toldailytopic: The Catholic Church: what did they get right, and what did they get wr

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coulter4president

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the Church got nothing wrong... (though its members do all the time)

the Church got nothing wrong... (though its members do all the time)

miriam said:
Right: The importance of education and social justice.

Wrong: The hierarchical structure, priestly celibacy.

miriam
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they didn't get either one wrong. you just dont u/stand cuz you're not Catholic

only Catholics (esp cradle catholics) u/stand being Catholic.. generally speaking.. You can't just "get" something in your head. To really get it... well, you get my drift..

all systems have hierarchy. if you have a problem on your job, you go to the supervisor... If you dont get anywhere with him, you go above his head and so on and so forth..

At school... same thing: teacher, principal... etc..

So why is hierarch in the catholic church seen as some kind of evil??

celibacy

i could proabbly write a book on that one.. I've been celibate for many years now.. struggled with self-gratification ... overcame that with JEsus (His Church) Now i've also been chaste for many years.. It is NOT easy always saying NO to my body that wants gratification all the time.. but if a person ate everything/anything he wanted and never did the exercise to wear all that off... death... Same thing with sexual gratificatin outside the way God intended Self gratification is a mortal sin becasue it is using the sexual faculty for something God never intended. he meant for our sexuality to be "used" in MARRIAGE only! not fornication, masturbation, homosexuality, adultery...

As you can see, i have "repressed" my urges... and as you can also see..
I'm Still Alive!!!!!!

​

[will wonders ever cease?

i mean, geeze, ppl nowadays act like you will die if you don't get satisfied at least once a month... and like you are a freak if you abstain as i do.. Well, you can call me a freak all you want. I'm trying to get to Heaven...

I was never a ble to be chaste ... and definitely NOT for this long without Christ's Church.. I credit the CHURCH and only the Church for my being able to overcome this sin & others. .. which is kind of importnat since sin drags a person away from God into Hell
COLOR][]
 
Krsto

Krsto

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chrysostom said:
high schools, elementary schools, orphanages, charities, abortion, divorce, homosexuality, etc

and teaching the gospel to over one billion world wide
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How can they claim to have taught the Gospel to over one billion world-wide when the average Joe Catholic doesn't even know what the Gospel is? Correction - the average educated Catholic doesn't know what it is. I interviewed hundreds of students at the University of Washington and hardly any of the Catholics could answer the question, "If you were to die today and you were standing at the Pearly Gates, why should Peter let you in?"
 
Cruciform

Cruciform

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Krsto said:
...the average Joe Catholic doesn't even know what the Gospel is? Correction - the average educated Catholic doesn't know what it is. I interviewed hundreds of students at the University of Washington and hardly any of the Catholics could answer the question, "If you were to die today and you were standing at the Pearly Gates, why should Peter let you in?"
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  • Wow, tens-of-Catholics out of more than a billion worldwide. The fact is that you're simply engaging here in the Fallacy of Small Sampling. Your arbitrary conclusions on this faulty basis mean nothing.

  • Moreover, if you had phrased your question in a specifically Catholic rather than decidedly Protestant form, the answers you received from Catholics would have been much different. Here, you commit the glaring non sequitur of assuming that because Catholics don't always use the same soteriological concepts and vocabulary as Protestants, the Catholics must therefore not understand "the Gospel" (as articulated by you, at least). In short, the mere fact that Catholics did not understand you does not mean that they did not understand the Gospel.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
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Granite

Granite

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Yes, you just keep banging away on a single drum constructed out of anti-Catholic distortions, non sequiturs, stereotypes, and canards...
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Oh spare me. Why don't you ever condemn those within your church who rape children (and will likely do so today) or speak with compassion and mercy about the victims? Your priorities are sick and warped: you're more anxious to defend the Church in the face of clear and hideous crimes than lift a finger to criticize it.

...and expect everyone to simply fall in line with your grossly imbalanced conspiracy-theory-esque declarations.
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Well, let's see: when you actively thwart victims of sexual torture to report their crimes to civil authorities, hide the perpetrators and the reality of their crimes from law enforcement and the perpetrators's own flocks, and when the powers that be of the Church are aware of this scandal and actively seek to perpetuate it, what would one call such a global arrangement? Gosh: strikes me as a conspiracy, come to think of it. An endeavor to commit crimes and allow the perpetrators of said crimes to remain free sounds an awful lot like a "conspiracy," your denials notwithstanding.

No one is denying that the clergy abuse scandal has occurred.
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Yet to get you to admit it happened--and is happening--involves pulling teeth. I've yet to see you openly and actively condemn the sadists who committed this abuse or the venal, vile, reprehensible men who allowed these perverts to torture children with impunity. In fact, let's see you do that right now. I doubt that you can or will.

You support an organization that commits, aids, and abets child rape on a global scale. If anyone else dared to support such an agenda, they'd be anathema. Yet you people hide behind religion to assuage your conscience. That's beyond contempt.
 
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rexlunae

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Granite said:
Yet to get you to admit it happened--and is happening--involves pulling teeth. I've yet to see you openly and actively condemn the sadists who committed this abuse or the venal, vile, reprehensible men who allowed these perverts to torture children with impunity. In fact, let's see you do that right now. I doubt that you can or will.
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Also notice that even now, the wording is very careful not to accept any responsibility. "the clergy abuse scandal has occurred" really only acknowledges that a scandal happened...not that the Church had any important part in it. It's a set up to play the victim again once the events are out of the headlines and people forget what has been revealed.

The Pope's "apologies" have been mostly the same way, as far as I've seen. No acceptance of responsibility, very little acknowledgement that there's anything wrong besides bad publicity.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129961353
 
Granite

Granite

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rexlunae said:
Also notice that even now, the wording is very careful not to accept any responsibility. "the clergy abuse scandal has occurred" really only acknowledges that a scandal happened...not that the Church had any important part in it. It's a set up to play the victim again once the events are out of the headlines and people forget what has been revealed.

The Pope's "apologies" have been mostly the same way, as far as I've seen. No acceptance of responsibility, very little acknowledgement that there's anything wrong besides bad publicity.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129961353
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Exactly. It's not like this happened in a vacuum or was an isolated problem. The hierarchy from the pope on down knew what was happening. They knew the identities of the perpetrators and must have in many instances known who the victims were. They knew enough to shift abusers to other ministries and knew enough to shield the abusers from civil repercussions. The culture of the church contributed to the issue by accusing victims of lying or trouble making. The powers that be knew what was going on. And they let it happen, and made sure victimizers wouldn't face the consequences, for decades.
 
Cruciform

Cruciform

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Granite said:
Oh spare me. Why don't you ever condemn those within your church who rape children (and will likely do so today) or speak with compassion and mercy about the victims?
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I certainly do. However, here I was specifically responding to you, not to the Church.

Your priorities are sick and warped: you're more anxious to defend the Church in the face of clear and hideous crimes than lift a finger to criticize it.
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Simply a False Dilemma Fallacy on your part, which has already been answered above.

Well, let's see: when you actively thwart victims of sexual torture to report their crimes to civil authorities, hide the perpetrators and the reality of their crimes from law enforcement and the perpetrators's own flocks, and when the powers that be of the Church are aware of this scandal and actively seek to perpetuate it, what would one call such a global arrangement? Gosh: strikes me as a conspiracy, come to think of it. An endeavor to commit crimes and allow the perpetrators of said crimes to remain free sounds an awful lot like a "conspiracy," your denials notwithstanding.
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Your completely unsubstantiated assertion is noted.

Yet to get you to admit it happened--and is happening--involves pulling teeth.
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Nonsense. This has already been answered in the first response above.

I've yet to see you openly and actively condemn the sadists who committed this abuse or the venal, vile, reprehensible men who allowed these perverts to torture children with impunity. In fact, let's see you do that right now. I doubt that you can or will.
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Of course I condemn the tiny minority of Catholic clergy who perpetrated and enabled such sinful and inexcusable acts. I do not, however, share in your non sequitur of extending the personal sins of a few to the Church as a whole.

Now, let's hear you praise and extol the virtues of the 98% of Catholic clergy who had nothing whatsoever to do with such criminal acts. I doubt that you can or will.

You support an organization that commits, aids, and abets child rape on a global scale.
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Merely a false statement on your part. I support an organization, a tiny number of whose clergy has committed sexual crimes. I condemn these individuals, not the Church herself.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
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Y

yeshuaslavejeff

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Granite said:
Exactly. It's not like this happened in a vacuum or was an isolated problem. The hierarchy from the pope on down knew what was happening. They knew the identities of the perpetrators and must have in many instances known who the victims were. They knew enough to shift abusers to other ministries and knew enough to shield the abusers from civil repercussions. The culture of the church contributed to the issue by accusing victims of lying or trouble making. The powers that be knew what was going on. And they let it happen, and made sure victimizers wouldn't face the consequences, for decades.
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how many decades is it since 312a.d. ?
...
notice that the little warped slave of antichrist pagan posts so often, without ever learning anything.... but it is very effective in preventing any one else from getting to the truth also (remember that is what Jesus said would happen and warned His disciples against sternly).
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Jesus warned specifically not to call any man 'father' religiously.
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Jesus warned not to commit idolatry specifically and generally, but the pagan hierarchy insists on forcing it's slaves to commit idolatry and worse EVERY DAY.
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AND NOTICE - the pagan hierarchy tells its slaves the opposite of what Jesus said, THEN TELLS THEM
......
get this
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NOT TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES IN ANY WAY - just obey the pagan hierarchy or get kicked OUT!!! (like martin luther, charles chiniquoy, joan of arc and countless others - kicked out and/or burned at the stake or otherwise murdered)...
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the pagan hierarchy is the vilest of all evils on earth.
 
Cruciform

Cruciform

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yeshuaslavejeff said:
...AND NOTICE - the pagan hierarchy tells its slaves the opposite of what Jesus said, THEN TELLS THEM...NOT TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES IN ANY WAY...
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Of course, this is a flatout falsehood on your part. Catholics "think for themselves" every bit as much as you do, friend.

Sadly, your posts merely serve to show your vast ignorance of actual Catholic doctrine and practice.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 
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