What do you not understand wit5h theswe verses?

keypurr

keypurr

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jamie said:
The Logos is the Word of YHVH who spoke to the prophets. He became human just as John explains and died on the afternoon of April 6, 30 CE.

Since the penalty for unrepented sin is spiritual death, the Word died physically and spiritualy. The Word was stone cold dead. Gone.
He would have been dead forever had not his Father intervened and changed the Word back to his former state as a God.

We will join the Word and be like him in character, his express image.
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I believe that the logos is the spiritual son.
In a way saying it is the word is only part correct. For the son gives us the words on his father.
 
keypurr

keypurr

Well-known member
jamie said:
The Word had said through prophets that Messiah would be a son of David. The Word as God was not a son of David so he was born of woman as a native Son of Judah to be the King of Israel.
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The WORD was NOT BORN, the WORD was SENT. Proves my point, the word is not the logos but the one who brings the word. The express image, there is only ONE express image of the Father. And there will be no more.
 
jamie

jamie

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keypurr said:
I believe that the logos is the spiritual son.
In a way saying it is the word is only part correct. For the son gives us the words on his father.
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Logos is translated in John 1:1 as the Word. And the Logos was born of woman as the Son of Man as well as the Son of God.
 
steko

steko

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keypurr said:
The translators have changed the originals:

Note the AENT, it is more accurate.

Luke 2:11
For born to you all today (is the) Saviour that is Master YHWH THE Mashiyach, in the city of Dawid.

Mashiyach refers to Messiah Y’shua.

Your Greek translations have caused misleading verses friend. Go to the Aramaic. Get another view or the verse in question.
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I think it's interesting that the AENT calls Yeshua Mashiah, YHVH.
 
keypurr

keypurr

Well-known member
jamie said:
Logos is translated in John 1:1 as the Word. And the Logos was born of woman as the Son of Man as well as the Son of God.
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I think the Greek is wrong here.

ARAMAIC ENGLISH NEW TESTAMENT

YOCHANAN (JOHN)
Chapter 1
1. In the beginning was the Miltha. And that Miltha was with Elohim. And Elohim was that Miltha.
2. This was with Elohim in the beginning.
3. Everything existed through his hands……….

Miltha refers to the “Manifestation” of the Ruach haKodesh within Mashiyach. The physical body of Mashiyach is not the Word of YHWH, but his words and actions demonstrate the Will and Word of YHWH, which upholds observance of Torah.

Miltha is the spiritual son of Elohim (God).
Mashiyach refers to Messiah Y’shua (Jesus Christ)
YHWH is the name of the most high God.
Ruach haKodesh is the Holy Spirit.
Elohim is God or a god, it can refer to more than the creator.
 
R

RBBI

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I see we're right where I left off on this. The law of the Seed is not that hard to understand, surely....Peace
 
Bright Raven

Bright Raven

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keypurr said:
Learn other translations for the KJV is not perfect.
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Since when is God's word not perfect?

2 Timothy 3:16New American Standard Bible (NASB)

16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
 
csuguy

csuguy

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The nutty thing about the Trinity is just how much you need to invent to support it. Nowhere does scripture teach that "God" = "three persons" who are said to be "one" on account of their shared "substance" or some such thing. Complete sophistry.

Scripture does teach that there is God, who is the Father, and that their is the Son, Jesus, a man. But apparently they can't be trusted to describe their relationship - so we dismiss these terms by instead addressing them as "God the Son" and "God the HS". They ignore the vast wealth of scriptures that clearly differentiate Jesus, the man, from God Almighty (not just "Father", but "God")

Scripture plainly teaches that the Father is greater than the Son, that the Son was given all power and authority, that he acts as the Father instructs him, that in the end he will himself be made subject to God. All this is ignored and they make up the fiction that "oh - this was only speaking of him while living here as a man"

Even worse? They treat their non-sensical doctrine, which they declare a "mystery", as THE defining doctrine of a Christian. They reject nay-sayers for a completely irrelevant doctrine that ultimately has nothing to do with the Gospel or living as a Christian. The doctrine adds nothing to one's understanding of God, nor does it guide one's life in any meaningful way.
 
keypurr

keypurr

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csuguy said:
The nutty thing about the Trinity is just how much you need to invent to support it. Nowhere does scripture teach that "God" = "three persons" who are said to be "one" on account of their shared "substance" or some such thing. Complete sophistry.

Scripture does teach that there is God, who is the Father, and that their is the Son, Jesus, a man. But apparently they can't be trusted to describe their relationship - so we dismiss these terms by instead addressing them as "God the Son" and "God the HS". They ignore the vast wealth of scriptures that clearly differentiate Jesus, the man, from God Almighty (not just "Father", but "God")

Scripture plainly teaches that the Father is greater than the Son, that the Son was given all power and authority, that he acts as the Father instructs him, that in the end he will himself be made subject to God. All this is ignored and they make up the fiction that "oh - this was only speaking of him while living here as a man"

Even worse? They treat their non-sensical doctrine, which they declare a "mystery", as THE defining doctrine of a Christian. They reject nay-sayers for a completely irrelevant doctrine that ultimately has nothing to do with the Gospel or living as a Christian. The doctrine adds nothing to one's understanding of God, nor does it guide one's life in any meaningful way.
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Great post, why will they not listen to us?

Sent from my SM-T330NU using TheologyOnline mobile app
 
Lon

Lon

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csuguy said:
The nutty thing about the Trinity is just how much you need to invent to support it. Nowhere does scripture teach that "God" = "three persons" who are said to be "one" on account of their shared "substance" or some such thing. Complete sophistry.
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Only if you throw out "...and these three are one..." :plain: There are many scriptures that make it plain and I've always thought you the nut for missing it and the ECF's embracing verses that spell it out. You are against all of Christendom and most with a lot more intelligence. Going against the grain is NOT always the smartest thing to do, and more often than not, 3rd grade cult mentality.

csuguy said:
Scripture does teach that there is God, who is the Father, and that their is the Son, Jesus, a man. But apparently they can't be trusted to describe their relationship - so we dismiss these terms by instead addressing them as "God the Son" and "God the HS". They ignore the vast wealth of scriptures that clearly differentiate Jesus, the man, from God Almighty (not just "Father", but "God")
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You'll likely not get this but let's give it a whirl. Read these: John 10:30 Isaiah 45:5 Hebrews 1:3 John 1:1 John 20:28
Put them together in the ONLY way that makes any kind of sense, without quite understanding how, but embracing all of scripture, and you have nothing but a triune view. All else fails to take God at His word and dismisses or falsely 'logics' around clear scripture teaching after the fashion of all cultists who hate God's word and MUST explain it away. This is ever the reason I've put you on ignore. I either find you dishonest or so anti-intelligent, that it is a waste of time.

Scripture plainly teaches that the Father is greater than the Son, that the Son was given all power and authority, that he acts as the Father instructs him, that in the end he will himself be made subject to God. All this is ignored and they make up the fiction that "oh - this was only speaking of him while living here as a man"
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Er, an 'exact representation' doesn't mean 'greater' in the way you are thinking. One is subordinate to the other, yes, but the same being. Again, John 1:1 says "...with AND was" God. That's triune. Anything else is inept.

csuguy said:
Even worse? They treat their non-sensical doctrine, which they declare a "mystery", as THE defining doctrine of a Christian.
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Um, you have arians on one side throwing away half of scripture and modalists on the other side throwing out the other half. Between you, you have a whole Bible. That always escapes the both of you. ONLY Trinitarians hold to all of the scriptures you two opposing groups alternately throw away/explain away (as if you could, we who are smarter, more intelligent, and not stuck with third-grade mentalities aren't duped).

csuguy said:
They reject nay-sayers for a completely irrelevant doctrine that ultimately has nothing to do with the Gospel or living as a Christian.
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Remember "Are Unit-arians Perverted?" I found that most of you are living yet in the flesh, are 'works' oriented trying to work your way to heaven, and that this group has a lot of potty-mouths.

csuguy said:
The doctrine adds nothing to one's understanding of God, nor does it guide one's life in any meaningful way.
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The sad thing is you are absolutely right. Every tongue will confess and every knee will bow. Unitarians generally do not at all esteem the Son nor hear Him standing at the door to knock and indwell where He will sup with they, and they Him. You lose a ton by dismissing John 20:18. You live without His supernatural indwelling in your lives and you treat Him as a second-rate citizen as portrayed above :
csuguy said:
Scripture does teach that there is God, who is the Father, and that their is the Son, Jesus, a man.
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Only a new creation, recreated 'in Christ Jesus' as born-again will see the kingdom of heaven. It is soley by His hand. We don't make ourselves new creations. We do not and cannot born-again ourselves. It is the work of Christ alone and by His hand. Your Arianism knows no such thing as a Christ who presents us pure before the Father: two beings who are yet the same "with and was" God. John 1:1

There is no other way to read and understand scriptures or become a new creation. "No man comes to the Father" but by Jesus Christ.
It verily demands that you understand His deity. He and the Father are one.
 
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