ECT WHO HAS AUTHORITY TO APPOINT ELDERS ?

DAN P

Well-known member
Hi to all , and who was given the authority to appoint ELDERS and BISHOPS during Paul's time ?

Some sat that they are the Historical Church and the meaning of EKKLESIA escapes them !

What about the Pentecostals , who appointed and had the authority to appoint any one , MAYBE Peter you say ?

In Titus 1:5 it reads , Paul left Titus in Crete to appoint ELDERS in every city and read Phil 1:1 also OVERSEERS !!

In Titus 1:6-9 are the qualification for ELDERS and OVERSEERS !

In verse 9 all appointees HAD to teach the MYSTERY as Paul was teaching in Eph 3:3 , don't you see !!

Just where does it leave the RCC and the Pentecostals , NO WHERE !!

DAN P
 
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kayaker

New member
It would appear those who appoint elders and bishops understood the mystery. So, with all due respect... what was the mystery? I'm agreeing the RCC and Pentecostals are devoid the mystery... but, understanding the mystery seems to be a key qualifier to appointing elders and bishops. Any comment on said mystery?

kayaker
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Hi to all , and who was given the authority to appoint ELDERS and BISHOPS during Paul's time ?

Some sat that they are the Historical Church and the meaning of EKKLESIA escapes them !

What about the Pentecostals , who appointed and had the authority to appoint any one , MAYBE Peter you say ?

In Titus 1:5 it reads , Paul left Titus in Crete to appoint ELDERS in every city and read Phil 1:1 also OVERSEERS !!

In Titus 1:6-9 are the qualification for ELDERS and OVERSEERS !

In verse 9 all appointees HAD to teach the MYSTERY as Paul was teaching in Eph 3:3 , don't you see !!

Just where does it leave the RCC and the Pentecostals , NO WHERE !!

DAN P

God working in the hearts of functioning apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers. Ephesians 4:11
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
It would appear those who appoint elders and bishops understood the mystery. So, with all due respect... what was the mystery? I'm agreeing the RCC and Pentecostals are devoid the mystery... but, understanding the mystery seems to be a key qualifier to appointing elders and bishops. Any comment on said mystery?

kayaker

Ephesians 3:3-6
 

kayaker

New member
Matthew 13:10, 11, KJV "And the DISCIPLES came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them (believers, not disciples) in parables? 11) He answered and said unto them, Because it is given onto you (disciples) to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them (multitude of believers) it (the solution of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven) it is not given."

What is/are the "mysteries of the kingdom of heaven" that disciples understand, and the believing multitudes do not understand?

kayaker
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Magnificent quote, Oatmeal... So, what are "the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven"?

kayaker

What is the difference between the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God?

Don't know?

What are you interested in? the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven or the mysteries of the kingdom of God?

Which one is the one that the apostle Paul wrote of?

Don't know?
 

kayaker

New member
God working in the hearts of functioning apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers. Ephesians 4:11

I suggest God unveiled the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven to those "apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers." Then, what are the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven?

kayaker
 

kayaker

New member
What is the difference between the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God?

Don't know?

What are you interested in? the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven or the mysteries of the kingdom of God?

Which one is the one that the apostle Paul wrote of?

Don't know?

I'm listening...
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
I'm listening...

Although Paul wrote of several mysteries, the great mystery is the one he writes of in Ephesians 3:6, Romans 16:25-26, Colossians 1:27 and other places.

The great mystery fits within the framework of the kingdom of God which spans all time.

The "kingdom of heaven" appears only in the gospel of Matthew, not in any of the other three gospels, which emphasizes Jesus Christ as God's chosen king to sit in the throne of David forever

The kingdom of heaven refers to the personal presence of Jesus Christ on earth.

Jesus' ascension signaled the end of the kingdom of heaven which will not continue until Jesus Christ's personal presence on earth in the future.

The kingdom of God spans all time.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
It would appear those who appoint elders and bishops understood the mystery. So, with all due respect... what was the mystery? I'm agreeing the RCC and Pentecostals are devoid the mystery... but, understanding the mystery seems to be a key qualifier to appointing elders and bishops. Any comment on said mystery?

kayaker
1 Timothy 3:9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

I believe it's the mystery of the gospel

Ephesians 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,


Which is:

Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Fellowheirs (the "ye" who also trusted Ephesians 1:13 KJV which are the Ephesians to whom Paul wrote the letter, Philippians and Colossians) and of the same Body (with Paul 1 Timothy 1:16 KJV and including the Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, and Thessalonians; the "we" who first trusted in Christ Ephesians 1:12 KJV).
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
Hi to all , and who was given the authority to appoint ELDERS and BISHOPS during Paul's time ?
Timothy for one.

2 Timothy 2:1 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
 

kayaker

New member
Although Paul wrote of several mysteries, the great mystery is the one he writes of in Ephesians 3:6, Romans 16:25-26, Colossians 1:27 and other places.

The great mystery fits within the framework of the kingdom of God which spans all time.

The "kingdom of heaven" appears only in the gospel of Matthew, not in any of the other three gospels, which emphasizes Jesus Christ as God's chosen king to sit in the throne of David forever

The kingdom of heaven refers to the personal presence of Jesus Christ on earth.

Jesus' ascension signaled the end of the kingdom of heaven which will not continue until Jesus Christ's personal presence on earth in the future.

The kingdom of God spans all time.

Sorry for the bump... Your post is quite thought provoking, Oatmeal! I appreciate the notion "the kingdom of God spans all time." And, I appreciate the notion you bring forth that "the kingdom of heaven" was only mentioned in Matthew, which I associate with being a disciple of Jesus. With all due respect to both kingdoms, speaking to His detractors, Jesus also said in John 8:47 KJV "He that is of God hearerth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God." Clearly there were those Jesus was speaking to who were of neither kingdom. That's a mystery, for sure!

We certainly agree Jesus sits on the right hand of the throne of God. Also, there were those who led up to the conclusion of the kingdom of God found in Luke 3:23-38, with Adam being the "son of God", to Jesus being the second Adam. I suspect there was a distinction between both. I suggest those who were the kingdom of God were those found in Luke 3:23-38, and those who were the kingdom of heaven included those who understood Jesus was the end generation, the "seventy and sevenfold" generation from God (Genesis 4:24 KJV). Prior to Jesus' arrival, there was the kingdom of God. After Jesus' arrival there was the kingdom of heaven.

Therefore, with all due appreciation to your notion, the kingdom of God spans all time, yet, there was the kingdom of God prior to Jesus' arrival (Deuteronomy 7:6, 7, 8, 9, 10), and there was the kingdom of heaven following Jesus' ascension, even during His ministry on earth. So, I might split a hair that the kingdom of heaven is being filled as we speak, and to be fulfilled upon Jesus' return. Consequently, there is currently no kingdom of God on earth, as in fleshly beings, since that fleshly kingdom of God was fulfilled with Jesus' arrival (Luke 3:23 KJV - Luke 3:28 KJV). Therefore, the kingdom of heaven began being filled via those who perceive Jesus as the end generation of the kingdom of God (in the flesh).

I am curious as to your rendering of the verse you brought forward regarding Ephesians 3:6 KJV "That the Gentiles should be fellow-heirs, and of the same body and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel." I understand via faith, but Paul mentioned "of the same body". With all due respect to the faith aspect of this component, do you perceive "of the same body" having also a literal component? I do see a flesh/literal component that the Gentiles were "of the same body". The Gentiles were descendants of Japheth (Genesis 10:2, 3, 4, Genesis 10:5 KJV). Noah sanctioned the Gentile descendants of Japheth to procreate with the Shemites/Semites in Genesis 9:27 KJV. Therefore, the Gentiles were NOT red-headed stepchildren as Jewish fables lead us to understand that Gentiles were simply, non-Jews. That was the question Nicodemus asked Jesus: Could a man (Gentile, for instance) re-enter his mother's womb, and be reborn a Jew?

All being said, Oatmeal... there was the flesh kingdom of God (Deuteronomy 7:6, 7, 8, 9, 10), and there was the spiritual kingdom of God via the realization Jesus was "seventy and sevenfold" end generation of the kingdom of God in the flesh (Genesis 4:24 KJV) as so enumerated between Luke 3:38 through Luke 3:23... Count these generations of the kingdom of God with God is generation #1, Adam generation #2, Seth #3, and so forth. That mystery has been in the Books of Moses for several thousand years! Therefore, I conclude the kingdom of heaven, as mentioned in Matthew 13:11 KJV, included Jesus' disciples... at least in these flesh bodies, although corruptible.

Appreciating Dan's post... I would like to think those who do the appointing understand these mysteries...

kayaker
 

kayaker

New member
1 Timothy 3:9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

I believe it's the mystery of the gospel

Ephesians 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,


Which is:

Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Fellowheirs (the "ye" who also trusted Ephesians 1:13 KJV which are the Ephesians to whom Paul wrote the letter, Philippians and Colossians) and of the same Body (with Paul 1 Timothy 1:16 KJV and including the Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, and Thessalonians; the "we" who first trusted in Christ Ephesians 1:12 KJV).

I sincerely appreciate your post, Heir! It is beyond my immediate skill set to discern whether all these you speak of were Gentiles, or not. I'm only sure the Corinthians were not Gentiles (1Corinthians 5:1 KJV). Nonetheless, I did discussed the origin of the Gentiles conveying a particular aspect of Dan's argument. A Gentile, "of the same body," is JUST as worthy, ancestrally speaking, of being an apostle, teacher, prophet, etc, as was an Israelite ('Jew' has a vague ancestral aspect, Revelation 2:9, 3:9). But, I've got to sharpen my pencil regarding the Thessalonians, Ephesians... etc.

Nonetheless, I'm curious as to your rendering of the "mysteries of the faith." How do you understand this mystery?

kayaker
 

HisServant

New member
The apostles could appoint all the overseers they wanted, yet it was still up to the appointee's to submit themselves to the local congregation for examination and to be tested for fitness.... in reality, the congregation holds all the authority.
 

Puppet

BANNED
Banned
Answered here. End of thread.

"Jesus freely gives His authority to the apostles" found on thd first lines of the link. 11 apostles, note the s, note theres more than one apostle, went to spread the gospel. Each apostle could have appointed elders. Each elder could have apponted more elders. All these appointed elders blended into many denominations both catholics and Protestants. Not just peter alone. How many elders has been apointed since 2000 years ago? Do we really think jesus commanded us to keep records of one million, trillion of elders by name?

The end of thread doesnt stop here. It keeps growing into another million, trillion elected elders.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Answered here. End of thread.


Hi and Peter NEVER was given the authority that the RISEN CHRIST gave to Paul , and that Paul was also called the " I AM " and forgave in the Person of Christ and you are right , that is a thread ENDED for the RCC !!

DAN P
 

rougueone

New member
Answered here. End of thread.

per your link..." Without a central authority in the Church, there would be chaos (as there is in Protestantism)."

I have to agree. There are so many denominations and divisions in Protestantism it is chaos. Backbiting, money centered, ( Pentecostals prosperity Go$pel), lack of Gods love, lack of compassion, ET..... The protestant compass is always spinning.

I can only be what I believe God-Jesus wants me to be in this day and hour. my constant prayer is to Love others with Gods Love. Not my love. Gods love. And I fail at this so much. I know when my compass is spinning. And I then steer back to Gods course. daily.

Although the R.C. has an order, I cannot line it up with Scripture.
 
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