as a non-Christian are about as constructive and useful as, shall we say.....an outside toilet on a aircraft?

You're welcome.

 

[lifeisgood]

Very interesting:
http://www.samstorms.com/enjoying-god-blog/post/why-do-some-protestants-become-catholics

 

[chrysostom]

Very interesting:
http://www.samstorms.com/enjoying-god-blog/post/why-do-some-protestants-become-catholics

yes

very interesting

 

[Nihilo]

God's Truth rebukes you.

Oh stop.

You have not been giving sight to the blind. You have not been healing paralytics. You have not been raising the dead; neither have any of your popes.

Your popes have added new things to God's Word, and God did not testify with signs and miracles to what they say---because what they say is not of God.

What are your thoughts on the Catholic teaching on marriage?

 

[God's Truth]

Oh stop.
What are your thoughts on the Catholic teaching on marriage?

The Catholic teaching on marriage is evil. A person could be married for years to someone, then have it annulled as if it never happened.

 

[God's Truth]

You do not believe the divine Unity is Triune.
Therefore you are not a Christian.
This is the 'Exclusively Christian' section of the forum.
I was looking for thread responses from Christians, hence posting in the 'Exclusively Christian' section. Your opinions regarding Christian doctrine on my thread as a non-Christian are about as constructive and useful as, shall we say.....an outside toilet on a aircraft?

You're welcome.

You lie about me. You do not care about the truth. I have already told you that there are three.