What would you do if your child came and told you he was gay?

[AsLan]

Originally posted by Freak


Look, I have been clear in my responses to you. I have spent many years counseling those in bondage. I know how to reach people with the love of Jesus!

Show the homosexual that you love him-pray for them, affirm their worth to God, share their burdens/concerns, tell them you love them, be kind, hug them,....and you can do all of this without fellowshipping with them..

In doing this explain to them the consequences of their sin/evil practices....and their need to come to repentance.

That sounds fine, apart from your choice of words 'the homosexual'.

So you're saying you become their counselor. What are they missing out on when you withhold your 'fellowship' though? I'm really unclear as to what this means, to not 'fellowship' with them, tell me in a tangible sense, not theoretical please.

 

[s9s27s54]

Originally posted by mberthot
So after you have been saved...s9s27s54....you never lie now or cuss now or think bad thoughts ever now. WOW You are perfect!
To say that when a Homosexual accepts Jesus they change...WOW!!! That is amazing...no...you are amazing!
As far as what SOZO said. I agree with SOZO!!! Wow I never thought I would say that!

No, I'm not perfect. The homosexualality sin will be taken away once that person is saved and they know how the Lord feels towards that sin.

 

[firechyld]

In the minority. What a surprise.

Seriouosly... you must have known how the majority of posters around here would respond. What's the point of the poll?

firechyld

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by AsLan


That sounds fine, apart from your choice of words 'the homosexual'.

So you're saying you become their counselor. What are they missing out on when you withhold your 'fellowship' though? I'm really unclear as to what this means, to not 'fellowship' with them, tell me in a tangible sense, not theoretical please.

Again, I made myself clear in earlier posts--the parents needs to cut off the fellowship (the amount of time) they would invest in their rebellious child. Again, keep the communication lines open (brief visits, email, phone calls, etc) but the intimacy in the parent-son relationship will no longer be present due to the sin!

 

[AsLan]

Originally posted by Freak


Again, I made myself clear in earlier posts--the parents needs to cut off the fellowship (the amount of time) they would invest in their rebellious child. Again, keep the communication lines open (brief visits, email, phone calls, etc) but the intimacy in the parent-son relationship will no longer be present due to the sin!

Since I'm the one to whom you're speaking, allow me to tell you if you're being clear or not. Do you judge yourself like this in all areas? Let me tell you, you're not being clear.

Now your definition of fellowship is simply the amount of time spent with the rebel in question. What are the time frames that you've used in your years of experience? The intimacy is still there obviously, as you've said that there can be hugs and quiet chats, etc.

I think perhaps it would be easiest for you to describe a successful case of your application of this theory.

 

[Poly]

Originally posted by AsLan


You've clearly never spoken to one that you know as a friend. You have no idea what a person has been through in their life to lead them to seek acceptance with a gay community.

Do not even presume to pretend to know my life. This is a debate. Not a chance to lie about somebody. You need to refrain from out and out blatent lies about somebody else. Do you think when they stand before God on judgement day, He will allow the reasoning behind the fact that they are homosexuals give them an excuse? Think again.

I have spoken to ex homosexuals who said that they would not have turned to God except for the fact that somebody was harsh enough to care. People who say nothing but things like "God is love" and "God loves you and so do I" make those who hate God and living in sin, want to vomit. The lovey Christian world today has no backbone. Nothing but a bunch of jello Christians. When you get tough with one you cause them to stick around and fight. Not run because they are about to be sick over your "Lovey" God. When they stick around there's a chance for them to know truth. When they run, you've lost them.

You're superficially and sweepingly judgmental over a vague group of people about whom you could care less.

If this were true I would simply be telling them "God loves you" and leave at that.

This sort of attitude displayed by 'believers' does nothing but determent what virtues Christ displayed while here on earth.

Ok lets have a look at these scriptures you have to back this up. Oh wait, you don't have any. Christ was never forgiving to the blatently proud that were unrepentant of their sin. He never made apologies for His tyrant dad whom He was embarrassed over because He was too harsh. They were in perfect agreement over everything. The bible is full of times where God is harsh with people and He expects us to be harsh with them as well. In the Old Testament as well as the New.

Ezekial 3:18 When I say to the wicked, "You shall surely die" and you give him no warning, nor speak to him of his wicked ways, that same man shall die in his iniquity but his blood I will require of your hand.
Prov. 1:26 I also laugh at your calamity. I will mock you when you terror comes.
Prov. 11:20 Those that are of a preverse heart are an abomination to the Lord
2 Ch 19:2 ...Shouldest thou help the ungodly and love them that hate the Lord?
Psalm5:6 The Lord abhors the bloodthirsty man.
Psalm 11:5 The Lord trieth the righteous but the
wicked and those that loveth violence His soul hates.
Matt 7:5 Thou hypocrite...
Matt 10:22 And ye shall be hated by all men for my name sake.
Matt 10:34 ...I came not to send peace but a sword.
Matt 15:13 Every plant that my heavenly father hath not planted shall be rooted up.
Luke 11:40 Ye fools...
Luke 12:20 Thou fool...
Luke 12:56 Ye hypocrites
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
Romans 9:23 says and I Peter 2:8 says that Jesus is "The Rock of offense"

There are times to be steadfast, unmoving and to see what individual people sow. You, however, are not anywhere near the epitome of how those actions are to be carried out.

Again nothing scriptural to back this up.
Prov27:5 Open rebuke is better than love carefully concealed.
According to God my ways are the actions that should be carried out. Not yours.

 

[AsLan]

Originally posted by Polycarpadvo

Do not even presume to pretend to know my life. This is a debate. Not a chance to lie about somebody. You need to refrain from out and out blatent lies about somebody else. Do you think when they stand before God on judgement day that he will allow the reasoning behind the fact that they are homosexuals give them an excuse? Think again.

I have spoken to ex homosexuals who said that they would not have turned to God except for the fact that somebody was harsh enough to care. People who say nothing but things like "God is love" and "God loves you and so do I" make those that hate God and living in sin, want to vomit. The lovey Christian world today has no backbone. Nothing but a bunch of jello Christians. When you get tough with one you cause them to stick around and fight. Not run because they are about to be sick over your "Lovey" God. When they stick around there's a chance for them to know truth. When they run, you've lost them.

My 'lack of backbone', by the grace of God, took me to sell all my earthly belongings, buy a ticket to Nairobi, end up in Ethiopia teaching Bible, English and basic computer skills. I hadn't a penny to my name when I landed in Ethiopia.

Care for photos?

It's easy to hate and to judge. How far will you go to understand people and help them to deal with their problems?

Matthew 7:1 "Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get.

Luke 6:36 Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful. 37 "Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven

Originally posted by Polycarpadvo
Ok lets have a look at these scriptures you have to back this up. Oh wait, you don't have any. Christ was never forgiving to the blatently proud that were unrepentant of their sin. He never made apologies for His tyrant dad whom He was embarrassed over because He was too harsh. They were in perfect agreement over everything. The bible is full of times where God is harsh with people and He expects us to be harsh with them as well. In the Old Testament as well as the New.

Now we're talking about a 'blatantly proud' homosexual that is 'unrepentant of their sin'.

That's convenient that you know so much about them already. Perhaps it would be best if you could comment on the description of the person's history and relationship with both yourself and God, as it's obvious you know more about the persion in question than has been posed elsewhere in this article.

Originally posted by Polycarpadvo
Ezekial 3:18 When I say to the wicked, "You shall surely die" and you give him no warning, nor speak to him of his wicked ways, that same man shall die in his iniquity but his blood I will require of your hand.
Prov. 1:26 I also laugh at your calamity. I will mock you when you terror comes.
Prov. 11:20 Those that are of a preverse heart are an abomination to the Lord
2 Ch 19:2 ...Shouldest thou help the ungodly and love them that hate the Lord?
Psalm5:6 The Lord abhors the bloodthirsty man.
Psalm 11:5 The Lord trieth the righteous but the
wicked and those that loveth violence His soul hates.
Matt 7:5 Thou hypocrite...
Matt 10:22 And ye shall be hated by all men for my name sake.
Matt 10:34 ...I came not to send peace but a sword.
Matt 15:13 Every plant that my heavenly father hath not planted shall be rooted up.
Luke 11:40 Ye fools...
Luke 12:20 Thou fool...
Luke 12:56 Ye hypocrites
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
Romans 9:23 says and I Peter 2:8 says that Jesus is "The Rock of offense"


Again nothing to scriptural to back this up.
Prov27:5 Open rebuke is better than love carefully concealed.
According to God my way are the actions that should be carried out. Not yours.

No idea what you're trying to say with your shorthand list of scriptures here.

 

[Poly]

Originally posted by AsLan


My 'lack of backbone', by the grace of God, took me to sell all my earthly belongings, buy a ticket to Nairobi, end up in Ethiopia teaching Bible, English and basic computer skills. I hadn't a penny to my name when I landed in Ethiopia.

Well, good for you. If you can do something like this then why can you not do something God has specifically told you to do in His word like hate those that love iniquity?

Matthew 7:1 "Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Luke 6:36 Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful. 37 "Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven."

I'll not do as you chose to do and tell you that I have no idea what you are trying to say with these verses. I know exactly what you are trying to say by using this as an excuse not to have to confront anyone.

Last I checked I was not a homosexual so the "judgement I am pronouncing" I will not be judged by so the "measure I give" will not be the measure I get. This is not a verse saying we are never to judge. God commands us to judge but not hypocritically as Matt. 7:1 says. Verse 3 says to get the speck out (not a speck of homosexuality do I have) THEN you can judge. He would not have put the latter part of that verse in if we were never to judge. But incase this isn't good enough for you let me list some other verses that you will "have no idea what I am trying to say". (Just put a couple of brain cells together, Aslan. You'll get it.)
Luke 7:43...Thou hast judged rightly.
Luke 12:57 Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?
1 Cor 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? How much more things things that pertain to this life?
1 Cor 11:13 Judge in yourselves...
Isaiah 54:17 ....and every tongue that shall rise agaisnt thee in judgment thou shalt condemn.

Now we're talking about a 'blatantly proud' homosexual that is 'unrepentant of their sin'.

Again you are trying to win an arguement in lying or being deceitful about somebody else. You specifically asked me on a previous post

When you say 'them', you bigot, are you talking about 'christian' or secular gays, are they sexually active, are they just possibly attracted to the other sex, or are you just comfortable with your nice and tidy box of hatred, and really couldn't care less?

To which I responded

When I say "them" (ick) I mean those haughty good for nothing God hating homos. The ones who are proud of what they do and have no remorse. And yes I'm quite comfortable with my hatred towards them because it is required of me by my God. I'm zealous over Him and will not allow "them" to drag his name through the dirt. If this is the definition of bigot then so be it. It is a shame however that people will put homos in the same catagory as those who are unjustly descriminated against. "They" ride on the coat tails of respectful people because "they" know that "they" are hard for people to tolerate.

There's no reason for me to think that we are not still talking about "them". But you would love for it to look as though I am meaning even the unrepentant or say such things as "NOW, I am talking about..." as though I am changing my tune. If you feel that what you have to say is true and of God then it is your responsibilty to show where I am wrong through scripture and what God has to say about it. Not by using deceiving tactics.

 

[AsLan]

Originally posted by Polycarpadvo


Well, good for you. If you can do something like this then why can you not do something God has specifically told you to do in His word like hate those that love iniquity?

If you feel that the Bible tells you to 'hate those that love iniquity' then go ahead, but you're wrong. First of all, how can you judge men's hearts as to whether they love iniquity or not? I assume if you see one man kiss another, they love iniquity, they are haughty God-hating people?

Originally posted by Polycarpadvo I'll not do as you chose to do and tell you that I have no idea what you are trying to say with these verses. I know exactly what you are trying to say by using this as an excuse not to have to confront anyone.

I have no lack of courage. I'm not backing down from your weak, hate-based, misinterpretation of the Bible, and I don't back down speaking to people in person. I'm not lying when I say that your choice of scriptures do not have anything to do with how Christ told us to relate to people.

Originally posted by Polycarpadvo Last I checked I was not a homosexual so the "judgement I am pronouncing" I will not be judged by so the "measure I give" will not be the measure I get. This is not a verse saying we are never to judge. God commands us to judge but not hypocritically as Matt. 7:1 says. Verse 3 says to get the speck out (not a speck of homosexuality do I have) THEN you can judge. He would not have put the latter part of that verse in if we were never to judge. But incase this isn't good enough for you let me list some other verses that you will "have no idea what I am trying to say". (Just put a couple of brain cells together, Aslan. You'll get it.)

Sarcasm and calling me stupid. Your colours show through here with brilliant contrasts and hues.

I'll go no further with you.

 

[Hank]

Poly you never replied to my post but it is interesting that you used part of this Bible verse. The whole verse reads:

Matt. 7:[5] Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Of course usually Jesus was referring to the self-righteous Pharisees when he used the word hypocrite.

 

[Goose]

Originally posted by Hank
Of course usually Jesus was referring to the self-righteous Pharisees when he used the word hypocrite.

Actually, I think he was talking to just the random people that were listening to him there. Jesus called some of his best friends "Satan". Jesus called it like he saw it.

 

[Poly]

Originally posted by AsLan


If you feel that the Bible tells you to 'hate those that love iniquity' then go ahead, but you're wrong.

Oh really?

2 Ch 19:2 ...Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the Lord?

Psalm 129:31 Do not I hate them that hate Thee, O Lord?
Psalm 129:32 I hate them with a perfect hatred.

Rom 12:9 Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor that which is evil.

I'll go no further with you.

And who could blame you when you are unable to back up what you say.

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by AsLan


Since I'm the one to whom you're speaking, allow me to tell you if you're being clear or not. Do you judge yourself like this in all areas? Let me tell you, you're not being clear.

Now your definition of fellowship is simply the amount of time spent with the rebel in question. What are the time frames that you've used in your years of experience? The intimacy is still there obviously, as you've said that there can be hugs and quiet chats, etc.

I think perhaps it would be easiest for you to describe a successful case of your application of this theory.

Moral clarity is not subjective as you assume. Homosexuality is a sin. At least we are clear on this.

In regards to "fellowship"--it can be subjective--one needs to rely upon ones conscience and the direction of the Holy Spirit (that is if you are a believer in Christ).

AsLan, now stop acting like a brat and THINK about what I wrote.

 

[Hank]

Actually, I think he was talking to just the random people that were listening to him there. Jesus called some of his best friends "Satan". Jesus called it like he saw it.

I know that Goose. I was careful to say usually, I didn’t say it was right then.

 

[AsLan]

Originally posted by Freak


Moral clarity is not subjective as you assume. Homosexuality is a sin. At least we are clear on this.

In regards to "fellowship"--it can be subjective--one needs to rely upon ones conscience and the direction of the Holy Spirit (that is if you are a believer in Christ).

AsLan, now stop acting like a brat and THINK about what I wrote.

I'm thinking.

Homosexuality isn't an action, it's a person's sexual orientation. You can't 'homosexual'. 'Lust' or 'anal sex with a man' or 'premarital sex' may very well be sins, however your all encompassing sexual orientation term, whether for celibates or not, christians or not, doesn't really hold much water in a practical sense, with what I've experienced in life.

My thoughts lead me to think that you can't describe in a short paragraph an actual instance where you utilized this 'communicate but not fellowship' technique.

I'm beginning to think that it's just a vague theory you read somewhere.

Is it really that difficult to describe how to physically, practically carry out this style of relationship using one instance, no names, in detail?

 

[calvinistkid]

<quote by Poly>
I have spoken to ex homosexuals who said that they would not have turned to God except for the fact that somebody was harsh enough to care. People who say nothing but things like "God is love" and "God loves you and so do I" make those who hate God and living in sin, want to vomit. The lovey Christian world today has no backbone. Nothing but a bunch of jello Christians. When you get tough with one you cause them to stick around and fight. Not run because they are about to be sick over your "Lovey" God. When they stick around there's a chance for them to know truth. When they run, you've lost them.
<end quote>
I didn't think I would ever hear myself say this, but AMEN Poly!!! The "gospel" taught in so many churches completely cuts out concepts such as the holiness of God and instead paints him as an all-accepting grandfather type figure. We need to return to the scriptural concept of a God who is loving, but also will not tolerate sin.

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by AsLan


I'm thinking.

Homosexuality isn't an action, it's a person's sexual orientation. You can't 'homosexual'. 'Lust' or 'anal sex with a man' or 'premarital sex' may very well be sins, however your all encompassing sexual orientation term, whether for celibates or not, christians or not, doesn't really hold much water in a practical sense, with what I've experienced in life.

My thoughts lead me to think that you can't describe in a short paragraph an actual instance where you utilized this 'communicate but not fellowship' technique.

I'm beginning to think that it's just a vague theory you read somewhere.

Is it really that difficult to describe how to physically, practically carry out this style of relationship using one instance, no names, in detail?

If you can't use commone sense then I seriously question if you'd ever understand.

Homosexuality is the practice of homosexual behaviour which would include all the perverse practices you have mentioned. Now, you would agree homosexual practices are evil, correct?

Vague theory? I'm not vague. Homosexuality is a perverse evil that God abhors. Is that vague? Believers in Christ should not be buddy buddy with homosexuals. Is that vague? We ought to love homosexuals and affirm their value before God. Is that vague?

Stopping being an idiot and THINK!

 

[AsLan]

sigh.

 

[Freak]

Originally posted by AsLan
sigh.

 

[Hank]

AsLan although Freak and I agree on very little, I often side with him because of the following:

1. He stands by his principles.
2. He has a good heart.

I think if you will reread what he is saying, you might come to the same conclusion. I believe Freak is truly trying to follow the teachings of Jesus, especially concerning loving others. Compare this to the diatribe that Poly produced against homo-sexuals in this thread. She doesn’t have a clue about the teachings of Jesus.