The Trinity

[marhig]

I know you have said that but he does not come through the Holy Spirit he is a Spirit and he himself lives in us. He doesn't come through another Spirit.


They are NOT three united Spirits! The Bible says there is one Spirit.


Jesus lives in ALL the saved. YOU DON'T.

I didn't say that I live in anyone, but that once we are born of God we are one Spirit. God the father in Christ,and Christ in the Father them in us and us in them.

John 17

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

 

[God's Truth]

I didn't say that I live in anyone,

You used scripture about Jesus being one with the Father and how the saved are one with Him!
You say Jesus doesn't himself live in the saved, only by the Holy Spirit.

What don't you get about the scripture plainly saying that Jesus himself will live in the saved?

but once we are born of God we are one Spirit. God in Christ Christ in God them in us and us in them.

John 17

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Again, Jesus himself lives in the saved. So how do you get that this scripture says he does not, or that he does it by another Spirit? You are seeing things that are not there.

 

[marhig]

You used scripture about Jesus being one with the Father and how the saved are one with Him!
You say Jesus doesn't himself live in the saved, only by the Holy Spirit.

What don't you get about the scripture plainly saying that Jesus himself will live in the saved?



Again, Jesus himself lives in the saved. So how do you get that this scripture says he does not, or that he does it by another Spirit? You are seeing things that are not there.

Because Christ is a part of the Holy Spirit. All Spirits in heaven are Holy, and Christ enters into our heart through the Spirit and he is then made manifest within the hearts of those born of God, and they are changed to be more like him.

And Paul in 1 Corinthians 6 not only says that we are one, but that we are one Spirit. So there are many in the one Spirit. What do you think Paul means?

And you say that Jesus is the father, why would Jesus then pray to himself?

 

[God's Truth]

Because Christ is a part of the Holy Spirit. All Spirits in heaven are Holy, and Christ enters into our heart through the Spirit

Christ himself lives in our heart. That is what scripture says.

and he is then made manifest within the hearts of those born of God, and they are changed to be more like him.

And Paul in 1 Corinthians 6 not only says that we are one, but that we are one Spirit. So there are many in the one Spirit. What do you think Paul means?

Why do you keep saying that but then you don't like it when I say you don't live in the saved?

And you say that Jesus is the father, why would Jesus then pray to himself?

Because he came as a Man. Who else should man pray to?

 

[marhig]

Christ himself lives in our heart. That is what scripture says.


Why do you keep saying that but then you don't like it when I say you don't live in the saved?




Because he came as a Man. Who else should man pray to?

Gt we only have to read john 17 to see that Jesus isn't the father. If you think that he's the father, then he prays to himself, and that's not right. and the father is also the father of Jesus. As it clearly shows us in the bible. I'm not going to carry on and on like this again, that's what I see as the truth.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Gt we only have to read john 17 to see that Jesus isn't the father. If you think that he's the father, then he prays to himself, and that's not right. and the father is also the father of Jesus. As it clearly shows us in the bible. I'm not going to carry on and on like this again, that's what I see as the truth.

Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

 

[Rosenritter]

I don't pray to myself.

Yes, you do. You ask yourself, "Can I have this piece of chocolate cake?" And you tell yourself, "Yes, I can" or "No, I'm saving that for later." You have thoughts inside your own head all the time.

 

[God's Truth]

Gt we only have to read john 17 to see that Jesus isn't the father. If you think that he's the father, then he prays to himself, and that's not right. and the father is also the father of Jesus. As it clearly shows us in the bible. I'm not going to carry on and on like this again, that's what I see as the truth.

You just don't look at the truth that says there is only one Spirit. You ignore it.

 

[God's Truth]

Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Jesus was still a Man in the flesh when he said that. Being in the flesh is to be made lower.

 

[Bright Raven]

There is only one God and He is the Father.

Jesus is God the Father come as a Man.

1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father,

Ephesians 4:6 and one God and Father,

Nope.

John 14:23 King James Version (KJV)

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Two Persons

 

[marhig]

Yes, you do. You ask yourself, "Can I have this piece of chocolate cake?" And you tell yourself, "Yes, I can" or "No, I'm saving that for later." You have thoughts inside your own head all the time.

That's not praying to myself. We pray to thank God and ask for help, or pray to God to help others, I don't pray to myself for that, and I don't have to pray to myself to forgive others!

 

[God's Truth]

Nope.

John 14:23 King James Version (KJV)

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Two Persons

One Spirit, One God, One Body.

 

[Bright Raven]

One Spirit, One God, One Body.

One God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit

 

[God's Truth]

One God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit

That sounds like you made four.

The Bible says that God the Father is Spirit, Jesus is the Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is the Spirit.

One as a Father and Son and Comforter and seal.

 

[Bright Raven]

Because you do not understand the nature of God. He is three in one.

 

[lifeisgood]

Of course I take what Jesus says literally. He is speaking Spiritual words about being the door. Do you think you are going to go through that door with your physical body or with your spirit?

Ah, what happened, gt? You really needed that long to use your read for comprehension?
Do you ONLY use your reading for comprehension when it is convenient for you?

How come you understand that here Jesus is not talking LITERALLY being a physical literal door?

How come, you, gt, do not understand Paul is doing the same thing as Jesus? Paul is NOT LITERALLY saying that Jesus is LITERALLY the Spirit, the same way Jesus is NOT LITERALLY saying He is a LITERAL door.

If you insist that Paul said that Jesus is LITERALLY the Spirit, then you have to insist that Jesus said He LITERALLY is a literal door as you demand vehemently that the Bible must be read LITERALLY.

So, in conclusion, you, gt, use whatever method you, gt, deem is what has to be for everybody else and you insist that same method is NOT for you.

And please do not come back with your usual 'how dare you not do what I, gt, demand of everybody else but when it comes to me, I, gt, DO NOT insist that for myself, only for others.'

 

[Rosenritter]

Nope.

John 14:23 King James Version (KJV)

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Two Persons

Bright Raven, if Jesus meant to teach a Trinity, why would he speak as above (John 14:23) with reference to two persons, instead of three? It would seem as if Jesus was neglecting one in favor of the other... and not just here, but many other places as well.

 

[Rosenritter]

That's not praying to myself. We pray to thank God and ask for help, or pray to God to help others, I don't pray to myself for that, and I don't have to pray to myself to forgive others!

You're also in a much simpler situation than existing in more than one realm of existence at a time.

 

[glorydaz]

Bright Raven, if Jesus meant to teach a Trinity, why would he speak as above (John 14:23) with reference to two persons, instead of three? It would seem as if Jesus was neglecting one in favor of the other... and not just here, but many other places as well.

Jesus was not limited by verse markings. He does go on to explain how He and the Father will dwell in them via the Holy Spirit - (He shall teach you all things....) The work of the Holy Spirit would begin in earnest (pardon the pun) when He came to dwell in the believer.

John 14:25-26 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

John 16:13-15 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.​

 

[Rosenritter]

Jesus was not limited by verse markings. He does go on to explain how He and the Father will dwell in them via the Holy Spirit - (He shall teach you all things....) The work of the Holy Spirit would begin in earnest (pardon the pun) when He came to dwell in the believer.

John 14:25-26 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

John 16:13-15 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.​

I acknowledge that Jesus is not limited by verse markings. But there are many places where Jesus speaks of himself and the Father, himself and the Father, himself and the Father. This pattern is carried on in the New Testament as well. I could give many examples, but for space I'll provide just a couple for demonstration:

Matthew 5:16 KJV
(16) Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.


1 Corinthians 1:1-3 KJV
(1) Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
(2) Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
(3) Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

If Paul, an apostle of Christ, who personally received understanding from visions of the Lord, speaks this way... I'm just saying that Paul (and other writers) don't sound very Trinitarian. If he is addressing a Trinity, why doesn't he address three members of a Trinity?

You know that I am not being hostile. But if we acknowledge Paul as an apostle of the Lord, directly receiving revelation from visions and Jesus Christ in the spirit, if "Trinity" were something important, why wouldn't Paul say something about it? Any why wouldn't he sound more Trinitarian?