Who is Bob Enyart?

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frugalmom

Night Elf
Originally posted by Scott
What veil of confusion? Your approach suggests that all those without Enyart's knowledge are confused. That's ridiculous.

Thank you, wise one, for informing us of your Bible expertise. We now know to go to you for future Bible inquiries. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Scott I think that Enyart has built a model upon which macro concepts of scripture can cling without APPARENT contradiction. Can somebody else do the same? Sure. Does this mean that Enyart is 100% correct? No... be careful. He's just a guy with an idea. He's not the Holy Spirit, nor is there a book in the bible called "The Plot".

So, on that note, what are you? The Plot is based on the Bible 100%.


Originally posted by Scott
You quoted me above this statement of yours. I'd like to know where in that quote of mine is a "list"?

I know you did not ask me this, but I'll answer. The "list" Brellix was referring to is one that Lucky8 compiled which is a list of us folks who think Bob Enyart is a great teacher.

Originally posted by Scott
I am saying that there seems to be a noticable group of hard core Enyart supporters here and I am very curious as to their motives. That was ALL I was getting at.

Motive......?? Yeah that's it! :idea: It's not possible that lots of us happen to appreciate Bob's excellent teaching of the Bible...there must be "motive". :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Scott hope that you use better logic in interpreting Enyarts works than you do at interpretting my comments.:confused:

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. :chuckle: You seem to be the one who is confused.

If anyone wants to order the Plot, good. If not, well that's up to each to decide themselves. Noone has any business mocking those of us who have benefitted greatly from reading the Plot.

I prefer to learn the Bible from someone who has put years and years into studying it and knows it well. I won't settle for less than best on some things, and Bob is the best Bible teacher I have known of. I have gone to various churches, Christian schools and Catholic schools (in my school years) and none of it compares to the knowledge I have gained from Bob Enyart. If you don't read the Plot, fine. I just don't appreciate snide comments directed at us who have read it and appreciate it.
 
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1Way

+OL remote satellite affiliate
godrulz – You said
In fairness, I would like to read the book.

I am sure it builds a case that seems compelling (as can any well written book). I suspect that a proper exegesis of Gal. 2:7 (and the other few key verses) do not explicitly support his conclusions (there are better interpretations). I hope they are not just proof texts to support a preconceived system.

I agree with 1way that presenting teachings with clarity, rather than a doctrinal thesis like Hilston seems to want, is legitimate.
Thanks for the agreement, but I do not see getting (or appreciating, or even mentioning!) the point about the big picture prior to pretending to establishing the details. Bob Enyart’s approach to bible study, as far as I’m concerned, eliminates proof texting! The whole bible becomes one seamless consistent truth and the details all fit with no contextual effort or problems.

You are still thinking with a near sighted focus (some might say a “microscopic focus” to emphasize the lack of respect and understanding of the widest conext that virtually everyone violates on an almost constant basis.), thus seeing the benefit of the big picture is apparently beyond your comprehended understanding (esp. as applied to the bible). Having a solid biblical overview understanding has become a lost and unappreciated art. Like I said, first get a solid overview of the whole bible, that is the foundation for the teachings of the Plot, that way you can best keep from violating the context when you attempt to make sense of the details. I believe that Bob’s approach aligns itself with “the” single way that God intended us to approach His word. That is not to say that Bob’s teaching is 100% inerrant, but is the right and biblically intended path which provides a significant improvement in biblical conformity which can transform bible teachings from being more tentative and philosophically based, into being solid like a rock.

That is the single most important and crucial lesson from the Plot, get the biblical overview big picture plot and plot twists (full context) first, then when you examine the many interrelated details, they naturally fall into place. No more “proof” vrs “problem” texts(!!!), the entire bible becomes one cohesive fully consistent truth. That is the message I wanted to give you, but you didn’t even mention it. Please consider your presuppositions as fully disposable when it comes to the bible’s authority, and the blessing that one can have after having a solid overview of the entire bible. Ignore the plot and plot twists, and you will remain doctrinally confused, don’t annoy your wits, get understanding even unto the following exhortations! YES, REALLY!

  • Col 2:2 that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, and [attaining] to all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the knowledge of the mystery of God, both of the Father and of Christ,

    Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;

    Php 1:27 ... that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel,

    Eph 4:12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head – Christ - 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.

    Lu 4:4 But Jesus answered him, saying, "It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.’"

    2Ti 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    2Ti 3:16 All Scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

God seems rather dramatic about His expectations for us having one united “single minded”, whole word of God, “full assurance of even the mysteries of God” faith! Don’t settle for anything less than the unadulterated faith taught in God’s “word”.

Study God’s word His way. But be forewarned(!!!), be prepared for a dramatic increase in joyous life giving blessings that can only come from God’s word and leading.
 
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1Way

+OL remote satellite affiliate
Ok, so back to Lucky8’s post #60 and “the list”

  • -Knight
    -Poly
    -Crow
    -Turbo
    -Jefferson
    -Lion
    -Becky
    -1Way
    -AROTO
    -Denver Survivor
    -CRASH
    -Smackdab
    -frugalmom
    -tuxpower
    -Brellix
    -Nineveh
    -Sibbie
    -wholearmor (possibly)

Is this all we have? Come on, let the Enyart supporters become known. Who else thinks Bob Enyart is a great bible teacher?

Oh, ya! Put Delmer on there, is it dear Delmer, or something like that, he is local to my area.

Also, ANY +OL’er, especially those who are on this list because of our rare likemindedness, it might be possible for a brief meeting upon an occasional trip through your local vicinity (via my over the road truck driving job). Every since I found out about BEL ministries, I have been wanting to have a like minded affiliation of some sort, so that we can better encourage and support each other.
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
"So, on that note, what are you? The Plot is based on the Bible 100%."


Realistically, Bob probably had some influences in his research. There are few original ideas. The Plot is based on an interpretation of the Bible. It does more than just quote Bible verses; it also expounds with ideas and possible understandings of passages (not the only plausible understanding cf. 'I change not' does not have to mean God is unchangeable in every sense; rather He is not fickle= context and His character does not change).

There is an alternate understanding of Gal. 2:7 that is at least grammatically, contextually possible.

I do have an overview/worldview of the Bible. I do not just look at isolated texts. The Bible is God's story. Enyart is not the only one who has a coherent overview.
 

Scott

New member
I'd like to put this forth for you all. I will comment no further on this point because I think that my opinion will do no good after this.

As evidenced in frugalmom's post above, there is some obviously agressive replies when a few people are accused of lifting one man above all others. Nobody has answered the question: "AGAIN, does anybody here really think that Enyart's knowledge as revealed in "The Plot" is infallible?". So, I am forced to make assumptions, which may not be as reliable, but I still see evidence that there are people here that are lifting the guy (Enyart) to a position that no man should be lifted. Because of the passionate and agressive responses... I believe there is a degree of strife involved here, at least from a few of the Enyart fans.

1 Co 3:3-5
"for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men? For when one says, 'I am of Paul,' and another, 'I am of Apollos,' are you not mere men? What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whome you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one."

If there weren't aggressive and rude responses, then I would think that this was simply admiration for a good bible teacher. On the contrary... I believe that there is some hero worship - and this is wrong! Enough said. Take it as you may.
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
I hope people do not feel we are attacking Bob's legitimate and worthy ministry. Not all of his 'antics' with the media, etc. have necessarily glorified God or attracted others to Him. Not all of his teachings will stand up to investigation. We are each responsible to think critically and discern sound teaching from opinions. We are all adjusting our thinking, and are not dogmatic or closed to testing our ideas (I hope).

I agree a bit with Scott. There is no need to be defensive or offensive as we seek to grow in knowledge.
 

1Way

+OL remote satellite affiliate
Scott – You said
As evidenced in frugalmom's post above, there is some obviously agressive replies when a few people are accused of lifting one man above all others. Nobody has answered the question: "AGAIN, does anybody here really think that Enyart's knowledge as revealed in "The Plot" is infallible?".
Yet I previously said
I believe that Bob’s approach aligns itself with “the” single way that God intended us to approach His word. That is not to say that Bob’s teaching is 100% inerrant, but is the right and biblically intended path which provides a significant improvement in biblical conformity which can transform bible teachings from being more tentative and philosophically based, into being solid like a rock.
You also said
I'd like to put this forth for you all. I will comment no further on this point because I think that my opinion will do no good after this.
Godly love casts out fear, and that which is good should remain in our thinking and full acceptance. If your opinion is good, you should expect it to be honored and accepted. But I think you may be right to be skeptical therein.

But more to the point, no one has suggested that Bob’s knowledge or teaching is infallible so your question is rather besides the point.

Hero worship based on aggressiveness and rudeness.

It is rude of you to make such blanket statements without being so kind as to specify examples justifying your remarks. And how it was that you mistook not a single implication that Bob’s thinking is inerrant, as somehow implying that he is granted hero worship like as though he is inerrant? Doesn’t that make you into the one who is believing and trusting in that which is false and should stand corrected? Enough said on that, take it for what it is worth.

As to following after and honoring one teacher or another, Paul was not saying not to follow after one teacher and not another, he says that we should follow Paul’s example, not Peters and the others. He does not want us to brake the unity that we have in Christ.

1Co 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who [is] Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one? 6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase. 8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.

Paul teaches that his converts are his and should follow after him.

Ga 4:18 But it is good to be zealous in a good thing always, and not only when I am present with you. 19 My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you,

1Th 5:12 And we urge you, brethren, to recognize those who labor among you, and are over you in the Lord and admonish you, 13 and to esteem them very highly in love for their work’s sake. Be at peace among yourselves.

Paul is the first, as a pattern for all unto salvation, after him (in this dispensation).

1Ti 1:16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.

And when the circumcision became a problem amongst the uncircumcision, Paul never let them rule over us, he always placed his teachings above theirs for us in this dispensation.


I agree with godrulz to an extent, there is no need to be condescending or rudely offensive as we grow in Christ, unless it is the godly thing to do. See the bible for details, like open rebuke as being better than carefully concealed love, that rebuke is the first step in the redemptive process of forgiveness, that abhorrence of evil is what keeps our love from being the sin of hypocrisy.


Making baseless or ambiguous charges against the saints is not what should typify the righteous. Deal honestly and uprightly, not pretending to carefully conceal a matter so that a fitting defense or correction may be made.

(The spirit of these objections is so common (if not memorable) it is remarkable.)
 
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Poly

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Originally posted by 1Way
Ok, so back to Lucky8’s post #60 and “the list”



Is this all we have? Come on, let the Enyart supporters become known. Who else thinks Bob Enyart is a great bible teacher?
You can add NarrowWay, Wrestlerdude16, RATitude and Neo01 to that list. They were added earlier but I guess you missed it. :)

Also, ANY +OL’er, especially those who are on this list because of our rare likemindedness, it might be possible for a brief meeting upon an occasional trip through your local vicinity (via my over the road truck driving job). Every since I found out about BEL ministries, I have been wanting to have a like minded affiliation of some sort, so that we can better encourage and support each other.
NarrowWay and I would love to get together with you if you are ever in our neck of the woods.
 

1Way

+OL remote satellite affiliate
Poly – Wow, great. I thought there may have been more mentions that did not get on the list, also surely others who were not mentioned. I’ve been here at +OL since late 97 and know that others do exist, but it is hard to remember them all, or to now how much they agree with BEL teachings. I very rarely get out to OK, but if I do, I’ll see if I’ll be sailing by your neck of the woods! Thanks for the invite, it would be a blast. So, NarrowWay is your husband, I assume. I do terrible with names, and long distance relationships are even harder to remember who is who, but I try. Did you hear me on BEL the other night? I called in at the end of the show about the Biggs windshield murder and universal forgiveness of the seminary inclined son and how the death row inmates all love him for being so forgiving, they gave him a $10,000 scholarship, which effectively makes the murderers look like the good guys and death penalty proponents look like unforgiving bad guys. I think it was wed or thurs night's show, probably thurs.
 

frugalmom

Night Elf
Originally posted by Scott
As evidenced in frugalmom's post above, there is some obviously agressive replies when a few people are accused of lifting one man above all others.

You accused people who have benefitted from Bob's teaching of lifting him up on a pedestal and worshipping him. Some replied and refuted that. You kept on accusing the same nonsense. Is it any wonder people would get offended after being falsely accused of hero worship?
 

Lucky

New member
Hall of Fame
Originally posted by 1Way
But more to the point, no one has suggested that Bob’s knowledge or teaching is infallible so your question is rather besides the point.
It is perhaps rather easy for some to come to the conclusion that some posters may view Enyart's book as infallible. Scott was concerned about this fact. Thus, he wanted to make sure no one here thinks Enyart's teachings are above reproach. When he voiced his concern and asked the question, nobody gave him a direct response to that question at first. Therefore, he was even more concerned that perhaps just maybe some folks view Enyart's book as infallible.

So, it may be true that "no one has suggested that Bob’s knowledge or teaching is infallible," but I see the question as a valid concern. You may or may not, but that depends on your perspective on the matter. From my perspective, it is a valid concern. Not being a follower of Enyart's teachings (however biblical they may or may not be), I can see why Scott would be concerned.
 

1Way

+OL remote satellite affiliate
Lucky8 – Right, I suppose that the false charge of human infallibility can be shown to have some element of good intention behind it but remember, even the devil sugar coats his false teachings with truth. From my perspective, Bob teaches the bible unadulterated, and 98.7% teach it adulterated, and most within that camp teach false doctrine to an alarmingly high degree. It’s the old, ya, but everyone I know accepts it syndrome. Or more accurately, everyone I know can’t be sure what this passage means or if that doctrine is right or not, we all have to modestly accept a certain amount of biblical ambiguity until we see Him face to face. Translated, God’s word seriously contradicts it’s own clear expectations that we should have solid rock dominion even over the mysteries of God to the full assurance of understanding, and a single unity of faith and mindset, it’s is somehow “Christian” to have so much diversity and doctrinal antimony concerning just about every single teaching from the bible, and about contradiction, who cares if Christianity is like 98.7% in conflict and contradiction to itself and God’s word, it’s a human institution so sue us already.

We Plot people disagree with so much ambiguity and claim biblical clarity even if it dare contradict human presuppositions. :shocked:

But charging us with human infallibility and putting it off as a valid concern is not a reasonable mistake, instead it simply highlights the fragile nature of their unsubstantiated defensiveness. Now, them being charged with presuppositional infallibility as being the main reason why they doubt our biblical integrity, THAT is reasonable, and I dare say is what has been happening.

If you can’t deal with the whole truth with integrity, then your dealing crookedly with the truth. The truth from God is entire and consistent, Bob’s “The Plot” removes the errant presuppositions that otherwise pervert the word of God. You CAN have biblical clarity without the convoluted human presuppositions and vain philosophy; true biblical clarity comes strictly and freely from the word of God, IF you will only allow it to happen. Personal presuppositional inerrancy is the main problem for gaining the joy of true and exceeding biblical clarity and assurance of understanding.
 

godrulz

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Hall of Fame
The Bible was meant to be understood. It does not contradict itself. We do have some barriers to arrive at the understanding. Some verses are difficult and require some knowledge of the language and culture the revelation was given in. Some concepts are not revealed like a systematic theology, so there can be some disagreement on issues like details of eschatology or the nature of the atonement. With a teachable heart, there is no excuse to not come to an understanding of all essential truth. What type of clothes the biblical writers wore or the food they ate is helpful, but not essential to salvation.
 

Turbo

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Originally posted by Scott
Nobody has answered the question: "AGAIN, does anybody here really think that Enyart's knowledge as revealed in "The Plot" is infallible?". So, I am forced to make assumptions...
Well, 1Way has already given you his answer, but the "silence" from the rest of us implies "no." Your question was phrased in a way that if we tried to answer for ourselves, it could sound like we are presumptuously answering for the entire group.

Imagine if someone posted a thread asking which TOLers are married men. Then, after a list of about a dozen or so is formed, I ask, "OK, does anyone here beat their wives?" Most do not answer, because:
  1. They can't speak for the other married men on the list.
  2. They don't particularly appreciate the accusation.
  3. Their collective silence obviously implies, "no."
Since most people have not replied and a couple got defensive, would it be reasonable for me to conclude that most of the people on the list probably beat their wives?
 

Poly

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Originally posted by Turbo
Well, 1Way has already given you his answer, but the "silence" from the rest of us implies "no." Your question was phrased in a way that if we tried to answer for ourselves, it could sound like we are presumptuously answering for the entire group.

Imagine if someone posted a thread asking which TOLers are married men. Then, after a list of about a dozen or so is formed, I ask, "OK, does anyone here beat their wives?" Most do not answer, because:
  1. They can't speak for the other married men on the list.
  2. They don't particularly appreciate the accusation.
  3. Their collective silence obviously implies, "no."
Since most people have not replied and a couple got defensive, would it be reasonable for me to conclude that most of the people on the list probably beat their wives?
Nicely put, Turbo.
 

1Way

+OL remote satellite affiliate
And remember, their presuppositional authority (effective inerrency) is assumed by them against our biblical views. It would be interesting if folks would gain a teachable spirit and approach scripture as though it may actually correct them :shocked: prior to making so many anti-biblical charges against the brethren. And that is what I think is the beauty of TOL, bible study should change your life toward God.

Do I have presuppositions, absolutely, but I am more than willing to set them aside so that if I am wrong, I should gladly stand corrected so that I will ever more be able to stand on the truth of God for my life and the benefit of others I influence.

Human worship must somehow be assumed because of rude and aggressive responses.

Rude and aggressive responses? He hasn’t read (for comprehension and conformity) the bible much has he?
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Alright,
So far it looks like this is the list...
-1Way
-AROTO
-Becky
-Brellix
-Clete Pfeiffer
-CRASH
-Crow
-Denver Survivor
-frugalmom
-Jefferson
-Knight
-Lion
-NarrowWay
-Neo01
-Nineveh
-Poly
-RATitude
-Sibbie
-Smackdab
-Turbo
-tuxpower
-wholearmor (possibly)
-Wrestlerdude16

That makes 23!
Is there anyone else?
 

1Way

+OL remote satellite affiliate
Clete – Let’s add

ddevonb
deardelmar

these two brothers, one of them (ddevonb) I used to attend the same church years ago! They both really appreciate Bob and his bible study teachings, shucks, deardelmar I believe met his would be wife over the internet, and one of the first things he sent her was “Nicer than God”! Since she pretty much agreed with it, he felt like she was something special to pursue, and he ended up marrying her! Pretty cool stuff. :thumb:

Oh, ya, I think

drRansom

Is pro BEL, Right?

I'm sure there's more out there!
 
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