toldailytopic: Santorum shocks everyone and vaults to the front of the race. Thoughts

aCultureWarrior

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Wow, more inconsistency from our resident facsist.

Sent from my LS670 using Tapatalk

I feelz the love Tapatalk LS670.

Now how about you or one of your mindless Paulbots discuss what I posted: That those who framed our Constitution and amended it (regarding the 14th Amemdment), made abortion a FELONY in every state, when "it was discovered that human life did not begin when she [the pregnant woman] "felt life," but rather at fertilization."
 

WizardofOz

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Now how about you or one of your mindless Paulbots discuss what I posted: That those who framed our Constitution and amended it (regarding the 14th Amemdment), made abortion a FELONY in every state, when "it was discovered that human life did not begin when she [the pregnant woman] "felt life," but rather at fertilization."

:idea:
Who enforced these laws?
 

aCultureWarrior

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Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Now how about you or one of your mindless Paulbots discuss what I posted: That those who framed our Constitution and amended it (regarding the 14th Amemdment), made abortion a FELONY in every state, when "it was discovered that human life did not begin when she [the pregnant woman] "felt life," but rather at fertilization."

:idea:
Who enforced these laws?

Ummmm...don't help me, I can answer this one.

The same people who God ordained to do good, the civil magistrate!

Uh, Ralphie, is murdering unborn children in the name of "states rights" doing good in the eyes of God?
 

WizardofOz

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Ummmm...don't help me, I can answer this one.

The same people who God ordained to do good, the civil magistrate!

More specifically, each state was charged with enforcing these laws.....:think:

Uh, Ralphie, is murdering unborn children in the name of "states rights" doing good in the eyes of God?

Luckily no one is talking about murdering unborn in the name of "states rights" so unless you can accurately identify what is being argued and what is not, go play with your strawman somewhere else.
 

aCultureWarrior

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Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Ummmm...don't help me, I can answer this one.

The same people who God ordained to do good, the civil magistrate!

More specifically, each state was charged with enforcing these laws.....

You can't very well enforce murder laws at the state level, if you've already gone ahead and said that murder (in this case, the murder of the unborn) isn't illegal (duh).

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Uh, Ralphie, is murdering unborn children in the name of "states rights" doing good in the eyes of God?

Luckily no one is talking about murdering unborn in the name of "states rights" so unless you can accurately identify what is being argued and what is not, go play with your strawman somewhere else.

But Ralphie, it's already been established that presidential candidate Ron Paul has:

"At the same time, Ron Paul believes that the ninth and tenth amendments to the U.S. Constitution do not grant the federal government any authority to legalize or ban abortion. Instead, it is up to the individual states to prohibit abortion."
http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/abortion/

(The antonym of prohibit is "permit" by the way).
 

WizardofOz

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Rep. Ron Paul to Personhood USA Re: Pledge

Let me begin by noting again that not only do I share Personhood USA’s goal of ending abortion by defining life as beginning at conception, but also that I am the only candidate who has affirmatively acted on this goal in his career. I am the sponsor of federal legislation to define Life as beginning at conception, and will promote and push this goal and legislation as President.

I believe the FEDERAL government has this power, indeed, this obligation.

As you probably know, this comes directly from Supreme Court’s misguided Roe decision, in which the court stated that it did not have the authority to define when life began, but that if it were ever decided, then that life would have to be protected.

It is the only bright spot in an otherwise poor moral and constitutional decision.

What you are seeing in my response is simply a clarification about the details of enforcing such a decision about where life begins.

Defining life as beginning at conception would define the unborn child as a life. Thereafter the taking of that life would be murder. Murder in our criminal code and constitutional history is punished by the laws of the individual states. The federal government does not dictate the terms of the state murder laws. Some have longer sentences. Some allow for parole, some do not. Some have the death penalty, some do not.

This is how our republican form of government was intended to function, and I believe we need to stay on that path.

Federal law needs to define Life. I have sponsored and will continue to promote legislation to federally define Life as beginning at conception, establishing the personhood of every unborn child, thus finally fulfilling the role of the government in protecting our life and liberty.



source

Once again: "Defining life as beginning at conception would define the unborn child as a life. Thereafter the taking of that life would be murder. Murder in our criminal code and constitutional history is punished by the laws of the individual states. The federal government does not dictate the terms of the state murder laws. Some have longer sentences. Some allow for parole, some do not. Some have the death penalty, some do not." :think: :idea:
 

aCultureWarrior

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Rep. Ron Paul to Personhood USA Re: Pledge

source

Once again: "Defining life as beginning at conception would define the unborn child as a life. Thereafter the taking of that life would be murder. Murder in our criminal code and constitutional history is punished by the laws of the individual states. The federal government does not dictate the terms of the state murder laws. Some have longer sentences. Some allow for parole, some do not. Some have the death penalty, some do not." :think: :idea:




Here's the entire link, I specifically liked this part:

"If Rep. Paul believes that "life begins at conception" and therefore agrees with the core reasoning of the Personhood movement that all human beings should be considered legal persons with rights, then why would the 14th amendment's clear requirement that states grant equal protection to all persons not apply to making sure that state criminal codes protect the lives of born and unborn persons equally? Rep. Ron Paul would surely agree that if a state decided to decriminalize the killing of all human beings over 70, that state would be violating 14th amendment's equal protection clause, would he not?"
http://www.personhoodusa.com/personhood-usa-rep-ron-paul-re-pledge

So murder would be illegal per federal law, but enforcement of those laws would be up to the respective states.

Let me think how the left wing legislators of WA State would punish abortion doctors:

"Guilty as charged: $25 fine!"

 

drbrumley

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Here's the entire link, I specifically liked this part:

"If Rep. Paul believes that "life begins at conception" and therefore agrees with the core reasoning of the Personhood movement that all human beings should be considered legal persons with rights, then why would the 14th amendment's clear requirement that states grant equal protection to all persons not apply to making sure that state criminal codes protect the lives of born and unborn persons equally? Rep. Ron Paul would surely agree that if a state decided to decriminalize the killing of all human beings over 70, that state would be violating 14th amendment's equal protection clause, would he not?"
http://www.personhoodusa.com/personhood-usa-rep-ron-paul-re-pledge

So murder would be illegal per federal law, but enforcement of those laws would be up to the respective states.

Let me think how the left wing legislators of WA State would punish abortion doctors:

"Guilty as charged: $25 fine!"

Because if you actually read the 14th amendment:


Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Section 3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.



You will see EXACTLY what it says. Read Section 1 very carefully. All persons what? As much as you and I agree 100% with each other that a fetus is a person, a fetus is not born. I'm sorry but that is a fact. So Ron Paul is EXACTLY right. The 14th amendment was not made to cancel out the 10th amendment. That is a straight truth. Life begins at conception is accurate, but to give 14th amendment protections to a fetus is dumb. This would create chaos within the court systems. We better make sure the I's are dotted and the T's crossed. I say nullify the 14th to include provisions for the unborn, and you and I will stand side by side. Until then. You are letting emotion cloud your judgement on this issue.
 

WizardofOz

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Here's the entire link, I specifically liked this part:

"If Rep. Paul believes that "life begins at conception" and therefore agrees with the core reasoning of the Personhood movement that all human beings should be considered legal persons with rights, then why would the 14th amendment's clear requirement that states grant equal protection to all persons not apply to making sure that state criminal codes protect the lives of born and unborn persons equally? Rep. Ron Paul would surely agree that if a state decided to decriminalize the killing of all human beings over 70, that state would be violating 14th amendment's equal protection clause, would he not?"
http://www.personhoodusa.com/personhood-usa-rep-ron-paul-re-pledge

So murder would be illegal per federal law, but enforcement of those laws would be up to the respective states.

Let me think how the left wing legislators of WA State would punish abortion doctors:

"Guilty as charged: $25 fine!"

A $25 fine for a murder charge? Perhaps you need to read again:

"Defining life as beginning at conception would define the unborn child as a life. Thereafter the taking of that life would be murder. Murder in our criminal code and constitutional history is punished by the laws of the individual states."
 

aCultureWarrior

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Forgive me for being suspicious of a Libertarian running on the pro-life Republican Party ticket for President, but I am.

Ron Paul's supposed "pro life stance" so close to election time reminds me of Mitt Romney seeing the pro life, pro traditional marriage light just before election ballots are handed out.

I'm troubled by these two quotes from Congressman Paul in 2011:

Abortion laws should be a state-level choice. (Apr 2011)

Day-after pill allows individual moral choice. (Apr 2011)
http://usahitman.com/ron-pauls-position/

In "Liberty Defined, Ron Paul advocates the morning-after pill:

So if we are ever to have fewer abortions, society must change again. The law will not accomplish that. However, that does not mean that the states shouldn't be allowed to write laws dealing with abortion. Very early pregnancies and victims of rape can be treated with the day after pill, which is nothing more than using birth control pills in a special manner. These very early pregnancies could never be policed, regardless. Such circumstances would be dealt with by each individual making his or her own moral choice."
http://www.dailypaul.com/180123/can-no-longer-support-ron-paul-morning-after-pill

The Day-after pill allows individual moral choice"?

"Biologically, physically, genetically, embryologically, pregnancy begins at conception," counters Calgary pharmacist Maria Bizecki, who belongs to Concerned Pharmacists for Conscience, an Alberta group that is lobbying for pharmacists' right to refuse to dispense abortifacients. "The public is being lied to about the way this works. Preven terminates a pregnancy in its very early stages," she emphasizes.
http://www.prolife.com/morningafterpill.html

But but but wait, I thought Congressman Paul stated that "Defining life as beginning at conception would define the unborn child as a life".

Never trust a Libertarian, especially one that is running for office and will do anything to get elected.
 

aCultureWarrior

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A $25 fine for a murder charge? Perhaps you need to read again:

"Defining life as beginning at conception would define the unborn child as a life. Thereafter the taking of that life would be murder. Murder in our criminal code and constitutional history is punished by the laws of the individual states."

Again, forgive me for being suspicious of a Libertarian who has no problem with the individual states allowing buggerites to marry, or to legalize crack cocaine and hookers, but has a supposed tough stance on abortion.

Make a Christian conservative feel comfortable Ralphie and have him endorse "Federal Sentencing Guidelines" when it comes to abortionists.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Sentencing_Guidelines

They can do time in a State Prison, or be hung by the neck there if that makes you feel better.
 

aCultureWarrior

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Just a quick question. Are you opposed to birth control pills?

Once again the Libetarian attempts to put the spotlight on the Christian conservative. Sorry, but I'm not running for POTUS.

This guy is:

"I consider it a state-level responsibility to restrain violence against any human being. I disagree with the nationalization of the issue and reject the Roe v. Wade decision that legalized abortion in all 50 states. Legislation that I have proposed would limit fe4deral court jurisdiction of abortion, and allow state prohibition of abortion on demand as well as in all trimesters. It will not stop all abortions. Only a truly moral society can do that.

The pro-life opponents to my approach are less respectful of the rule of law and the Constitution. Instead of admitting that my position allows the states to minimize or ban abortions, they claim that my position supports the legalization of abortion by the states. This is twisted logic."
Ron Paul, April 19 2011.
http://www.ontheissues.org/TX/Ron_Paul_Abortion.htm

There's that "allow" word again. I prefer "require".
 
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