ECT What's MAD?

musterion

musterion

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
The people who believed the historic Gospel of Christ fulfilling all the promises to the fathers
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"Historic" Gospel of Christ?

Anyway.

Was there ever a promise to the fathers that God could bless the heathen world entirely apart from -- indeed, in spite of -- His chosen people? Do us a big and post C&V if you know of it in the Bible before Paul said anything about it.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
musterion said:
"Historic" Gospel of Christ?

Anyway.

Was there ever a promise to the fathers that God could bless the heathen world entirely apart from -- indeed, in spite of -- His chosen people? Do us a big and post C&V if you know of it in the Bible before Paul said anything about it.
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Abraham's blessing is for all people. It comes through the Jews but is not just for them. It does not come through all of them as can be seen in places like Isaiah, where God is pretty much tired of them. It comes through the Seed who is Christ, Gal 3:16. The mission to the nations is in many places in Isaiah. The raising of David's fallen tent is the nations coming into the blessing, says Amos 9 (Acts 15)
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
Abraham's blessing is for all people.
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That's not what I asked you.

It comes through the Jews but is not just for them.
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That's not what I asked you.

It does not come through all of them as can be seen in places like Isaiah, where God is pretty much tired of them.
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That's not what I asked you.

It comes through the Seed who is Christ, Gal 3:16. The mission to the nations is in many places in Isaiah. The raising of David's fallen tent is the nations coming into the blessing, says Amos 9 (Acts 15)
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That is not what I asked you. But that tells me the answer: you don't have one.

You're very facile when you want to be, but not nearly clever enough for it to go unnoticed.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
musterion said:
IP, do you believe that you, personally, are among those who have forever replaced Israel in the favor of God?
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God's favor is through Christ. God has bound all men over to sin, so that he might have mercy on them all in Christ by faith in Christ.

The real Biblical problem is that Judaism replaced the Promise with the Law and voided the Promise, Gal 3:17. They thought the seed was the nation or ethne, not Christ.

NT teaching is consistently that everything is in and through Christ.

This is why there are no Judaic or Judean/land details about the 2nd coming in the NT plain language passages. And the jury is out about the Rev being futurist. The 2nd coming in judgement does not 'need' anything to happen in Israel in order to take place. Why would it? In fact, it is a very fast move from Christ slaying his enemies in the last little rebellion of Rev 20 and the NHNE. There's no time, but people can learn to see that the OT visions were attempts to show us the glory of the church and the NHNE.

I know of no place where such OT passages are taken literally, and therefore a separate program, by Christ or the apostles.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
God's favor is through Christ. God has bound all men over to sin, so that he might have mercy on them all in Christ by faith in Christ.

The real Biblical problem is that Judaism replaced the Promise with the Law and voided the Promise, Gal 3:17. They thought the seed was the nation or ethne, not Christ.

NT teaching is consistently that everything is in and through Christ.

This is why there are no Judaic or Judean/land details about the 2nd coming in the NT plain language passages. And the jury is out about the Rev being futurist. The 2nd coming in judgement does not 'need' anything to happen in Israel in order to take place. Why would it? In fact, it is a very fast move from Christ slaying his enemies in the last little rebellion of Rev 20 and the NHNE. There's no time, but people can learn to see that the OT visions were attempts to show us the glory of the church and the NHNE.

I know of no place where such OT passages are taken literally, and therefore a separate program, by Christ or the apostles.
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Again, none of that addresses what I asked you.

Either you are a deliberately dishonest weasel (my personal belief) or you really are an imbecile who can't actually comprehend simple, direct questioning.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
musterion said:
Again, none of that addresses what I asked you.

Either you are a deliberately dishonest weasel (my personal belief) or you really are an imbecile who can't actually comprehend simple, direct questioning.
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God's people, his seed by the Spirit, are those who believe the Gospel. they inherit the blessings promised to Abraham. Questions?

I did comprehend your question. It was trying to force agreement with the natural descendancy, which is no longer relevant to the kingdom of God.

You do know where the binding/mercy line is from right? rom 11:30. That concludes and defeats all belief that one ethne is treated one way and the others another way. Everything is through Christ and how one regards him.
 
Tambora

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Interplanner said:
Abraham's blessing is for all people.
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Some of them, not all of them.
Some of them were specifically for Israel.
Which is why Paul refers to the blessings/promises BEFORE Abe was told to be circumcised as a sign of the covenant. (Genesis 17)

Things that differ are not the same.
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
Danoh said:
Many external sources have their good points, at times.

Even the heretic: Clement of Alexandria (a works salvationist) nevertheless did a great job of showing the Greeks had basically borrowed much ripped of the OT.
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I agree. Ryrie makes many very good points as the why we should understand the Bible dispensationaly. But he is also very confused by placing the dispensation of the grace of God as starting in Acts 2.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Tambora said:
Some of them, not all of them.
Some of them were specifically for Israel.
Which is why Paul refers to the blessings/promises BEFORE Abe was told to be circumcised as a sign of the covenant. (Genesis 17)

Things that differ are not the same.
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Not everyone wants them, that's for sure, but the NT never mentions the land blessing. It peaked during the monarchy. Another kind of king and location was coming--the NHNE.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Right Divider said:
It really funny how fixated you are on Paul preaching Christ in a synagogue to the "Men of Israel, and ye that fear God" and " Men [and] brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God" (Act 13:16 & 26).

This entire passage simply shows Israel's continued rejection of their Messiah, which is the primary purpose of the book of Acts.

I'm very curious to understand THIS verse in light of the alleged removal of all "ethnic distinctions" at that precise time of the cross as you and many other claim.
Acts 13:46 (AKJV/PCE)
(13:46) Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
​

WHY was it "necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you"?

Your other compulsive disorder of the book TO THE HEBREWS is also fascinating. Everything in Hebrews and Revelation is completely and totally SATURATED with Israel

Heb 12:25-29 (AKJV/PCE)​
(12:25) See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more [shall not] we [escape], if we turn away from him that [speaketh] from heaven: (12:26) Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. (12:27) And this [word], Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. (12:28) Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: (12:29) For our God [is] a consuming fire. ​

The WE throughout HEBREWS is the HEBREWS. The WE receiving the kingdom is the HEBREWS (i.e., Israel).

When does Paul call OUR God a "consuming fire"? God is NOT spoken of this way in THIS dispensation of God's GRACE!
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The We is christians, Jew or not, because the very same thing that saves 'them' saves 'us.' The particular thing that relates to the Jews here, other than background, is that their land will be toast if the people do not join the mission of God.

but no, therre are no compartments in the city / kingdom / cloud of witnesses he celebrates at the end.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
RD,
found one back 4 pages:

from PJ:
Read Genesis 10x today !!!

However, the question was: what NT passage refers to the 'return to the land'?
 
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