Ukraine Crisis

[Gary K]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513922421434163200

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1513978968281649158

Ukrainian political culture is bottom-up and very decentralized. It starts from a community, which Ukrainians call “hromada”. Hromada – a key word for Ukrainian political philosophy since at least 19th century, f.e. philosophy of Mykhaylo Drahomanov 1/8

Drahomanov, trained as historian of Ancient Greece and Rome, made his philosophy of hromada based upon Greek (Aristotelian) philosophy of a city/polis. For him, politics starts from a local community, state emerges as integration of these communities, “hromada of hromadas”. 2/8

This is a sharp difference to Russian political culture which is centralized, and top-down. Unity of Russian politics is possible only around a tsar, a tyrant. In Ukraine, people are always opposed to a tsar. Zelensky is an anti-tsar: too close to the people, “one of us" 3/8

Why Ukrainian army is successful now? Because this decentralized spirit coincides with the Western techniques of military organization that Ukraine has adopted in its cooperation with NATO. Ukrainian mid-level commanders have much more freedom to act than Russian commanders. 4/8

Self-governance reform implemented since 2014 gave more powers to mayors. Mayors showed themselves positively now, organizing defense of cities. Interestingly this brings Ukraine closer to a medieval “princely” times of Kyivan Rus’, decentralized community of city-states 5/8

A leitmotiv of Ukrainian literature, historiography, philosophy is opposition to the centralized idea of state and universe. Skovoroda, Shevchenko, Kostomarov, Drahomanov, Ukrainian socialists of early 20th century. The key idea was a) anti-autocracy, b) self-organization 6/8

Also look at the spirit of freedom and emancipation of Ukrainian female writers, from Marko Vovchok to Lesia Ukrainka – female emancipation and anti-patriarchal trend was very early, in 19th century 7/8

to conclude: this freedom-loving, decentralized, anti-tyrannical spirit was in Ukraine for centuries. This is very different from Russia. Naturally, Ukrainians understand that defending this modus vivendi is an existential fight 8/8

That's just so much better than the fact that the CIA has worked with the Nazis in Ukraine for more than 70 years arming them training them and funding them. Who wants to understand that when it's just so depressing? Who wants to think the US government has been pro Nazi all these years? Who wants to believe that entire rocket program in the US was run by a Nazi? Who wants to believe that the US military used high ranking Nazi intelligence people as their single source of intelligence about Russia after WW2?
Who wants to believe that the Nazis who experimented on unwilling Jews actually were brought to the US to work in our medical research programs?

I mean, do you really think this is my belief by choice? That I hated my country so much that I looked for excuses to believe these things? Absolutely not. The facts of history lead me to these unescapeable conclusions. But do you have the same dedication to truth? Is that why you have chosen to buy into all the transgender nonsense even though you know by a lifetime of living that there are, and always has been, only two genders? Is that your dedication to truth?

 

[Idolater]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1514000767316901888

Well, the good news is, no previous proxy wars ever led to WWIII, so with history as our guide, this, hopefully, will be OK on that score as well.

 

[User Name]

That's just so much better than the fact that the CIA has worked with the Nazis in Ukraine for more than 70 years arming them training them and funding them.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512047822601957376

 

[annabenedetti]

Well, the good news is, no previous proxy wars ever led to WWIII, so with history as our guide, this, hopefully, will be OK on that score as well.

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.

I'm reminded of what Germany sees in this war:

Five weeks ago, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz delivered a fateful speech in reaction to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. His government’s decision to, among other things, inject more than $100 billion into the country’s military and deliver lethal support to Kyiv marked a sweeping policy shift away from decades of constitutional pacifism that had kept Germany often on the sidelines of major conflicts.​

​

It was, in the words of Scholz and his allies, a “Zeitenwende” — a turning point in history, a watershed moment made all the more pronounced by the German language’s knack for sprawling, declarative nouns.​

​

On a visit to Washington last week, German Defense Minister Christine Lambrecht said that Germany “cannot look away or stand apart,” and that this “Zeitenwende cannot be had for free.” After clinging to European visions of perpetual peace, war in the heart of the continent had shaken Germany’s cautious political establishment into action.​

​

For many on both sides of the Atlantic, the battles in Ukraine may even mark something more stark — a “Zeitenbruch,” as coined by former German foreign minister Joschka Fischer, which is a rupture in history, the closing of one age and the entry into another marked by even deeper uncertainty and great power rivalry.​

 

[User Name]

There you go.

No, here you go: When you've lost Sweden...and Finland too!

Sweden and Finland make moves to join Nato

Public support for western alliance doubled in both countries after Russia invaded Ukraine, find polls

www.theguardian.com

 

[ok doser]

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.

I'm reminded of what Germany sees in this war:

Five weeks ago, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz delivered a fateful speech in reaction to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. His government’s decision to, among other things, inject more than $100 billion into the country’s military and deliver lethal support to Kyiv marked a sweeping policy shift away from decades of constitutional pacifism that had kept Germany often on the sidelines of major conflicts.​

​

It was, in the words of Scholz and his allies, a “Zeitenwende” — a turning point in history, a watershed moment made all the more pronounced by the German language’s knack for sprawling, declarative nouns.​

​

On a visit to Washington last week, German Defense Minister Christine Lambrecht said that Germany “cannot look away or stand apart,” and that this “Zeitenwende cannot be had for free.” After clinging to European visions of perpetual peace, war in the heart of the continent had shaken Germany’s cautious political establishment into action.​

​

For many on both sides of the Atlantic, the battles in Ukraine may even mark something more stark — a “Zeitenbruch,” as coined by former German foreign minister Joschka Fischer, which is a rupture in history, the closing of one age and the entry into another marked by even deeper uncertainty and great power rivalry.​

 

[Gary K]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512047822601957376

Oh. my. One Russian guy with a tat just completely invalidates the CIA documents showing they have been working with, and by that I mean funding, arming and training, the Nazis in Ukraine since 1948. I'll bet if we look long enough and hard enough we will find one guy in the US military who is a Nazi too.

 

[User Name]

Oh. my. One Russian guy with a tat

Yeah, it's probably just a fluke...but if so, why is Russia home to an estimated 50% of the world's neo-Nazis?

Neo-Nazis in Russia - The Borgen Project

With the upcoming Winter Olympics, there is growing concern over the actions of Neo-Nazis in Russia.

borgenproject.org

Neonazism in Russia | Martin Varsavsky | English

english.martinvarsavsky.net

Putin’s fascists: the Russian state’s long history of cultivating homegrown neo-Nazis

While Russian President Vladimir Putin has made the absurd claim to be waging war to “de-nazify” Ukraine, his regime has a long record of collaboration with far-right extremists.

theconversation.com

 

[Gary K]

No, here you go: When you've lost Sweden...and Finland too!

Sweden and Finland make moves to join Nato

Public support for western alliance doubled in both countries after Russia invaded Ukraine, find polls

www.theguardian.com

Yeah, dance a jig on the eve of total war. Russia has already warned the Finns that if they do Russia will see it as a declaration of war. It will trigger a massive invasion and they are already moving troops to the Finnish border.

This is exactly what NATO and the US have been pushing for for decades. It's why they have broken every promise they've ever made to Russia.

 

[annabenedetti]

That's just so much better than the fact that the CIA

Regardless of what the U.S. has done around the globe to interfere in other countries, it doesn't justify Russia's invasion of Ukraine, or your apologia for that invasion.

Who wants to think the US government has been pro Nazi all these years?

Most people (particularly outside the U.S.) know that the U.S. isn't the shining city on the hill. The ones inside the U.S. who think it is, are probably Dominionists who'd empty the U.S. of everyone who didn't agree with them, in order to make it shinier.

A lot of people know our corporate ties to the Nazis, not enough people know how FDR turned away a ship of Jewish refugees which eventually had to return to Germany where many of them died in the Holocaust, or how we couldn't pass a bill to bring 20,000 Jewish children to safety in the U.S. As Laura Delano Houghteling, FDR’s cousin and wife of the U.S. immigration commissioner put it, "Twenty thousand charming children would all too soon grow into 20,000 ugly adults." Or that for optics, we only took in some token Jewish refugees as long as they agreed that we would send them back, and we housed them in an abandoned military base - behind barbed wire.

I mean, do you really think this is my belief by choice? That I hated my country so much that I looked for excuses to believe these things?

This is where you leave reality. You don't have to hate your country to believe it can, it has, and it will do bad things. There is no pure country. There never has been. There are better, there are worse, but across history there have always been people who've suffered at the hands of those in power. Power can put on a good face, wear some velvet gloves. But the same country who boasts of its patriot's pride, freedom and justice for all, its Mayberrys and its "greatest generation" has its own dirty civil rights past.


Again, none of this justifies your apologia for Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Is that why you have chosen to buy into all the transgender nonsense

 

[Gary K]

Yeah, it's probably just a fluke...but if so, why is Russia home to an estimated 50% of the world's neo-Nazis?

Neo-Nazis in Russia - The Borgen Project

With the upcoming Winter Olympics, there is growing concern over the actions of Neo-Nazis in Russia.

borgenproject.org

Neonazism in Russia | Martin Varsavsky | English

english.martinvarsavsky.net

Putin’s fascists: the Russian state’s long history of cultivating homegrown neo-Nazis

While Russian President Vladimir Putin has made the absurd claim to be waging war to “de-nazify” Ukraine, his regime has a long record of collaboration with far-right extremists.

theconversation.com

And, even if true, how does thar invalidate the CIA arming, training, and funding Nazis in Ukraine for the last 74 years?

 

[annabenedetti]

Oh. my. One Russian guy with a tat just completely invalidates the CIA documents showing they have been working with, and by that I mean funding, arming and training, the Nazis in Ukraine since 1948. I'll bet if we look long enough and hard enough we will find one guy in the US military who is a Nazi too.

Putin's private army, the Wagner Group.

 

[User Name]

And, even if true, how does thar invalidate the CIA arming, training, and funding Nazis in Ukraine for the last 74 years?

The CIA has armed, trained, and funded Nazis in Ukraine for the last 74 years? Even when Ukraine was in the Soviet Union? That seems hard to believe. And now with a Jewish president? These plot twists are wild!

 

[Gary K]

Regardless of what the U.S. has done around the globe to interfere in other countries, it doesn't justify Russia's invasion of Ukraine, or your apologia for that invasion.



Most people (particularly outside the U.S.) know that the U.S. isn't the shining city on the hill. The ones who do, are probably Dominionists who'd empty the U.S. of everyone who didn't agree with them, in order to make it shinier.

A lot of people know our corporate ties to the Nazis, not enough people know how FDR turned away a ship of Jewish refugees which eventually had to return to Germany where many of them died in the Holocaust, or how we couldn't pass a bill to bring 20,000 Jewish children to safety in the U.S. As Laura Delano Houghteling, FDR’s cousin and wife of the U.S. immigration commissioner put it, "Twenty thousand charming children would all too soon grow into 20,000 ugly adults." Or that for optics, we only took in some token Jewish refugees as long as they agreed that we would send them back, and we housed them in an abandoned military base - behind barbed wire.



This is where you leave reality. You don't have to hate your country to believe it can, it has, and it will do bad things. There is no pure country. There never has been. There are better, there are worse, but across history there have always been people who've suffered at the hands of those in power. Power can put on a good face, wear some velvet gloves. But the same country who boasts of its patriot's pride, freedom and justice for all, its Mayberrys and its "greatest generation" has its own dirty civil rights past.


Again, none of this justifies your apologia for Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

How is pointing out history apologia? Facts are facts. I've never said I support the invasion but have pointed out the Russian reasoning for it. They have seen the constant incursions and the constant lying as a threat and have stood by without making a military move for more than 70 years. Do you really think the US would have stood the same thing for 70 years without taking military action? Oh, no, I guess we didn't. We went directly to threatening nuclear war over missiles in Cuba in a matter of weeks. And you think Russia should swallow what the US wouldn't? That is extremely hypocritical.

 

[Gary K]

The CIA has armed, trained, and funded Nazis in Ukraine for the last 74 years? Even when Ukraine was in the Soviet Union? That seems hard to believe. And now with a Jewish president? These plot twists are wild!

Oh, yeah. So wild CIA documents say that is exactly what they have done. Only the US government has worked with Nazis since WW2 far more extensively than that and it's all been documented. We brought Nazi war criminals here, hid them, and gave them plum jobs inside the government. I've posted all this stuff but you're so bigoted you refuse to even read or watch the videos. This is fairly common knowledge and yet you think this is a wild conspiracy theory. Your ignorance is staggering.

 

[User Name]

We brought Nazi war criminals here, hid them, and gave them plum jobs inside the government.

Newsflash, Sparky: So did the Russians.

 

[annabenedetti]

How is pointing out history apologia?

It's not.

Rationalizing Putin's genocidal invasion of Ukraine is. And that's what you've been doing.

I've never said I support the invasion but have pointed out the Russian reasoning for it.

You've posted a video asking if the Bucha massacre was a "false flag."

You've talked about Russia's enemies locking them out of SWIFT and trying to destroy their currency.

Who are Russia's enemies, trying to get Russia - short of entering the war - to stop their genocidal invasion of Ukraine? And why are you framing us in such a way?​

You've said that Russia should be able to invade Ukraine based on your conspiracies about bio labs, and in fact said the U.S. would be justified in doing the same if it was Mexico.


That's only a few of your posts justifying Putin's genocidal invasion of Ukraine.

Are there any posts of yours in support of Ukraine's right and duty to repel the invaders of their country and protect their civilians from rape, torture and death? By all means, point me to those posts because I don't recall seeing them.

Until you do, you are and will continue to be a Putin apologist and an amplifier of Russian propaganda.

And you think Russia should swallow what the US wouldn't?

And until you can present those posts, I won't hold my breath.

 

[Gary K]

Newsflash, Sparky: So did the Russians.

Evidence, not just bald assertion as the Nazis and Russians were extremely bitter enemies.

 

[User Name]

Evidence, not just bald assertion as the Nazis and Russians were extremely bitter enemies.

It's a matter of historical record, nimnoo:

Operation Osoaviakhim - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Forgotten Rocketeers: German Scientists in the Soviet Union, 1945–1959 - War on the Rocks

On Aug. 21, 1957, in the deserts of central Kazakhstan, flames licked the concrete of the Baikonur Cosmodrome. After three disastrous failed tests, rocket

warontherocks.com

Russian Alsos - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[User Name]

Russia has already warned the Finns that if they do Russia will see it as a declaration of war. It will trigger a massive invasion and they are already moving troops to the Finnish border.

The fact that Russia has been an international pariah ever since Lenin became dictator in 1917 may be lost on you, but the rest of the world is well aware of it.