What is the express image of God?

[daqq]

You mean its more like "because I say so". It is the ego's projection/assumption that 'God' is endorsing or claiming the 'dogmata' as His own,...but things get blurry where the 'ego' and 'God' get con-fused

My 'cornucopia' post shared earlier holds,...as well as the basic metaphysics behind the function of 'imagery' in consciousness,...for an original MIND is always the source of images that arise being born from its womb. Hence the 'logos' is seen as a 'Son' that is 'eternally begotten',....because that creative wellspring of divine logic and thought, is ever arising from within the Father, in his act of engaging CREATION. Any and all images arising from The Universal Father (The First Source and Center)....are generations of 'God',....'offspring', 'progeny', 'creations' of 'God'. This includes all sons of God, angels and man. I don't think you need a course in metaphysics to see this.

It is well enough to recognize the image of God and what that image REVEALS, going to the heart-source of it, then further into spiritual communion and ultimately worship. We use the 'image' to go deeper into communion with the Spirit, and this spirit-to-spirit communion is true worship. The 'image' itself is not it, (just like a 'word' is not the thing itself)....and such a mistaken gesture is at the heart of idolatry.

As far as the term 'saved' goes its 'over-rated' and 'over-used', since anyone can claim to be 'saved', and have that mean anything they want. Whoop-dee-doo. Being 'saved' really is a more intimate personal experience of real communion with God, the process of dying to the ego, sanctification, purification, etc. Being 'saved' is a daily process, as long as one needs 'salvation' in any instant or circumstance,...but here again, we stretch our definitions to whatever meanings suits us.


pj

So then, the Ego-Beasts of Man must die!

Hebrews 8:8-12 KJV (Jeremiah 31:31-34)
8. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9. Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11. And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Jeremiah 31:26-34 KJV
26. Upon this I awaked, and beheld; my sleep was sweet unto me.
27. Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.
28. And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the Lord.
29. In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.
30. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.
31. Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32. Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33. But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

:sheep:

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

So then, the Ego-Beasts of Man must die!

Hebrews 8:8-12 KJV (Jeremiah 31:31-34)
8. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9. Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11. And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Jeremiah 31:26-34 KJV
26. Upon this I awaked, and beheld; my sleep was sweet unto me.
27. Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.
28. And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the Lord.
29. In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.
30. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.
31. Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32. Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33. But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

:sheep:

You've found a friend and possible fellow "Urantian" believer. It's
a wonderful 'UFO Cult.' Enjoy. Little green men will notify you if
you've been accepted?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

It's not YOUR thread. You may be the OP but the thread is not yours to control the normal rule for a forum is to STAY on topic. The OWNER is TOL but as you have always been on the losing end of things here, it's not surprising you would want someone to deflect the issue.

You've been here since May of this year, and you're barking orders already? Is this a "Coup?"

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Where do all the weirdoes come from?

I've been wondering about you, as well?

 

[daqq]

Human is a species name, NOT legal. Do you have a point?

Where do all the weirdoes come from?

Dear Stan, have you been paying any attention at all to the things which have said to you in this thread from the Scripture? Have you been counting the days or are you likely going to end up as a late autumn tree having born no fruit? TWICE DEAD, plucked up by the roots, like a raging wave of the sea foaming out of his mouth his own shame? A wandering star, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever? the reprobate-castaway carcass of a rotting fish? For the Master says, as you should know, that the kingdom of the heavens is like a net that is cast into the sea, (Matthew 13:47-50).

Lucky is the lion that a man will eat because the lion will become that man. Unclean is the man that the lion will eat because the lion still becomes that man. Him with ears of Spirit, let him hear, (Thomas #7, Daniel 4:16, Daniel 7:4, Revelation 13:2). :crackup:

And as already said; just like his fathers, murder-death-kill, all the day long: but the spirit of Elymas that whispers in your ear has two horns like a lamb and speaks like a dragon, and StanJ himself has the mouth of a lion. For whatsoever comes out from the mouth of the man proceeds from the heart of the man in the doctrine of Yeshua; for out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, and blasphemies: for the heart of the man is given over to the beast of a great lioness. Won't be long now, eh Stan? A she-bear robbed of her cubs is surely on her way, then comes a leopardess, and before you know it you find yourself wed to the queen of the south Sheba-Seven heads as in the days of Noah. "And who shall live when EL doeth this?" :crackup:

Poor, poor, Ephraim, ask him to say shibbolet and a pair of she-bears come rushing forth out his own wood screaming cibbolet and cleaving forty-two younglings of his own. Take him down to the Yarden, immerse him into the death, perhaps then he will learn to say shibbolet, (and forty-two thousand at that time). For thus says YHWH concerning His New Covenant: "Is Ephraim my dear son? is he a pleasant child? for since I spoke against him, I do earnestly remember him still: therefore my bowels are troubled for him; I will surely have mercy upon him, says YHWH. How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for YHWH has created a new thing in the land: nqebah-female shall compass geber-man." Upon this I awoke, and beheld, and my sleep was sweet unto me: "Behold, the days come, says YHWH, that I will sow the house of Yisrael and the house of Yhudah with the seed of man and with the seed of beast." But this is for our own good as I told you: for the prideful hand of the holy people must be completely shattered before a man will truly sober up and repent:

Hosea 13:1-11
1. When Ephraim spoke there was trembling, he exalted himself in Yisrael; but when he offended in Baal, he died.
2. And now they sin more and more, and have made them molten images of their silver, and idols according to their own understanding, all of it the work of the craftsmen: they say of them, "Let the men that sacrifice kiss the calves!"
3. Therefore they shall be as the morning cloud and as the early dew that passes away, as the chaff that is driven with the whirlwind out of the threshing floor, and as the smoke out of the stack.
4. Yet I am YHWH thy Elohim from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no elohim beside [equal to] me: for there is no Savior without me.
5. I did know thee in the wilderness in the land of great drought.
6. According to their pasture, so were they filled; they were filled, and their heart was exalted; therefore have they forgotten Me.
7. Therefore I will be unto them as a lion: as a leopard by the way will I observe them:
8. I will meet them as a bear that is bereaved of her cubs, and will tear open the breastplate of their heart, and there will I devour them like a lion: the wild beast shall cleave them.
9. O Yisrael, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in me is thine help.
10. I will be thy King: where is any other that may save thee in all thy cities? and thy judges of whom thou said, Give me a king and princes?
11. I gave thee a king in mine anger: and I will take him away in my fury!

Have you not read that Messiah has been made the Minister of Circumcision, (Romans 15:8) and this for the Truth of God? The Father will use your own wild beasts and bring them to rise up against you so as to cleave open that chestplate of iron which you have allowed to harden over your heart. And Zerubbabel Himself will remove the head stone of your heart in that day: there will be shoutings of "Grace! Grace to him!" (if indeed you overcome in your appointed time). Then shall you truly know the grace of God.

Likewise you blaspheme those tabernacling in the heavens with the mouth of a lion just as I said: for whatsoever comes forth from the mouth proceeds from the heart of the man, and those things defile the man in the Testimony of Yeshua, (Matthew 15:18-19). Your heart is given over of your own accord to the wild beast of a lioness which has consumed it with with your own self righteousness and pride, (Daniel 4:16, Daniel 7:4). The only question for you is what are seven times and what are forty-two months? :crackup:

Revelation 13:5-6
5. And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty-two months.
6. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name and his tabernacle; those tabernacling in the heavens.

If you do not want me to respond to you then stop blaspheming God, His Son, His Teacher, and His people which are tabernacled in the heavens. Yet it is really far too late for that now is it not? You indeed have a king, and his seven on the way, which the Father gave you in his anger but will take away in His fury for your own good ending: perhaps then shall you begin to understand my words which come from the scripture. For now you understand nothing but the flesh, as a carnal man, seeing all things according to the eyes and mind of the flesh and walking according to your belly as a serpent: dead man walking.

Matthew 7:1-12
1. Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4. Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5. Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
6. Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
7. Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8. For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
9. Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
10. Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
11. If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
12. Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

There it is plain as day Stan: the Torah and the Prophets, and because you cannot prove any of your false accusations, calling others false teachers and apostates, and yet you yourself have no answers for what was already put to you from the scripture at the very same time you began to assassinate the characters of others simply because they disagree with your unsupported dogma; you now have clearly put yourself right back under the Law and the Prophets. All things written therein apply therefore to you:

Proverbs 30:11-15 KJV
11. There is a generation [1] that curseth their father, and doth not bless their mother.
12. There is a generation [2] that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness.
13. There is a generation, [3] O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up.
14. There is a generation, [4] whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, [Daniel 7:7 teeth of iron] to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men.
15. The horseleach [5] hath two daughters, [6-7] crying, Give, give. There are three things that are never satisfied, yea, four things say not, It is enough:

Matthew 12:38-45 KJV
38. Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39. But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation [1] seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40. For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41. The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, [2] and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
42. The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, [3] and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
43. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation [4].

Do you also disregard and toss aside the words of Paul when he tells you that you served the prince of the power of the air at one time, (Ephesians 2:2) but that now you have supposedly not received the spirit of the world, (1 Corinthians 2:11-12)? Where do you suppose that unclean spirit of the he-goat not touching the ground went out to when he went forth from you Stan? Is there anything you actually do believe that is written in the holy scriptures? And as I said, next comes the queen of the south, Sheba-Seven heads, and I speak directly from the Testimony of Yeshua: no exceptions to the rule, but if the prince of the power of the air was never cast out of you to begin with then I suppose you need not worry about him returning with seven other spirits more wicked than himself. :crackup:

You do not know the Master so it will be for your own good, (if indeed you overcome in your appointed time). Otherwise you will never truly repent and be saved-delivered.

Not one little horn shall pass til all these things be fulfilled, Stan the Man. :wave:

:sheep:

 

[daqq]

You've found a friend and possible fellow "Urantian" believer. It's
a wonderful 'UFO Cult.' Enjoy. Little green men will notify you if
you've been accepted?

You too will die in your sins just as I did . . .

 

[Ben Masada]

Any more opinions on What is the express image of God?

The express image of God is found in the attributes of God if you understand the following essay:

Impersonations of Attributes - Genesis 1:26

"Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. Let them have dominion over... the whole earth."

The above passage of Genesis has been for years the trump card in the hands of Trinitarians to drop at the right time in the assumed thought that it will guarantee them to clean up the table, so to speak. Well, let them think again, because I have news. It's no longer that easy.

Elohim is incorporeal, and incorporeality reflects no image. But then again, how to harmonize the use of the pronouns in the plural form? The attributes of God, which are part of His essence, were impersonations involved in the formation of man.

Bear in mind that only in the creation of man was the statement issued: To make man at God's image. Since God has no visible image, and man does, it's only obvious that man's image would be according to God's attributes. Therefore, His attributes in a relative portion, were the active agent in the formation of man.

Now, it's imperative to focus on the pronouns used by the sacred writer, since the pronouns are anyways what Trinitarians use to think they have made their day. "Let US make MAN in OUR image and likeness. And let THEM have dominion over everything on earth."

Now, focus on the word MAN. It is in the singular form. Nevertheless, the purpose is for THEM to dominate the earth. If THEM were a reference to man, a clarification would be in order to explain the discrepancy in the Grammar. I mean, that it would be a reference to all men. This lack of clarification was not a lapse of the author, but intentional will to direct our minds to the attributes of God, which took part in the formation of man.

It's interesting and just convenient for Trinitarians to rapidly refer "us" and "our" to God Himself and hide any word of explanation on the plural pronoun "them," which could not be a reference to man. I hope they do not do this on purpose because it would be spiritual cruelty to hide the truth.

I hope we have settled this issue. Since "them" is not a reference to man but to the attributes of God, it's only obvious that "us" and "our" are not references to God Himself but to His attributes. Therefore, the Creator of the Universe is He Who has dominion over the whole of the Universe through man by way of His attributes.

Conclusion:

It's more than obvious that Israel could not uphold the banner of absolute Monotheism in God, and start the Scriptures with statements of plurality in God. The whole issue therefore, was impersonation of attributes.

 

[daqq]

The express image of God is found in the attributes of God if you understand the following essay:

Impersonations of Attributes - Genesis 1:26

"Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. Let them have dominion over... the whole earth."

The above passage of Genesis has been for years the trump card in the hands of Trinitarians to drop at the right time in the assumed thought that it will guarantee them to clean up the table, so to speak. Well, let them think again, because I have news. It's no longer that easy.

Elohim is incorporeal, and incorporeality reflects no image. But then again, how to harmonize the use of the pronouns in the plural form? The attributes of God, which are part of His essence, were impersonations involved in the formation of man.

Bear in mind that only in the creation of man was the statement issued: To make man at God's image. Since God has no visible image, and man does, it's only obvious that man's image would be according to God's attributes. Therefore, His attributes in a relative portion, were the active agent in the formation of man.

Now, it's imperative to focus on the pronouns used by the sacred writer, since the pronouns are anyways what Trinitarians use to think they have made their day. "Let US make MAN in OUR image and likeness. And let THEM have dominion over everything on earth."

Now, focus on the word MAN. It is in the singular form. Nevertheless, the purpose is for THEM to dominate the earth. If THEM were a reference to man, a clarification would be in order to explain the discrepancy in the Grammar. I mean, that it would be a reference to all men. This lack of clarification was not a lapse of the author, but intentional will to direct our minds to the attributes of God, which took part in the formation of man.

It's interesting and just convenient for Trinitarians to rapidly refer "us" and "our" to God Himself and hide any word of explanation on the plural pronoun "them," which could not be a reference to man. I hope they do not do this on purpose because it would be spiritual cruelty to hide the truth.

I hope we have settled this issue. Since "them" is not a reference to man but to the attributes of God, it's only obvious that "us" and "our" are not references to God Himself but to His attributes. Therefore, the Creator of the Universe is He Who has dominion over the whole of the Universe through man by way of His attributes.

Conclusion:

It's more than obvious that Israel could not uphold the banner of absolute Monotheism in God, and start the Scriptures with statements of plurality in God. The whole issue therefore, was impersonation of attributes.

Nice try but the argument falls apart once a person realizes that 'adam is actually corporate in meaning. There is not a plural form of 'adam in Torah because Adam is Man. The so-called "first Adam" is representative of the "corporate body of mankind" just as the Tanach body of the faithful were the "Body of Moshe" before the Resurrection and the New Covenant body of the faithful is the "Body of Messiah" according to the apostolic writers. If you look in the Septuagint version of Genesis 1:26 you will find "anthropon", which is a plural form of anthropos, as in "men" or "mankind", ("Let us make anthropon" - Man or Mankind) and that tells you how the word 'adam was understood by the Body of Moshe almost three hundred years before the advent of Messiah. If you think not then see if you can find a plural form of 'adam used anywhere in Torah, (for starters).

:sheep:

 

[Ben Masada]

Nice try but the argument falls apart once a person realizes that 'adam is actually corporate in meaning. There is not a plural form of 'adam in Torah because Adam is Man. The so-called "first Adam" is representative of the "corporate body of mankind" just as the Tanach body of the faithful were the "Body of Moshe" before the Resurrection and the New Covenant body of the faithful is the "Body of Messiah" according to the apostolic writers. If you look in the Septuagint version of Genesis 1:26 you will find "anthropon", which is a plural form of anthropos, as in "men" or "mankind", ("Let us make anthropon" - Man or Mankind) and that tells you how the word 'adam was understood by the Body of Moshe almost three hundred years before the advent of Messiah. If you think not then see if you can find a plural form of 'adam used anywhere in Torah, (for starters).

:sheep:

Nice try but your argument also falls apart once a person realizes that Jesus was a Jewish man and, there is nothing Jewish about this text of yours above. Regarding Adam representing Mankind, I have nothing against it. I totally agree with the point. It does not help you to bring Greek into a text about a Jew who never had any thing to do with Christian Hellenism. Establish first that you are talking about a Greek Jesus and not a Jewish Yeshua. You cannot mix apples with oranges.

 

[StanJ]

Dear Stan, have you been paying any attention at all to the things which have said to you in this thread from the Scripture?

Which WHO has said to me daqq?
Your onerous posts I lose interest in after a couple of lines, so not I don't pay attention to your posts. They are extremely verbose, and from experience, contain very little truth or relativeness.
If you want to make a point, try making ONE at a time because my AADD gets in the way and prevents me from having ANY desire to read them as you currently post.

 

[daqq]

Nice try but your argument also falls apart once a person realizes that Jesus was a Jewish man and, there is nothing Jewish about this text of yours above. Regarding Adam representing Mankind, I have nothing against it. I totally agree with the point. It does not help you to bring Greek into a text about a Jew who never had any thing to do with Christian Hellenism. Establish first that you are talking about a Greek Jesus and not a Jewish Yeshua. You cannot mix apples with oranges.

:sherlock: Hmmm, that's funny, your reply makes no sense whatsoever unless I simply take it as a violent repulsion to the mere mention of the word "Septuagint". Otherwise you must not understand exactly WHO it was that rendered that text three hundred years before the advent of Messiah Yeshua. Or is it that name that repulses you? Yeshua HaMeshiach, Yeshua HaMashiyach, or what about Yeshua Moshiya? Yep, the Deliverer, because he gave his Testimony without which you cannot understand Torah or be "Saved"(TM). :crackup:

:Christine

 

[StanJ]

Hmmm, that's funny, your reply makes no sense whatsoever unless I simply take it as a violent repulsion to the mere mention of the word "Septuagint". Otherwise you must not understand exactly WHO it was that rendered that text three hundred years before the advent of Messiah Yeshua. Or is it that name that repulses you? Yeshua HaMeshiach, Yeshua HaMashiyach, or what about Yeshua Moshiya? Yep, the Deliverer, because he gave his Testimony without which you cannot understand Torah or be "Saved"(TM).

What exactly does OTHER mean in your profile daqq. Obviously you are NOT a Christian so what are you? At least Ben is honest enough to show what his theological disposition is.

 

[Ben Masada]

:sherlock: Hmmm, that's funny, your reply makes no sense whatsoever unless I simply take it as a violent repulsion to the mere mention of the word "Septuagint". Otherwise you must not understand exactly WHO it was that rendered that text three hundred years before the advent of Messiah Yeshua. Or is it that name that repulses you? Yeshua HaMeshiach, Yeshua HaMashiyach, or what about Yeshua Moshiya? Yep, the Deliverer, because he gave his Testimony without which you cannot understand Torah or be "Saved"(TM). :crackup:

:Christine

Jesus was not the Messiah and he never claimed to be it himself. The idea was fabricated by Paul as he confessed the secret to his disciple Timothy in II Tim. 2:8. That's when he said that Jesus was of the lineage of David, son of God and that he had resurrected. (Acts 9:20).

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

This thread has drawn some very odd participants: Daqq, Freelight, and Zeke.

 

[Bright Raven]

Jesus was not the Messiah and he never claimed to be it himself. The idea was fabricated by Paul as he confessed the secret to his disciple Timothy in II Tim. 2:8. That's when he said that Jesus was of the lineage of David, son of God and that he had resurrected. (Acts 9:20).

You are wrong Ben.

John 4:25-26King James Version (KJV)

25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

 

[StanJ]

Jesus was not the Messiah and he never claimed to be it himself. The idea was fabricated by Paul as he confessed the secret to his disciple Timothy in II Tim. 2:8. That's when he said that Jesus was of the lineage of David, son of God and that he had resurrected. (Acts 9:20).

No so....
Matt 26:63-64 (NIV)
“I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.” “You have said so,” Jesus replied.
Mark 14:60-62 (NIV)
Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?” “I am,” said Jesus.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You are wrong Ben.

John 4:25-26King James Version (KJV)

25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

Good post BR. We need some sanity in this thread.

 

[daqq]

Jesus was not the Messiah and he never claimed to be it himself. The idea was fabricated by Paul as he confessed the secret to his disciple Timothy in II Tim. 2:8. That's when he said that Jesus was of the lineage of David, son of God and that he had resurrected. (Acts 9:20).

Yes, of the lineage of David, and that is no secret. But have you never read John 4:25-26? And which one is the Messiah in that passage? Is it the man standing before the woman or the Voice that is speaking to her as seems to be implied? The Testimony of Yeshua is the Son of man and without it you will not understand Torah except in the carnal way of the traditions of your fathers. And the text you have chosen to uphold over the Septuagint came seven hundred to a thousand years after the advent of Messiah, (and about twelve hundred years after the Septuagint) and it was compiled by non-believing Khazars, and there are many errors in it, and many of them are blatant and intentional. Sorry for your luck.

:sheep:

 

[keypurr]

The express image of God is found in the attributes of God if you understand the following essay:

Impersonations of Attributes - Genesis 1:26

"Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. Let them have dominion over... the whole earth."

The above passage of Genesis has been for years the trump card in the hands of Trinitarians to drop at the right time in the assumed thought that it will guarantee them to clean up the table, so to speak. Well, let them think again, because I have news. It's no longer that easy.

Elohim is incorporeal, and incorporeality reflects no image. But then again, how to harmonize the use of the pronouns in the plural form? The attributes of God, which are part of His essence, were impersonations involved in the formation of man.

Bear in mind that only in the creation of man was the statement issued: To make man at God's image. Since God has no visible image, and man does, it's only obvious that man's image would be according to God's attributes. Therefore, His attributes in a relative portion, were the active agent in the formation of man.

Now, it's imperative to focus on the pronouns used by the sacred writer, since the pronouns are anyways what Trinitarians use to think they have made their day. "Let US make MAN in OUR image and likeness. And let THEM have dominion over everything on earth."

Now, focus on the word MAN. It is in the singular form. Nevertheless, the purpose is for THEM to dominate the earth. If THEM were a reference to man, a clarification would be in order to explain the discrepancy in the Grammar. I mean, that it would be a reference to all men. This lack of clarification was not a lapse of the author, but intentional will to direct our minds to the attributes of God, which took part in the formation of man.

It's interesting and just convenient for Trinitarians to rapidly refer "us" and "our" to God Himself and hide any word of explanation on the plural pronoun "them," which could not be a reference to man. I hope they do not do this on purpose because it would be spiritual cruelty to hide the truth.

I hope we have settled this issue. Since "them" is not a reference to man but to the attributes of God, it's only obvious that "us" and "our" are not references to God Himself but to His attributes. Therefore, the Creator of the Universe is He Who has dominion over the whole of the Universe through man by way of His attributes.

Conclusion:

It's more than obvious that Israel could not uphold the banner of absolute Monotheism in God, and start the Scriptures with statements of plurality in God. The whole issue therefore, was impersonation of attributes.

Ben my friend, I understand your position. I also believe that there is only one true God. But I do believe his first creation was his express image. Since God is a spirit, his express image is a spirit, not a man. However that spirit being was with God at the creation. Mainstream Christian churches have held on to error ridden fables since the first century. That fail to see what is in the words because of tradition. We all have done that Ben, but we need to overcome tradition to find the truth. I believe that God created his son and sent him to us to dwell in a man. I know that can be hard to digest, but suppose it is true? Would it change our lives and give us hope for a peaceful one? I pray that it would friend.

 

[keypurr]

This thread has drawn some very odd participants: Daqq, Freelight, and Zeke.

You forgot me.