The Watch Towers Founder Called Jesus "The Almighty"

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Maybe he was among the 144,000.

Sadly, psychopannychia and annihilation (no Hell) is even assumed by some non-JWs:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...to-Get-Saved&p=4925042&viewfull=1#post4925042

:AMR:

AMR

Lol about the 144k! That JW gig always cracks me up! I won't lie to you about "annihilation"... I see deep potential for it. I however maintain that our souls live until intentionally destroyed by God, alone. I also recognize God's authority and right to Rev. 20:10 ... without question. The only problem is that Rev. 22:5 makes the "day and night" part difficult... because it says there won't be a night.

I do believe in absent from the Body, present with the Lord... and I believe that the unbelieving dead are conscious in "Sheol".

As for the dispensation and order of things... well you know where my heart is and how Jacob's people appear to me. All that aside... I wish Jehovah's witnesses did believe in ECT... because they might be less inclined to lie and mock the Divinity of Christ!

All Respect and gratitude for everything you contribute,

EE

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

So you are an authority on how the WT Society came to be? Russell never received "revelations" from Jehovah....he read the Bible and discerned what it meant. He was able to understand many important things, but not all at once. It would take years to understand everything, and we are STILL coming to understandings about many things. Has YOUR religion been able to answer ALL THINGS?

Satan would never dare to pose as "Jehovah"; but he would other gods and everybody else. Charles Russell did not receive any information from a "revelation" from Jehovah like the one Smith supposedly had of "God" and "Jesus." You are cramming your foot further into your misleading mouth.

Wow, you really believe that Satan wouldn't pose as Jehovah?

2 Thes. 2:4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.​

Let me guess... the Watchtower forbids reading 1 or 2 Thessalonians.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

What will the dead saints be doing before they are raised from the dead at their resurrection--

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Joh 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Joh 11:12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
Joh 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Joh 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

You poor people are so far from the truth.

LA

1 Thes. 3:13 so that he may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all his saints​

Oh and... Jude 1:14

And ... Matthew 18:10

Oops... almost forgot... Revelation 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. 10 They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothersc should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

LA... you are like a busted clock. I get excited every time you're right for that one minute out of 24 hours... then I realize... your more busted than the stars of "America's Dumbest Criminals".

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

[MENTION=17493]KingdomRose[/MENTION]

Are people actually retarded enough to get scammed by this and believe it?

"Supposedly God began collecting the 144,000 at Pentecost in A.D. 33 but stopped collecting them in 1935, when the full number was reached. Some of the 144,000 are still living, and they are all Jehovah's Witnesses. As of 1986 there were only about 9,000 of the 144,000 left alive. Since the Jehovah's Witnesses are a larger group, possessing several million members, how are the rest of the Witnesses regarded? As non-members of the body of Christ."

Solid Link that defines what the 144,000 are to J-Dubs

 

[Lazy afternoon]

What will the dead saints be doing before they are raised from the dead at their resurrection--

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Joh 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Joh 11:12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
Joh 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Joh 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

You poor people are so far from the truth.

LA

Meh, it doesn't mean what JW's taught you it means. :nono: You can buy a line all day, it certainly does NOT make anyone far from the truth. Rather, posturing in the flesh does. Being blind to spiritual truth does. Reading commentaries instead of doing Bible reading does....

The scripture is straightforward but crooked religionists can not accept it as plainly written.

LA

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

The scripture is straightforward but crooked religionists can not accept it as plainly written.

LA

1 Thes. 3:13 so that he may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all his saints​

Oh and... Jude 1:14

And ... Matthew 18:10

Oops... almost forgot... Revelation 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. 10 They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothersc should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

LA... you are like a busted clock. I get excited every time you're right for that one minute out of 24 hours... then I realize... your more busted than the stars of "America's Dumbest Criminals".

And... I abhor "religion" (past the prescription of James)... so... um... "religionists" seem to be a ref. To the WORKS crowd.

What does Eph. 2:8f and Romans 4:4f mean? How about John 6:61?

You say?

 

[Lon]

The scripture is straightforward but crooked religionists can not accept it as plainly written.

LA

:think: 2 Corinthians 5:8

 

[musterion]

You lie, child of the nefarious. Why don't you go to the source of our beliefs instead of relying on the wolves that are out to destroy the unwary?

The quotes are from Watchtower sources.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

If you are a simpleton, which many JW's are. You are remiss for listening to them. 2 Corinthians 5:8

I read the Bible where it says plainly--

2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

Paul is talking about being clothed upon with His new body else he would be naked.

2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. (in the new body at the resurrection.)

Php 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

LA

 

[Lon]

I read the Bible where it says plainly--

We'll look... (I edited btw. I think it simpleton, but the accusation wasn't necessary nor the need to posture)

2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

Paul is talking about being clothed upon with His new body else he would be naked.

2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. (in the new body at the resurrection.)

Php 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

LA

1 Corinthians 15:36-51 1 Corinthians 15:51

 

[keypurr]

Where did that come from? I have read many many versions of the Bible and I have never seen that rendering. The other scriptures in the Bible CONTRADICT that rendering, so I would not lend any credence to it.

"And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." (Phil.2:11, KJV)

"And every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to God the Father's glory." (Darby)

"And every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." (New American Bible)


Those and every version that I pick up has that same reading. What version is YOUR Bible? What is AENT? If it is the Lamsa translation, you have not presented it accurately. My copy says this:

"And every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is the Lord, to the glory of God his Father." Nothing about Jesus being YHWH!

(BTW, it has been scripturally established that we ARE souls, not that we HAVE souls. Our bodies are part of our "souls." Our souls can DIE, and therefore are not immortal (Ezekiel 18:4). Our "spirits" are merely the power from God that keeps us alive. When the spirit is gone, we are dead and have no further consciousness (Ecclesiastes 9:5). That is what the Bible clearly teaches. Too many people have subverted those truths by twisting the scriptures.)

That is from the Aramaic English New Testamant?

And I see it as correct.

Look see at
Www.aent.org

Best forty bucks you will ever spend. The note are priceless.




Sent from my iPad using TOL

 

[musterion]

I've told the story before. Back in college I knew a guy named Christian who was raised Watchtower. I've kept tabs on him from time to time and find he is still a hard atheist.

Despite that, we got along fairly well back then. He once told me that the beginning of his crumbling faith was the false prophecy of the end of the world in 1975. He's my age so he would have been about 7 years old at that point. His devout JW family, along with many others, put their house and belongings up for sale and waited for the imminent end. When it didn't happen, they never recovered financially and much more than that was lost.

Of course this man was never saved because he never heard the saving Gospel until he was well into hardened unbelief and skeptical of everything remotely Judeo-Christian. But having seen first hand how false prophets victimize people who trust their lives to them, there was no way he would really listen to me when I shared Christ with him.

The Watchtower immunized him, from childhood onward, against Christ.

There will be much blood on the hands of the Watchtower false prophets, and their defenders, come the Day.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

I am soon to be gone for a bit.

I am soon to be gone for a bit.

YHWH is the Father who gave the power to his Son,

The Father is greater than all.

John 12:27 “My soul is troubled. What should I say? ‘Father, keep me from having to go through with this’? No. This is the very reason I have come to this point in my life. 28 Father, bring glory to your name!”

Then a voice came from heaven. It said, “I have brought glory to my name. I will bring glory to it again.” 29 The crowd there heard the voice. Some said it was thunder. Others said an angel had spoken to Jesus.

30 Jesus said, “This voice was for your benefit, not mine. 31 Now it is time for the world to be judged. Now the prince of this world will be thrown out. 32 And I am going to be lifted up from the earth. When I am, I will bring all people to myself.” 33 He said this to show them how he was going to die.​

God is too magnificent to stand before us and demand praise. He asked that we recognize Him by our own choice. The book of John is full of Jesus making statements about the Father and then turning around and connecting those statements to Him.

We are bound to speak of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit... but Jesus is The FATHER... Manifested among us. The Son is the very manifestation and Revelation of the Father. The Father Reveals the Son. The Holy Spirit is the very Soul that binds the Father and Son, or Body to Spirit.

All Love and RESPECT... I apologize for speaking so blunt... yet... It is right that you know I see that you have faith you do not speak of. Your theology is different then the belief of your soul. For this reason, I know the Son is molding your understanding.

I only ask you this...

IF HE reveals that He is the literal presence of the Father to you... Would you Love Him or Hate Him?

 

[Lon]

"Yet for us there is one God, the Father" (Corinthians 8:6).

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" (Ephesians 1:3).

1Corinthians 8:5 For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”—
1Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

See? There is a difference between Christians and everybody else! For the Christian, there are no 'gods' or other 'lords' but one.

For the Arian? :think: :doh:

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

1Corinthians 8:5 For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”—
1Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

See? There is a difference between Christians and everybody else! For the Christian, there are no 'gods' or other 'lords' but one.

For the Arian? :think: :doh:

And... there it is.

That's the ace card if you think about it...

Arians and Adoptionist Arians alike... with the exception of Islam... Say there is more than one "God".

 

[Rosenritter]

Maybe he was among the 144,000.

Sadly, psychopannychia and annihilation (no Hell) is even assumed by some non-JWs:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...to-Get-Saved&p=4925042&viewfull=1#post4925042

:AMR:

AMR

Including Martin Luther and William Tyndale. I read an English translation of John Calvin's Psychopannychia once, and it was somewhat less than I expected. What type of guy writes a furious essay belittling people when he admits that he doesn't know what they are really saying, has never listened to them, and never has read any of their writings? That's rhetorical. One of the correct answers to that is John Calvin.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Welcome back Meshak