Town Quixote's

[Town Heretic]

The Friday Morning Gazette​

Continued with meshak, first on popularity and its polar...

...It is easy to be a popular.

It's easier to be unpopular.

...It is not comfortable to take abuse such as gang attacking.

I suspect what happens is someone, say you, says something that a lot of people disagree with and they're told by someone, say you, that they're not supporting Jesus or that they're not His because they differ and they're offended and respond to it. It isn't a gang.

It's just math.

On distinguishing what worldliness is and isn't...

...In able to work for Jesus, you have to give up all your worldly mentality and desires, friend.

Depends on what you mean by that. I suspect you don't wander the streets waiting to be fed or housed. David, Job, Solomon weren't given to lives of poverty, they were given the opposite by God. God didn't need the rich young ruler's wealth. He needed his devotion.

On what is sufficient...

...As long as you say your works cannot save you, you are dishonoring Jesus.

The thief on the cross next to Christ didn't do anything but hang there and declare. But his heart was devoted in that declaration. That seemed enough for Christ.

If it isn't enough for you then you might need to adjust your standard.

Jesus says to be faithful and obey Him until the end.

He also said what about the Sabbath and that wheat I mentioned?

He spent a good deal of his time trying to teach us what the law was for and what it wasn't. A lot of people still don't seem interested in that. I have no idea why.

It is all about obeying Him which is a lot of work to do for Him.

No, it's all about loving him and your neighbor and doing what people in love should do, happily. And that's not work at all. It's submission. But we don't want it to be easy, because then we can't take pride in what we do...which I suspect is the point.

And easy dismissals...

...mainstreamers don't care about corrupt fruit they are producing.

That's like saying that most people who believe in Christ are actively indifferent to their own faith. Were that the case they'd be agnostics and atheists and sleeping in instead of attending church and doing their best to walk with God.

It does no one any good, not you or me or the other fellow, to declare ourselves the only concerned and genuine, even if we believe ourselves to be among the few who actually get it. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you're wrong. Why is it necessary for either of us to believe the other insincere, disinterested or corrupt?

On the problem of generalization and unfamiliarity with the thing we criticize...

That's why Jesus says we know false teachings by their fruit. When are you going to learn that?

That isn't a point most Christians disagree on. That's a "maintstream" teaching, found in most major denominations of Christendom.

That's the main reason why I always talk about mainstreamers sinful practice, fruit.

And that's why I think this generalization from your anecdotal experience is a huge mistake. You should know the doctrinal positions of the various Christian sects you're trying to lump together or you're bearing false witness against them. It's bad fruit, meshak. Unintentional, but wrong.

Took a minute to say hello to STP...

Designing a bobble head doll of myself.

Won't it topple over?

And come up with a few potential headlines from last weekend's playoff games...

Ind @ NE: Second Verse, Same as the First (or three out of four ain't bad)

NO @ Sea: Saints Sent Marching Home

SD @ Den: Say It Ain't Bolo!

Before answering a mischaracterization with an unmet challenge...

because you are focusing away from what I am talking about.

Given I'm almost always answering you that's not possible...Demonstrate a single point you've made that I haven't taken you up on. If it happened it would have been accidental.

I'd be happy to list the points of counter you've left on the vine.

And summed my objection on method...

It is not my job to be receptive to Jesus' word.

I think you mean it isn't your job to make others receptive to it.

My job is to spread it.

You said that already. And my answer is that spreading, teaching, making require more than just recitation. They require that you follow the example of Jesus, who argued and answered in truth.

They will be disciples if they like Jesus' love messages. that's it for now, my friend.

Then why did he answer his critics? I think you should reflect on the record of your example and change that particular. If you're standing in truth you have no reason to fear opposition. If you're mistaken but desire it, you have no reason to fear correction.

Tomorrow? :think: A haircut maybe.

 

[bybee]

The Friday Morning Gazette​

Continued with meshak, first on popularity and its polar...



On distinguishing what worldliness is and isn't...



On what is sufficient...



And easy dismissals...



On the problem of generalization and unfamiliarity with the thing we criticize...



Took a minute to say hello to STP...



And come up with a few potential headlines from last weekend's playoff games...



Before answering a mischaracterization with an unmet challenge...



And summed my objection on method...


Tomorrow? :think: A haircut maybe.

Yesterday a haircut. Today dyed my hair. Tomorrow avoid contact with mirrors!

 

[IMJerusha]

Tomorrow? :think: A haircut maybe.

Perhaps more than one? I mean, it usually looks better that way. :idunno:

 

[Town Heretic]

Today's Bulletin Board Classic...

 

[bybee]

Today's Bulletin Board Classic...

Dad blast it! They seem to migrate toward TOL!

 

[Town Heretic]

Tuesday Afternoon Gazette​

Had a word in the Out of Town thread with charity and chrys...

I was out of town, an in town while you where out of town!

I live in the country and I'm still never out of town. lain:

Have you considered a new thread entitled "It Must Be Town Somewhere"?

Chatted up FS in the Breakfast thread...

I don't think I like you anymore. lain:

But really, was it even possible for you to like me more?

Then, in the Sandy Hook thread...

Maybe he was taught that and when he realized it was no more real than Santa Claus he snapped.

How would he "realize" that, exactly, when some of the finest minds on either side of the debate can't manage to make their case beyond any reasonable shadow of a doubt?

Maybe if the poor devil had experienced God he'd have had a context that made that choice unthinkable.

And in the Atheists thread...

You're apparently not a moral consequentialists. ...as long as it nets a positive for God...............

I'm just a Christian. I recall and paraphrased Christ's position on the subject. A pastor can't serve God by lying about or for Him.

This is not to say that every lie is a moral ill (see: the ever popular, "Is that a Jew I hear in your house, Klaus?").

Indeed, it is all of those things, characteristic as they are of christianity for many.

Some politicians are corrupt. It doesn't follow the problem is politics. And I reject the ambiguous but odious "many". By what count? In relation to and arrived at how, again?

No, assuming that is as silly as failing to capitalize a proper noun. It speaks to the root of an unreasonable bias, however otherwise wrapped.

And continued with Stuu...

]...currently 51% of the US population denying evolution, so that's approximately 160 million Americans who are deluded.

Well, no. Assuming your data is an accurate reflection all you can say with certainty is that a majority of Americans are unconvinced on the point.

...I'd agree with the criticism that it would be difficult to determine true motive with accuracy.

But then:

I'm sure the motives aren't straightforward.

lain:

As for lying for the truth, that is a matter of personal opinion.

So you believe a truth that can't be empirically established is fine so long as it's yours. Else, it's a contemptible delusion...good to know.

I suspect lying for god is more common than we might dare think.

Then you don't understand the premise and moral constraint in the founding principles of the faith, or what we might dare think is so ambiguous that it would vary from person to person without really saying anything even as it appears to taint. And there's still no reason to think it.

Before noting a problem with the "logic" of aCW's latest attempt to taint a holiday thread...

Why would a supposed man of God associate with someone like this?

That's the question you'd have to answer to sustain the irrational notion that a man who died in the struggle for civil rights for his people would knowingly associate with someone who felt right at home among the Klan and who thought of abortion as a means of racial genocide.

See, a reasonable person could only come to one conclusion. That you don't is the best argument against ever taking you seriously.

While over in the A&E thread things were getting confusing...by which I mean I was confused...

No. I watched the episodes as reruns.

:rotfl: That was funny...as if there were original episodes. :

Wait, sorry...I thought you were talking about Duck Dynasty.

Momma mea culpa.

LOL! "Homophobe". Only an idiot uses that fake made-up word.

:think: ...what words aren't made up by someone?

Tomorrow? I sort a sock drawer. lain:

 

[FellowServant]

:roses:

 

[Town Heretic]

The Friday Night Light Gazette​

So, after my misstep in the Duck Dynasty thread (apparently not an Animal Farm reference)...

That's what happens when you join the conversation after 1200+ posts.

I watched the last season of Lost. Sometimes it's for the best. lain:

There was a surprising twist in the Most Expensive Hobby thread...

And why do you stick with it?

I'll Start: Horses. Without a doubt. Hay is very expensive, around $12.00 per bale and I use a little over a bale a day. Tack, vets, trailers, trucks to pull trailers, more tack, grain, farriers and so it goes. So what makes such an expensive hobby worth it? "I love you Daddy!"

Wait, you've got a talking horse?! :shocked:

Wait...it calls you daddy??! lain:


My most expensive hobby will likely now be therapy.

While in HOF How You Doin'...

My father accidentally set fire to some of his acreage yesterday. Lost the canoe, ironically only a foot from four acres of pond, but kept the house. Went by today to watch what's left of a dead oak smoldering. It looked like it was spewing fireflies last night.

So...interesting day. Jack asked, "What's wrong with the grass?"

And I said, "Your grandfather, Jack. Your grandfather."

Then aCW blew up his latest attempt to rewrite history with comic books...

Why waste valuable internet ink when something is so obvious TH.

You're lucky no one else feels that way or you'd be blogging. lain:

Leading to a commiseration with anna...

...He's called me quite a few things - including, but not limited to guilt ridden liberal.

It's like debating Disraeli...I mean today. :rip:

Ask him if he's figured out why it's goofy to suggest a black civil rights leader would knowingly associate with genocidal racist. It's more fun than playing darts with Ray Charles...and yes, today, again, of course. lain:

And in the breakfast thread...

...I'm finally back to myself ( I don't know if that's good for everyone else around me :chuckle: )I'm happy I can breathe through my nose again.

Good. 'Cause it's rude to breath through someone else's. lain:

Before finding time to help out in the PC thread...

You can get a Commodore 64 on ebay.

You can listen to The Commodores on eight-track. lain:

And what's wrong with short pants?

There was some frivolity in the Meshak what are you trying to prove thread but it's closed now and I'm tired and don't care for linkless posts on the whole...oh, anna started a new thread entitled:

35 Pictures That Prove The World Isn’t Such A Bad Place

The link is built in. You should definitely check it out.

Goodnight and goodluck and what not. Tomorrow? We both know I won't be doing this for a couple or so. So stop it already.

 

[Town Heretic]

The Monday Morning Gazette​

In the boycott this thread (no, the other one)...

I'd shop at "Muslims R Us," if they had some good vittles, "duds,"..... "Boycotting" a store "cuz of"(fill in the blank), including their "religious affiliation," their "moral" views...... is counter productive, in the least, and just "noise," at best...

Well, avoid Hindus' All You Can Eat Buffet...that's all I'm going to say on the subject. lain:

Kept at the search for anna's new nickname (joining Catholist and Spawny)...

You forgot that odd s-for-z substitution; you really need to work on that too.

You tell'em benedonnit. lain: It was that or annabeneannajets.

Dropped the linguistic gloves...

Indubitably. As an Englishman, well versed in post Norman parlance it irks me also as to why Americans have an aversion to the letter "u". I've arrived at the conclusion that it's no doubt due to downright laziness and disrespect for modern Anglo Saxon...:madmad:

Until the English stop omitting articles like second language students from Bangkok they shouldn't criticize their American cousins for breathing life and reason into our uncommon tongue.

That led to...

Haven't you got a part time career as a talking thesaurus?

lain:

Like that's a bad* thing.

* dissatisfactory, abhorrent, slipshod, unacceptable, regrettable, etc. oly:

Then...

Not a very good one then. No wonder you were part time....You left out:

Shoddy, makeshift, poor, substandard, wanting, crap....etc etc etc...

I didn't want the proximity to your posts to make you self-conscious. lain: I'd settle for proof you're at least conscious (there being an argument in play that the greater part of your posts represent inadvertent spasms), but just in case.

Offered a helping hand to FS...

We canceled road testing for today. Been yelled at by 4 different people when I called them to let them and try to reschedule them. They basicallysaid the ssame thing, "I can't believe you aren't testing today. Do you guys ever work or just sit behind a desk and collect a paycheck?" lain:

Just ask them if they want that as their answer on the road safety part of the exam.

While in TOL's sorriest thread...

... If you are clothed in the righteousness of Christ then you would have the love of God in in your heart and be like Christ, but you are not.

Well, not everyone can radiate the love you're imparting here. At least not without a fight breaking out. lain:

You are condemning and judgmental...

You're unintentionally ironic.

Just in time to see Knight's even sadder admission elsewhere...

Rocketman and I met for a cigar and at the end of the night we got in a fist fight in the parking lot. :box:

Well, I won't say "I told you so!"

...mostly because I didn't, but why quibble (and don't both of you wish you'd had that philosophy in the parking lot). lain:

Concluding with...

Knight beat me up...

That was very naughty of him!
Extra cookies for you and none for him!

Okay...but Knight's just going to beat him up again and take them from him.

Tommorrow? Snow. :shocked: Maybe. :denver:

 

[bybee]

The Monday Morning Gazette​

In the boycott this thread (no, the other one)...



Kept at the search for anna's new nickname (joining Catholist and Spawny)...



Dropped the linguistic gloves...



That led to...



Then...



Offered a helping hand to FS...



While in TOL's sorriest thread...



Just in time to see Knight's even sadder admission elsewhere...



Concluding with...



Tommorrow? Snow. :shocked: Maybe. :denver:

More like bitter cold taking the frozen Tundra to new depths, somewhat analogous to some of the posters staining the pages here....

 

[Totton Linnet]

It's always a good read to catch up on Quixote......

 

[Town Heretic]

The Post Super Bowl Gazette​

So I said to bybee...

...I plan to meet a number of you one day before I'm so old I forget why.

And FS chimed in, I think a little bitterly...

Then you don't have much time left.

Time left for what? lain:

Talked about faith with xAv...

Dear sir, myself being "so made that I cannot believe" isn't a statement of certainty,

Well it stinks on ice as a statement of ambiguity.

...I cannot believe/I have not chosen to not believe,

Those are not of the same value and stuff. One may certainly do the latter. The first is something else and that is what I've been speaking to.

And...

...If you want to make me laugh, tell God your plans.

I bet that kills in certain circles...at least if you know your Dante.

Mucked about in the quotation thread...

Not as much as you love exclamation marks. lain:

So what's a clamation mark look like then? :think:

It was that or, "I liked Richard Marx once, but that was during my alcoholic period".

I probably should have gone with that one. lain:

Said hello to the new guy...

I'm a Southern Baptist I guess you would say.

Not without sufficient provocation.

... I know Jesus died for us and he is the only way to peace and joy. Other than that, I've still got a lot to learn.

And so says everyone who knows a little or a lot...it's the in between you have to keep your eyes on.

Took exception to a one size fit...

Genocide's indefensible. I don't really care how you guys attempt to justify or defend it.

Judging God is indefensible (and irrational) and I don't care how anyone who attempts it cares to wrap it.

And...

"Don't be irrational--don't bother questioning him" is what you've said, TH.

No, I never did. What I have said is that the context for any narrative can determine the conclusion/judgment we make about it. If you believe in the Christian precept then you understand God to be not a thing judged by the good, but the good itself, the rule by which we judge any other good and by which we understand evil.

Beyond that is a long argument about how and why of God's actions in relation to man.

On the want of pacifism and a pro military stance...

...Bully for you and your imagined heroics.

I didn't describe or attempt to describe a heroic act...

This does not make genocide defensible--not then, not now, not ever.

Bully for you and your imagined nobility.

But who made you God and why should anyone accept your standard, whatever it is?

While in the "noon somewhere" thread, FS's remarks about her daughter bringing lunch took an ugly turn when...

it doesn't really matter what she brought you

What if she'd brought her a dead body? :shocked:

Tomorrow? Super Bowl blues and AB dodges a sandwich. :smack:

 

[Town Heretic]

Your Morning Quote:

 

[bybee]

Your Morning Quote:

That would be before coffee on my way to the bathroom finding the door locked....

 

[Town Heretic]

The Friday Afternoon Gazette (early bird edition)​

Noted the problem of winter life in the South...

Cold this morning. Saw a little ice on the road. That can only mean one thing here...it's time for the National Guard to be called out.

I'm kidding. They're probably stuck in their barracks.

Kept trying to talk a guy down from a peculiar reaction to winning...

...Denver was thoroughly beaten in all phases of the game and then humiliated by a statistically inferior team...

They were the number one defense in the game. The stats that led and lead me to believe them beatable by Denver is about match ups. The problem for Denver is that, beyond the bad breaks the offensive line just didn't get the job done that it needed to. That negated the WR match-ups and running game.

In that, which I did not expect, nor did you, I see the hand of God... And you but see a statistical anomaly...

If you believe God cares who wins a football game you might need to stop, take a breath and remember what Tebow isn't doing this year.

But perhaps he [Elway] SHOULD be thinking of blowing up the position of QB a lot LESS in the future...

Which is why Tim went to the pro bowl this year? lain: Stop it. Seriously, just stop....

Tried to interject a couple of points in the young marriage thread...

To whom it may concern:

If you're advocating full right to contract, vote and consume alcohol at the same age you're allowing for marriage I'd say that you're being consistent. If you aren't then something is wrong with the foundation of your position and I'm curious about it.

I'd prefer twenty one on all of them, but understand the reality of the situation and could live with eighteen, reluctantly.

And...

Why is it assumed that a 25 year old man marrying a 15 year old girl is motivated by control and ego?

Because shared interests and cultural markers are looking a bit thin?

While in one of the liberal threads Jabin was making his part plain...

...In the civilized works, the UK has the 3rd highest crime rate. The US ranks 15. So, wrong morons in the UK, you're more likely to be a victim of crime. That's all the more pathetic given that the UK is a police state (cameras everywhere) while the US has a far higher rate of A. Americanus nigrum (an undomesticated species that commits crimes at a rate ten times higher than whites, and poisons those around them).

Just wanted to preserve this one for posteriority. lain:

Talked with Pure about faith...

And apologetics is the practice of maintaining this religious presumption that by proselytizing people, you are saving their souls.

People have been won for Christ by witness, argument and profession. Christ used argument to that very purpose. It's not the only way, but it's important. It's also important how we live and are seen among those in need of salvation.

...spreading the good new is not the same as spreading the presumption of one's religious righteousness.

Spreading the good news means telling people who Christ was and is and what he did for them, how they can be reconciled to him.

... Christ isn't a religion.

Right. He's God. Christianity is a religion.

And salvation isn't based on religious adherence, or righteousness

Except that it is, in the sense that without religious teaching we wouldn't understand who Christ was and is and what is sufficient as an invitation to grace. I'd agree that works won't get you anywhere, that we cannot self perfect, while adding that a man in love should be easy to spot by how he acts, even if he acts imperfectly.

I know a lot of people confuse these things, but I don't think that spreading that confusion helps.

I'm not for spreading confusion, by any means. But I am very much for spreading the good news that Christ died and has risen that men might be reconciled to him, indwelt by him and transformed through him.

Wrapped up with zip...

...My approach is merely a softer reflection of your own.

"But, but I'm just doing what you're doing and I'm being nicer!"

Really? That's what you're going with? lain:

...Then why isn't an argument?

What I noted was that an appeal to authority or tradition is in itself neither argument nor rational without a reasoned support, actual argument sustaining it, that it reduces to a statement of belief, which only has a subjective, not objective authority.

Now let's go back to your charge on the topic of fideism:

In fact, most Christians don't accept your fideistic starting point--the idea that no religious claims are rationally demonstrable.

I've never held that position or made that statement. I've corrected you on this charge before. The question of God cannot be empirically settled, but that isn't the same animal at all. In fact, I've stated that faith is reasonable, that God can be inferred by utilizing reason, from the premise of being to the particulars of expression among men.

As to answering why I'm here, thread wise...

I was told there'd be snacks.

I'm a patient man. lain: But that was several years ago, so they'd better be really good snacks.

So zoo asked...

Wait...

lain:

Who was it that told you about the snacks?

I think it was fool. I think he might have been screwing around with me, but I'm going to give it another year...maybe two. No need to rush to judgment on a thing like that.

I hear you brought soda. lain:

And bybee stopped by...

Well I've always got cookies in reserve but someone locked the pantry door and I can't find the key!

Story of my life. lain:

Well, you'll find it eventually...I'll wait.

Tommorrow? I'm going to Disneyland...okay no, but I am sleeping in, which for anyone with a two year old... :shocked:

 

[zippy2006]

The thread was closed, so I will answer this post here. Do what you like with it.

First I'll collect all of your assertions into one section:

I didn't.

"But, but I'm just doing what you're doing and I'm being nicer!"

Really? That's what you're going with?

And you were wrong, again, on the point. Supra.

Rather, you're as wrong as you were in thinking my illustration a comment on fideism when it simply wasn't.

That would be a circular and flawed argument

Why? I'm not interested in your assertions.

It only begins to function as an argument within the context of a body that assumes his premise, which remains undemonstrated.

That's what a premise is: something assumed, something undemonstrated. All arguments have premises. Now do you have an actual reason why it wasn't an argument? (like I said, all you are doing is saying "I don't agree, therefore it isn't an argument," or "I don't think the premise is true, therefore it isn't an argument") You don't even seem capable of rejecting his argument without committing non-sequitur fallacies.

Premise: a : a proposition antecedently supposed or proved as a basis of argument or inference; specifically : either of the first two propositions of a syllogism from which the conclusion is drawn b : something assumed or taken for granted -Merriam Webster

Then why isn't an argument?

What I noted was that an appeal to authority or tradition is in itself neither argument nor rational without a reasoned support, actual argument sustaining it, that it reduces to a statement of belief, which only has a subjective, not objective authority.

You continually claimed that Traditio didn't have an argument. Can you tell me why or not?

Again, just because something is subjective or based on tradition does not mean it is not rational.

It doesn't mean it is or isn't. So the value remains to be and must be demonstrated, reasoned through.

Premises have to be justified to people who do not believe them, not to people who believe them. Trad was talking to someone who believed the premise, which is why he didn't argue for it. That's how argument works. It's simply false that all premises--based in tradition or otherwise--need to be demonstrated or reasoned through, either in a specific argument or in a systematic presentation. It is impossible in each case.

Responding to that request by saying, in essence, that you have to be a member of the club that accepts the premise doesn't do that.

Sure it does. That's how argument works. Traditio did not and would not have presented that argument to you. The fact that you disagree with a premise has absolutely nothing to do with his conversation with Anna.

And just because something uses a premise that is based on tradition does not mean that it is not an argument.

It depends.

No, it doesn't. At least not if you know what an argument is. :idunno:

In his case, as he failed to present anything justifying the reasonableness of the tradition or authority it did.

Supra.

In fact, most Christians don't accept your fideistic starting point--the idea that no religious claims are rationally demonstrable.

I've never held that position or made that statement. I've corrected you on this charge before. The question of God cannot be empirically settled, but that isn't the same animal at all. In fact, I've stated that faith is reasonable, that God can be inferred by utilizing reason, from the premise of being to the particulars of expression among men.

So you hold that some religious claims are rationally demonstrable, such as God's existence? If so, you must reject the idea that atheism is rational.

 

[zippy2006]

The Friday Evening Gazette​

TH pronounces his characteristic ad hominem argument to shoe away his poor logic:

It goes to the points Trad and Zippy have made.

Trad has Aspergers and zip might as well when he gets his dander up, so you have to take them with a compassionate pound of salt.

It's phenomenal what this man is capable of in public, but I guess if you're reading this thread you're already aware. :chuckle:

 

[bybee]

The Friday Evening Gazette​

TH pronounces his characteristic ad hominem argument to shoe away his poor logic:



It's phenomenal what this man is capable of in public, but I guess if you're reading this thread you're already aware. :chuckle:

You are not competent to judge TH Zippy!

 

[zippy2006]

You are not competent to judge TH Zippy!

Bybee, did you read what he wrote to Doormat? The condescension is palpable.

 

[bybee]

I am competent to rebuke him, and perhaps you ought to give it a thought. Or maybe you first need to stop and read carefully what he wrote to Doormat? The condescension is palpable.

Doormat has a way, on occasion, of setting one's teeth on edge.
He also, on occasion, has much that is good to contribute.
You are young.