Ukraine Crisis

[Gary K]

It's not.

Rationalizing Putin's genocidal invasion of Ukraine is. And that's what you've been doing.



You've posted a video asking if the Bucha massacre was a "false flag."

You've talked about Russia's enemies locking them out of SWIFT and trying to destroy their currency.

Who are their enemies, trying to get them - short of entering the war - to stop their genocidal invasion of Ukraine? And why are you framing us in such a way?​

You've said that Russia should be able to invade Ukraine based on your conspiracies about bio labs, and in fact said the U.S. would be justified in doing the same if it was Mexico.


That's only a few of your posts justifying Putin's genocidal invasion of Ukraine.

Are there any posts of yours in support of Ukraine's right and duty to repel the invaders of their country and protect their civilians from rape, torture and death? By all means, point me to those posts because I don't recall seeing them.

Until you do, you are and will continue to be a Putin apologist and an amplifier of Russian propaganda.




I won't hold my breath.

In other words you don't think that 74 years of of provocation is any reason Russia should ever move to protect their own borders. To do that you have to see the Russians as subhuman.

US created and funded bio labs in Ukraine are not a conspiracy theory. The US government has said they they exist. There are documents online that demonstrate this too. Contracts with companies that the US hired to build them. Facts are really stubborn things.

And lastly do the Nazis in Ukraine, which have been made an integral part of the Ukrainian government, have a right to murder ethnic Russians living in the Donbas region? They've been doing it for years.

Donbas war death toll rises up to nearly 13,000 – UN

Up to 30,000 people were wounded and injured as a result of hostilities.

www.unian.info

Donbass: Russians Subject to Unparalleled Ethnic Cleansing

The Ukrainian army continues a large-scale offensive against the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics. Indiscriminate shelling results in more civilian deaths. Grad, Uragan and Smerch…

www.strategic-culture.org

Ukrainian Nationalist Volunteers Committing 'ISIS-Style' War Crimes

Images of what appeared to be the severed heads of two hostages circulated on social media, after a report by Amnesty International accused both sides of war crimes

www.newsweek.com

And Kolomoyskiy is Zekensky's sugar daddy. He's funded everything from Zelensky's tv career to his run for office to providing him with all of his cabinet by allowing Zelensky to use all the employees of the tv station as his administration.

And what about the Minsk ceasefire agreement related to Donbas Ukraine signed but refuses to honor?

Minsk Agreement: Full text in English

The full text of the agreement signed in Minsk on Thursday, February 12. This text was translated into English by UNIAN from a text posted online by the Kremlin. It is not an official translation. Editing clarifications in the text appear in square brackets.

www.unian.info

There is always more than one side to a story. You can't paint the Ukrainian government as innocent of anything. I feel for the average Ukrainian that has been dragged into this as they have no more say in what their government has done than I have any say in what the US government has done.

I know Ukrainians who live in the US and I like them

 

[Idolater]

How is pointing out history apologia?

It isn't. See below though.

Facts are facts. I've never said I support the invasion but have pointed out the Russian reasoning for it.

Like pointing out the reasoning for why a murderer murders? To be 'fair and balanced'? This is crooked! Murderers be murderin, that's the only thing to start with, everything else follows from that fact, which you ignore for some reason. It plays like you don't believe murder is absolutely evil in all cases and under all circumstances.

This is why you're correctly and righteously accused of being an apologist. There's no neutral stance to take morally with murder. "Well, let's think about it from the murderer's view." Let's not.

They have seen the constant incursions and the constant lying as a threat and have stood by without making a military move for more than 70 years. Do you really think the US would have stood the same thing for 70 years without taking military action? Oh, no, I guess we didn't. We went directly to threatening nuclear war over missiles in Cuba in a matter of weeks. And you think Russia should swallow what the US wouldn't? That is extremely hypocritical.

And so therefore, the Russians are justified, even a little bit, for murdering.

Doh! No banana.

 

[Gary K]

It's a matter of historical record, nimnoo:

Operation Osoaviakhim - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Forgotten Rocketeers: German Scientists in the Soviet Union, 1945–1959 - War on the Rocks

On Aug. 21, 1957, in the deserts of central Kazakhstan, flames licked the concrete of the Baikonur Cosmodrome. After three disastrous failed tests, rocket

warontherocks.com

Russian Alsos - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Well you gave at least one credible link.

I did not know that. What is does do is point out just how much like Russia the US government is. And yet you'll buy into everything the US government says and reject everything the Russians say. Doesn't appear like too bright of a position to take.

 

[Gary K]

The fact that Russia has been an international pariah ever since Lenin became dictator in 1917 may be lost on you, but the rest of the world is well aware of it.

LOL. Yeah and US bankers plus the US president funded that revolution. We weren't innocent in that either.

 

[User Name]

LOL. Yeah and US bankers plus the US president funded that revolution. We weren't innocent in that either.

More conspiratardation . The truth:

United States and the Russian Revolution - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Hoping]

And, even if true, how does thar invalidate the CIA arming, training, and funding Nazis in Ukraine for the last 74 years?

How long did you work for the KGB before you got interested in "disinformation"?

 

[User Name]

I did not know that.

1. You claim to be well-read, but there are gaps in your knowledge that are large enough for the Russian military to drive through it.
2. You pride yourself on not having been indoctrinated into disinformation through TV, but did you know that there is many times more disinformation by orders of magnitude to be found on the internet than through television? Well, there is, and you've swallowed much of it. My proof? Your posts.

And don't think I don't have your number. I've read all of this guff before that you've been posting recently, and guess where I read it? That's right, on racist and anti-Semitic websites!

 

[Arthur Brain]

LOL.

Here is what I said, again, as you obviously have memory issues.

There you go. Show my claims are false and I'll show, once again, what what I've said is historical fact. What's the matter? It ought to be simple for you as you tell me everything I say is wrong. Why is it you don't just jump at the opportunity to run me out of this forum???? Because you're just too kind and don't want to embarrass me?

I've never been interested in running anyone out of this forum. I trouble the mods with reports about posters about once every 6.7 years so get a grip. What you state as "fact" is like listening to Alex Jones say he's got some more proof that Sandy Hook was staged frankly.

 

[marke]

The fact that Russia has been an international pariah ever since Lenin became dictator in 1917 may be lost on you, but the rest of the world is well aware of it.

Russia was plunged into atheistic communist slavery under Lenin. Atheistic communism is oppressive and fiscally depressing.

 

[User Name]

Russia was plunged into atheistic communist slavery under Lenin. Atheistic communism is oppressive and fiscally depressing.

Thank you Captain Obvious.

 

[marke]

Thank you Captain Obvious.

In spite of the obvious, we have seen prominent democrats, like Obamagate spy John Brennan, who loved communism and did what he could to seditiously overthrow the legitimate US government under President Donald Trump.

 

[annabenedetti]

In other words you don't think that 74 years of of provocation is any reason Russia should ever move to protect their own borders.

You make Russia sound like an abusive husband: "Ukraine! Look what you made me do!"

You just can't stop apologizing for Putin, can you? More posts rationalizing his behavior, no posts in support of Ukraine. I don't need to connect your dots, you're painting the whole picture.

To do that you have to see the Russians as subhuman.

No I don't. That's you confabulating again.

US created and funded bio labs in Ukraine are not a conspiracy theory. The US government has said they they exist. There are documents online that demonstrate this too. Contracts with companies that the US hired to build them. Facts are really stubborn things.

You don't have facts, you have conspiracy. The U.S. has been upfront about what those bio labs are. They're not the bioweapons factories your conspiracy sites make them out to be, and they weren't a threat to Russia, they were a pretense for Russia to invade, helped along mightily by the Putin-loving right-wing right here in River City.

I've given multiple links in this thread about how the right and Russia amplified the 'bioweapons' conspiracy into something it was not. Try educating yourself on how this disinformation was amplified, for a change.

There is always more than one side to a story. You can't paint the Ukrainian government as innocent of anything. I feel for the average Ukrainian that has been dragged into this as they have no more say in what their government has done than I have any say in what the US government has done.

Okay Putin apologizer. No one in this thread has painted the Ukrainian government of anything except protecting their sovereignty and the lives of their citizens.

Taking your apologia to its final conclusion, you might as well tell Ukraine they should have rolled out the welcome mat for Russia, maybe presented their women and children to the marauders, loaded their weapons for them, given them firing coordinates so their missiles could more accurately destroy their homes, hospitals, and train stations full of civilians. Because provocation!

I know Ukrainians who live in the US and I like them

Why don't you care that their country is being destroyed? Why don't you care their relatives are being raped, murdered, tortured, starved?

With friends like you, who needs enemies? Oh wait...

 

[way 2 go]

This is really interesting because it has been said that there were NATO and US commanders in there. They made a couple of rescue attempts to get the NATO and US commanders out but their rescue helicopters were shot down.

.which is why this guy is up for trade

Slavyangrad (@NuestraIraSLG)

#FLASH—#Zelensky proposes exchanging #Ukraine|ian #POW|s for #Ukrainian opposition leader #Medvedchuk, put on display today by #SBU. Suddenly, the circus with him appearing out of nowhere for the 1st time in weeks makes sense. #Zelensky knew about the massive #Mariupol surrender.

nitter.net

 

[ok doser]

 

[annabenedetti]

1. You claim to be well-read, but there are gaps in your knowledge that are large enough for the Russian military to drive through it.
2. You pride yourself on not having been indoctrinated into disinformation through TV, but did you know that there is many times more disinformation by orders of magnitude to be found on the internet than through television? Well, there is, and you've swallowed much of it. My proof? Your posts.

And don't think I don't have your number. I've read all of this guff before that you've been posting recently, and guess where I read it? That's right, on racist and anti-Semitic websites!

So important, your pointing out here that TV disinformation is dwarfed by internet disinformation.

It's no great feat for someone to say they don't watch TV when they're consuming so many more hours a day of the internet than they probably ever spent on watching TV.

So many right-wing sources are pushing non-stop intentionally misleading, intentionally incomplete, and intentionally false information. Hate to sound nihilistic, but I don't see a way past it. The intentionally false, relentless drumbeat about Covid, about vaccines, about Russia, about Trump and his fellow GOP traitors, about the first failed coup, about Ukraine, about CRT and now this latest about "groomers," it's all designed to get and keep conservatives in power while pretending it's about traditional Christian values.

 

[ok doser]

So important, your pointing out here that TV disinformation is dwarfed by internet disinformation.

It's no great feat for someone to say they don't watch TV when they're consuming so many more hours a day of the internet than they probably ever spent on watching TV.

So many right-wing sources are pushing non-stop intentionally misleading, intentionally incomplete, and intentionally false information. Hate to sound nihilistic, but I don't see a way past it. The intentionally false, relentless drumbeat about Covid, about vaccines, about Russia, about Trump and his fellow GOP traitors, about the first failed coup, about Ukraine, about CRT and now this latest about "groomers," it's all designed to get and keep conservatives in power while pretending it's about traditional Christian values.

I can understand why you might view it that way. You're a dishonest piece of trash who hates America.

I prefer to view it as news. Newsworthy. The news that the left, especially the toxic form of the extreme left that now controls the reins of power, is intent on destroying America.

Which isn't really news

 

[Arthur Brain]

You make Russia sound like an abusive husband: "Ukraine! Look what you made me do!"

You just can't stop apologizing for Putin, can you? More posts rationalizing his behavior, no posts in support of Ukraine. I don't need to connect your dots, you're painting the whole picture.



No I don't. That's you confabulating again.


You don't have facts, you have conspiracy. The U.S. has been upfront about what those bio labs are. They're not the bioweapons factories your conspiracy sites make them out to be, and they weren't a threat to Russia, they were a pretense for Russia to invade, helped along mightily by the Putin-loving right-wing right here in River City.

I've given multiple links in this thread about how the right and Russia amplified the 'bioweapons' conspiracy into something it was not. Try educating yourself on how this disinformation was amplified, for a change.


Okay Putin apologizer. No one in this thread has painted the Ukrainian government of anything except protecting their sovereignty and the lives of their citizens.

Taking your apologia to its final conclusion, you might as well tell Ukraine they should have rolled out the welcome mat for Russia, maybe presented their women and children to the marauders, loaded their weapons for them, given them firing coordinates so their missiles could more accurately destroy their homes, hospitals, and train stations full of civilians. Because provocation!



Why don't you care that their country is being destroyed? Why don't you care their relatives are being raped, murdered, tortured, starved?

With friends like you, who needs enemies? Oh wait...

That was a take down and then some. Bravo...

 

[marke]

So important, your pointing out here that TV disinformation is dwarfed by internet disinformation.

It's no great feat for someone to say they don't watch TV when they're consuming so many more hours a day of the internet than they probably ever spent on watching TV.

So many right-wing sources are pushing non-stop intentionally misleading, intentionally incomplete, and intentionally false information. Hate to sound nihilistic, but I don't see a way past it. The intentionally false, relentless drumbeat about Covid, about vaccines, about Russia, about Trump and his fellow GOP traitors, about the first failed coup, about Ukraine, about CRT and now this latest about "groomers," it's all designed to get and keep conservatives in power while pretending it's about traditional Christian values.

The Bible tells us that the wicked will believe lies because they are deceived. We are seeing that clearly in modern America.

2 Thessalonians 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Here are some lies the wicked believe without proof and in spite of evidence to the contrary:

Hillary's Trump/Russian collusion conspiracy theory nonsense.
The democrats' insistence they did not commit voter fraud.
The crooked government officials' lies about covid and covid vaccines for selfish purposes.
The wicked lies about Trump for political and personal reasons.
Democrats lying about Jan 6 in order to cover up their voter fraud.
Hateful racist perversions of American history propagated by racists against God and whites.
Democrat lies about sex and gender designed to promote sexual perversion propagated by sexual perverts.

 

[User Name]

So many right-wing sources are pushing non-stop intentionally misleading, intentionally incomplete, and intentionally false information. Hate to sound nihilistic, but I don't see a way past it. The intentionally false, relentless drumbeat about Covid, about vaccines, about Russia, about Trump and his fellow GOP traitors, about the first failed coup, about Ukraine, about CRT and now this latest about "groomers," it's all designed to get and keep conservatives in power while pretending it's about traditional Christian values.

The truth will never convince everyone, but with the truth, enough people can prevent the liars from assuming full control.

 

[annabenedetti]

The truth will never convince everyone, but with the truth, enough people can prevent the liars from assuming full control.

Those who intend to do what they can to protect this country from the planned Republican authoritarian, anti-democratic takeover need to work in the real life domain too. The fight is on the internet of course, very much so, but we already know that, but it needs to be in venues that reach much farther than this slowly dying forum. Even recognizing that disinformation has to start somewhere, and by design it’s often in small little places, it’s the big places that amplify. Some people are better equipped to fight on the Internet and some people are better to fight in real life. At the school board level, municipal level, state level, federal level, and if it comes to it in our lifetime - at the street level.