The Trinity

[lifeisgood]

Unbelievable.

Yes, unbelievable.

 

[RealityJerk]

The donkey received the Spirit certainly is not Yah

You obviously don't get it. Elisha, received the spirit of Elijah. That's what the scriptures say. Following your line of reasoning, Elijah is God/Spirit Of God, because Elisha received Elijah's spirit. How can a man, literally receive the spirit of another man? Are you saying that Elisha was literally possessed, infused, with Elijah? If having the spirit of Messiah, of Christ, automatically makes that spirit, God's spirit. Then Elisha, having the spirit of Elijah, makes Elijah's spirit, God's spirit. Unless of course you believe Elisha was literally infused, by the spirit of Elijah.

Elisha had the spirit of God, and the term "Elijah's spirit" is being used here, interchangeably, with God's own spirit. Following your flawed logic, since Elijah's spirit is being identified with God's spirit, then that makes Elijah God. If Jesus' spirit is being described interchangeably, with God's spirit, then according to you, Jesus spirit, is God's spirit. If this holds true for Jesus, it holds true for Elijah as well. The spirit of both these men, is synonymous, with God's spirit. Get it? Think.


Did John The Baptist, literally function, operate, did he come with, the spirit and power of Elijah? The gospel of Luke, tells us that John came, operated in, the spirit and power of Elijah. Did he really, literally do that? He really came in the spirit and power of another man's spirit? Really? No. He actually came in the spirit and power of God. Elisha the prophet, had God's spirit, not Elijah's. It is a figure of speech. Do you know what an "idiom" is ? Idiomatic language. It's an idiom. Symbolic language. It's not to be taken literally. Like "it's raining cats and dogs". You don't literally believe it's raining cats and dogs right? You don't literally believe, that Elisha received the spirit of Elijah, right? You don't literally believe that John The Baptist, came in the spirit and power of Elijah, right? But you believe, literally, that if we have the spirit of Christ, that automatically implies the spirit of Christ, is God's spirit. That's flawed reasoning.

You don't understand biblical principles, hence you come to these skewed conclusions. You don't interpret the bible correctly.

 

[lifeisgood]

Ephesians 6:17 “Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.”

How do you get that disproves Jesus being the Spirit?

You provide holy writ that disproves your assertion that the verse you provided says that Jesus is the Spirit.

Helmet of salvation has to do with the renewing of the mind, which is done by understanding that everything we receive from the Lord, comes to us through Jesus Christ and His perfect, atoning, vicarious, sacrificial, completed/finished work on the Cross of Calvary.

The sword mentioned in the verse you provided is the μάχαιραν (maxairon) which is the short sword carried by the Roman foot soldier. The Roman soldier had to learn to use the weapon with precision. For us Christians Paul is saying that this sword (the Bible or word of God) is to be used not only defensively but also offensively against the enemy. The parallel of this sword and the Bible as a spiritual weapon is amazing for we are taught that we are to learn to use the Bible with the same precision as the Roman soldier had to learn to use his sword. It could also be translated as the “sword BY the Spirit” or even “the spiritual sword” which specifically describes the relationship of the Holy Spirit and the written word of God.

The word of God is the Bible. “For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” (Hebrews 4:12).

When a person hears the Gospel (preaching of the word of God), the Holy Spirit convict their hearts and they are given the choice to accept or reject the salvation that God is offering them.

 

[Rosenritter]

Spoiler

It’s fully supported by scripture. The angels are “Elohim” / gods:

Psa 8:3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;
Psa 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
Psa 8:5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels (elohim/gods), and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
Psa 8:6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:

In the Hebrew, the word translated “angels” in Psalms 8:5, is “elohim”or gods. The word Elohim in Hebrew, can mean several things, however, it generally denotes authority and power. YHWH, is the GOD/POWER, of all gods and powers. He is the ultimate, absolute source, of everything and everyone. Nonetheless, the immortal angels, are powerful spirits. We were created, lower than the angels / Elohim. Even your apostle Paul, interprets Psalms 8:5, as referring to angels/Elohim:

Heb_2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
Heb_2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

This is the Strongs Hebrew definition of Elohim/elohim:
'ĕlôhı̂ym
el-o-heem'
Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Total KJV occurrences: 2601

This is the BDB (Brown Driver Briggs) Hebrew definition of Elohim/elohim:
'ĕlôhı̂ym
BDB Definition:
1) (plural)
1a) rulers, judges
1b) divine ones
1c) angels
1d) gods
2) (plural intensive - singular meaning)
2a) god, goddess
2b) godlike one
2c) works or special possessions of God
2d) the (true) God
2e) God
Part of Speech: noun masculine plural
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: plural of H433

In the book of Job we read:

Job_1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job_2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
Job_38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

The term there, “sons of God”, is “Bnai’Elohim”. It doesn’t imply that they are “children” of God, but rather, of the category of elohim/gods. Let’s look at the Strongs Hebrew definition of the word “Bnai/Sons”:

bane
From H1129; a son (as a builder of the family name), in the widest sense (of literal and figurative relationship, including grandson, subject, nation, quality or condition, etc., (like H1, H251, etc.):
Notice, that the word “benai/bane”, denotes, a nation, a quality or condition. The Brown Driver Briggs definition states:
bên
BDB Definition:
1) son, grandson, child, member of a group
1a) son, male child
1b) grandson
1c) children (plural - male and female)
1d) youth, young men (plural)
1e) young (of animals)
1f) sons (as characterisation, i.e. sons of injustice [for unrighteous men] or sons of God [for angels])
1g) people (of a nation) (plural)
1h) of lifeless things, i.e. sparks, stars, arrows (figuratively)
1i) a member of a guild, order, class
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H1129

Do you see it? Ben/Benai/Bane can mean “characterization”, those who are members of a particular order or class. Those that are within a certain category or condition. So for example, we have the sons of the prophets (those who are members of the order/class/category/condition of the prophets. ):

1Ki_20:35 And a certain man of the sons of the prophets said unto his neighbour in the word of the LORD, Smite me, I pray thee. And the man refused to smite him.
2Ki_2:3 And the sons of the prophets that were at Bethel came forth to Elisha, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the LORD will take away thy master from thy head to day? And he said, Yea, I know it; hold ye your peace.
2Ki_2:5 And the sons of the prophets that were at Jericho came to Elisha, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the LORD will take away thy master from thy head to day? And he answered, Yea, I know it; hold ye your peace.
2Ki_2:7 And fifty men of the sons of the prophets went, and stood to view afar off: and they two stood by Jordan.
2Ki_2:15 And when the sons of the prophets which were to view at Jericho saw him, they said, The spirit of Elijah doth rest on Elisha. And they came to meet him, and bowed themselves to the ground before him.
2Ki_4:1 Now there cried a certain woman of the wives of the sons of the prophets unto Elisha, saying, Thy servant my husband is dead; and thou knowest that thy servant did fear the LORD: and the creditor is come to take unto him my two sons to be bondmen.
2Ki_4:38 And Elisha came again to Gilgal: and there was a dearth in the land; and the sons of the prophets were sitting before him: and he said unto his servant, Set on the great pot, and seethe pottage for the sons of the prophets.
2Ki_5:22 And he said, All is well. My master hath sent me, saying, Behold, even now there be come to me from mount Ephraim two young men of the sons of the prophets: give them, I pray thee, a talent of silver, and two changes of garments.

Ben/Benai/Bane of the Prophets – Sons of the Prophets. The holy angels, who serve YHWH, are of the angelic order of elohim/gods. Unlike Satan, who appeared before YHWH in heaven, along with the Benai’elohim. The holy order of angels. The hosts/armies of YHWH, are “elohim” / gods / divinities / immortal powers. The fallen angels, lost their divine nature, becoming demons. Fallen ones. The judges of Israel, are “elohim”, because they function as and represent, YHWH’s justice and authority.

Exo 21:6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges (elohim); he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.
Exo 22:8 If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be brought unto the judges (elohim), to see whether he have put his hand unto his neighbour's goods.

1Sa 2:25 If one man sin against another, the judge (elohim) shall judge him: but if a man sin against the LORD, who shall intreat for him? Notwithstanding they hearkened not unto the voice of their father, because the LORD would slay them.

YHWH ELOHIM, is judging through the judges/elohim of Israel:

2Ch_19:6 And said to the judges, Take heed what ye do: for ye judge not for man, but for the LORD, who is with you in the judgment.

Jdg_2:18 And when the LORD raised them up judges, then the LORD was with the judge, and delivered them out of the hand of their enemies …..

Deu_16:18 Judges and officers shalt thou make thee in all thy gates, which the LORD thy God giveth thee, throughout thy tribes: and they shall judge the people with just judgment.

YHWH Elohim, is with the judges of Israel, hence they are elohim. They represent YHWH’s justice and authority. Here we see the Hebraic principle of agency/Shaliach. The agent is identified with, synonymous with, the one who sent him. The “medium”, the conduit, is identified with, the one who is working through him. An embassy, with all of its staff, is considered one and the same, with the country they represent. The “benai’elohim”, are of the order of immortal divinities, because they represent the almighty, immortal DVINITY/YHWH. They are of the order of “hosts” / armies, of YHWH. So they are elohim. They are to be respected, honored.

I’m going to give you a few more examples of this biblical principle of “agency” / Shaliach:

Exo 4:13 And he said, O my Lord, send, I pray thee, by the hand of him whom thou wilt send.
Exo 4:14 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Moses, and he said, Is not Aaron the Levite thy brother? I know that he can speak well. And also, behold, he cometh forth to meet thee: and when he seeth thee, he will be glad in his heart.
Exo 4:15 And thou shalt speak unto him, and put words in his mouth: and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what ye shall do.
Exo 4:16 And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him God (Elohim).
Exo 4:17 And thou shalt take this rod in thine hand, wherewith thou shalt do signs.
Exo 7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee ELOHIM to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
Exo 7:2 Thou shalt speak all that I command thee: and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he send the children of Israel out of his land.

In the Hebrew, YHWH says, “You are God to him (Aaron)”, “ You are Elohim to Pharaoh”. Moses is God to Aaron and pharaoh. Why? Is Moses literally GOD? Elohim? No. He is GOD to Aaron and Pharaoh, because he is representing God to Aaron and Pharaoh. The agent and the principle (the one who sent him), become as one. Moses represents the authority and power of GOD, to both Aaron and pharaoh, so YHWH had no problem, no issue, with identifying Moses, as Himself. Moses has power of attorney. Do prophets have prophets? Only God has prophets, right? Well, Aaron becomes the prophet, the mouthpiece, of Moses.

It’s a chain of command. A hierarchy. That’s how YHWH works, through His hosts, his armies, his agents / angels, prophets….etc. Aaron, wasn’t just the mouthpiece of Moses, but likewise, his hands. He was the one holding the rod, and performing the miracles. The divine power, was transmitted to him, from YHWH, through Moses.

Exo_4:20 And Moses took his wife and his sons, and set them upon an ***, and he returned to the land of Egypt: and Moses took the rod of God in his hand.
It’s the rod of God that is the instrument through which YHWH’s power performs “signs” / miracles, in Moses’ hand:
Exo 4:17 And thou shalt take this rod in thine hand (in Moses’ hand), wherewith thou shalt do signs.
But this rod is not just in Moses’ hand, it is in Aaron’s hand, and it is identified as Aaron’s rod:
Exo_7:9 When Pharaoh shall speak unto you, saying, Shew a miracle for you: then thou shalt say unto Aaron, Take thy rod, and cast it before Pharaoh, and it shall become a serpent.
Exo_7:10 And Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharaoh, and they did so as the LORD had commanded: and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a serpent.
Exo_7:19 And the LORD spake unto Moses, Say unto Aaron, Take thy rod, and stretch out thine hand upon the waters of Egypt………..
Exo_7:20 And Moses and Aaron did so, as the LORD commanded; and he lifted up the rod, and smote the waters….
Exo_8:5 And the LORD spake unto Moses, Say unto Aaron, Stretch forth thine hand with thy rod over the streams, over the rivers, and over the ponds, and cause frogs to come up upon the land of Egypt.
Exo_8:16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Say unto Aaron, Stretch out thy rod, and smite the dust of the land, that it may become lice throughout all the land of Egypt.
Exo_8:17 And they did so; for Aaron stretched out his hand with his rod, and smote the dust of the earth, and it became lice in man, and in beast; all the dust of the land became lice throughout all the land of Egypt.

The hand of Moses, is the hand of Aaron. Aaron is the mouthpiece and hand of Moses. The rod of God, is the rod of Moses, that is likewise the rod of Aaron.

Examine this:

Exo 3:20 And I will stretch out my hand, and smite Egypt with all my wonders which I will do in the midst thereof: and after that he will let you go.
It’s God’s hand that performed the miracles.
Exo 7:4 But Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you, that I may lay my hand upon Egypt, and bring forth mine armies, and my people the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt by great judgments.
Exo 7:5 And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD, when I stretch forth mine hand upon Egypt, and bring out the children of Israel from among them

Above we read, that it is YHWH’s hand that was stretched out, performing miracles.
We read earlier that it was Aaron’s hand that was stretched out over the water. Remember? The Israelites were freed from Egypt, by God’s hand, Moses hand and Aaron’s hand:

Psa 77:20 Thou leddest thy people like a flock by the hand of Moses and Aaron.

Isa_63:12 That led them by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm, dividing the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name?

The right hand of Moses, is Aaron. He is the “right hand”. God’s hand, through Moses, through Aaron, led the children of Israel out of Egypt. We’re missing one piece in the puzzle:

Act_7:35 This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made thee a ruler and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush.
It was God’s hand, that freed the Israelites from Egypt. It was also the angel’s hand. YHWH’s hand, The Angel’s hand, Moses’ hand, Moses right hand/Aaron’s hand. That’s a lot of hands huh? It’s really just one hand, the hand of God. THE HAND OF YHWH. The Power of YHWH, being transmitted through His agents.

Psa 78:49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them. ….
Psa 78:52 But made his own people to go forth like sheep, and guided them in the wilderness like a flock.
Psa 78:53 And he led them on safely, so that they feared not: but the sea overwhelmed their enemies.

YHWH’S hand, the angel’s hand, Moses’ hand , Aarons hand. ONE HAND. They are all as one. They’re working in tandem, together, united in purpose and action.
This post would be to long, if I gave you all of the examples of divine agency, in the Hebrew bible. There are more.



This passage is actually saying the very opposite of what you’re asserting. Read that verse in context. The “elohim”/gods there, are the fallen angels, that are worshiped by the nations, in the form of idols. The demonic forces, that rule over the nations, receive worship, through idolatry. These fallen angels, are not the gods that created this universe, and EVEN THEY, will perish. Why say “Even they” ? Isn’t that redundant, if they’re expected to perish? That “EVEN THEY”, insinuates, strongly suggests, that typically, these “elohim”, don’t perish. They’re immortal. EVEN THEY, will perish. These aren't mere idols, but the demons behind them.

Let’s read Jeremiah 10, in context:

Jer 10:1 Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
Jer 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

Here we are being told, in the first chapter, that God is referring to the idolatry of the heathen, who worship the stars, the signs of heaven. Let’s continue:

Jer 10:3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

The idolatry of the heaven…Continue:

Jer 10:8 But they are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities.
Jer 10:9 Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple is their clothing: they are all the work of cunning men.

Idolatry….Continue:

Jer 10:10 But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.
Jer 10:11 Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.
Jer 10:12 He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.

Here he is saying, that these demonic, fallen angels, did not create this world, and they will perish from God’s creation. It doesn’t imply that God’s creative power, wasn’t bestowed upon His holy angels, to create this earth and all life in it. The reason, we were taken captive by the fallen angels, the demonic forces of the rebel spirit that rebelled against God in heaven, is because we were created by God, through His holy angels.

Let’s continue:

Jer 10:14 Every man is brutish in his knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them.
Jer 10:15 They are vanity, and the work of errors: in the time of their visitation they shall perish.
Jer 10:24 O LORD, correct me, but with judgment; not in thine anger, lest thou bring me to nothing.
Jer 10:25 Pour out thy fury upon the heathen that know thee not, and upon the families that call not on thy name: for they have eaten up Jacob, and devoured him, and consumed him, and have made his habitation desolate.
Again, a reference to idolatry. The idolatry of the heathen. These gods that will perish, lost their divine nature, when they rebelled against God, and now they will perish. These are not the angels / gods / elohim, that created this world. To suggest that YHWH will kill His holy angels, allowing them to perish, is preposterous.



“Everybody else” didn’t create the universe. It was YHWH, working through His angels (His holy angels, are not “Everybody else”). When YHWH, says that he alone is the creator, that means that he is the ultimate source of creation. It doesn’t mean that, he didn’t use His holy angels / elohim to create. For example:

Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Beside the Lord, there is NO SAVIOR. He alone is savior, right? No. That’s not what this is saying. You’re not interpreting it correctly. This means, that he is the ultimate, absolute source of salvation. Without God, there is no salvation. God Himself, sends saviors:

Jdg 3:15 But when the children of Israel cried unto the LORD, the LORD raised them up a savior, Ehud the son of Gera, a Benjamite, a man lefthanded: and by him the children of Israel sent a present unto Eglon the king of Moab.

Neh_9:27 Therefore thou deliveredst them into the hand of their enemies, who vexed them: and in the time of their trouble, when they cried unto thee, thou heardest them from heaven; and according to thy manifold mercies thou gavest them saviours, who saved them out of the hand of their enemies.

These saviors are the judges/elohim of Israel. They are saviors, sent by God Himself to save. Yet, God is still the only true savior. No one saves like God. He is a unique savior, because He is the very source of salvation. All of the other “saviors”, receive their power to save, from YHWH. There are many saviors, but only one almighty, SAVIOR. You get it? Look:

Oba_1:21 And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD'S.

YHWH sends saviors. God saves through his angels, messengers, prophets, judges….etc. YHWH as savior, is still unique, in being the source of salvation. In this sense, He is the only savior. In another sense, there are other saviors, that he sends. This same truth, can be applied to creation. God is the only creator, in the sense that he is the absolute source of creation. Nonetheless, He creates through His angels. His creative power, His divine hand, is transmitted to the angels.

The angels are the eyes, hands, arms of YHWH, the agents through which He manifests His presence and power.

How you managed to use a million words and not hit the point in question is amazing. Reading that post was like watching a bullet fired in the wrong direction. It just kept going .... for miles at the wrong target. Now that you've wasted that effort, how about backing up and addressing the question?

1. The angels may be included under the umbrella of the name of God, and anything powerful may also be sometimes called a god or gods. This wasn't in dispute, and if you would pay attention to the question put to you, it was even granted for purposes of discussion.

2. You were challenged that even if angels were called gods, they did not create the heavens and the earth. So right after you say "It's fully supported by scripture" you run with 3700 words, none of them establishing that angels created anything.

As a reminder, here's the (short) question / challenge / dilemma that was put to you:

Not only is that unsupported by scripture, but it's strongly implied against. If the angels are gods, and if God used the gods to create this world, then it is properly said that all the gods created the heavens and the earth

3. Since you also apply the "gods who did not create the earth" to devils, this should have been easier, so I don't know how you're sloughing this.

Jeremiah 10:11 KJV
(11) Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.

I am not sure what you are thinking, but it is generally accepted that the angels that sinned did so after the creation of the earth, not before. So unless you have God picking and choosing which will be obedient in the future and assigning only those ones to be Creators, I'm not sure how you're avoiding the obvious point. The point is that there are "gods" who "have no made the heavens and the earth." Your theory seems to require that all the "gods" created the heavens and the earth.

4. You didn't answer this in any satisfactory manner:

More ever, if the gods created the heavens and the earth, why would the LORD say that he created the heavens and earth alone, by himself? And how could it be a unique title (anything other than redundant) to say that he maketh all things, if really everybody else made all things?

You pretty much evaded that without giving an answer. The Creator of the heavens and the earth is a unique identification. God says he did it alone. Your version says that God pulled in every thing in existence to do it for him, and makes the text nonsense. Why would he say that he alone created the heavens and the earth, when anything made of spirit would be able to also claim that it created the heavens and the earth with him?

 

[Rosenritter]

Saying that Jesus is the spirit of YHWH, and essentially YHWH, doesn't make it so. Jesus' spirit and YHWH's spirit, are united in purpose and action. YHWH's presence and power, works through Jesus, speaks through Jesus, but that doesn't make Jesus YHWH. YHWH has seven spirits, or angels, that represent Him and are explicitly identified as the "spirits of God". Following your line of reasoning, since these spirits, are more explicitly described as "The spirits of God", than even the spirit of Jesus, which is never explicitly identified as such, then you must believe YHWH is comprised of seven spirits or angels. You would also have to believe that Elijah is God, because the spirit of Elijah is closely identified with the spirit of God, in the passages I presented in my last post to you.

Citing Paul, doesn't prove anything. He's not one of the 12 apostles, hence has no authority to determine doctrine for us. Only Jesus and His twelve apostles can do that.

You're not one of the twelve apostles either. But unlike you, Paul has the sanction of Jesus and Peter both in writing.

 

[patrick jane]

Tell us all, how Elisha, received the spirit of Elijah, if Elijah isn't YHWH's spirit? How did John the Baptist, function in the spirit and power of Elijah, if Elijah isn't YHWH? I'm just following your fuzzy logic. Poor reasoning. I've already addressed this in past posts, with book, chapter and verse. You continue to ignore the obvious. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

If Jesus is YHWH, because people have his spirit, then Elijah is YHWH because people have his spirit. If it's "bing bing" over there, it's "bing bing" over here too. Got it? You can't have your cake and eat it too. Think.

It's Ok. People with low IQs don't understand how Jesus is God

 

[lifeisgood]

A four year old can rebuke you guys and tell you guys that you are wrong.

Yes, you are correct, gt, a four-year-old child can tell gt that saying:

All you did is prove how much more I mean to God.

is wrong

 

[clefty]

You obviously don't get it. Elisha, received the spirit of Elijah. That's what the scriptures say. Following your line of reasoning, Elijah is God/Spirit Of God, because Elisha received Elijah's spirit. How can a man, literally receive the spirit of another man? Are you saying that Elisha was literally possessed, infused, with Elijah? If having the spirit of Messiah, of Christ, automatically makes that spirit, God's spirit. Then Elisha, having the spirit of Elijah, makes Elijah's spirit, God's spirit. Unless of course you believe Elisha was literally infused, by the spirit of Elijah.

Elisha had the spirit of God, and the term "Elijah's spirit" is being used here, interchangeably, with God's own spirit. Following your flawed logic, since Elijah's spirit is being identified with God's spirit, then that makes Elijah God. If Jesus' spirit is being described interchangeably, with God's spirit, then according to you, Jesus spirit, is God's spirit. If this holds true for Jesus, it holds true for Elijah as well. The spirit of both these men, is synonymous, with God's spirit. Get it? Think.


Did John The Baptist, literally function, operate, did he come with, the spirit and power of Elijah? The gospel of Luke, tells us that John came, operated in, the spirit and power of Elijah. Did he really, literally do that? He really came in the spirit and power of another man's spirit? Really? No. He actually came in the spirit and power of God. Elisha the prophet, had God's spirit, not Elijah's. It is a figure of speech. Do you know what an "idiom" is ? Idiomatic language. It's an idiom. Symbolic language. It's not to be taken literally. Like "it's raining cats and dogs". You don't literally believe it's raining cats and dogs right? You don't literally believe, that Elisha received the spirit of Elijah, right? You don't literally believe that John The Baptist, came in the spirit and power of Elijah, right? But you believe, literally, that if we have the spirit of Christ, that automatically implies the spirit of Christ, is God's spirit. That's flawed reasoning.

You don't understand biblical principles, hence you come to these skewed conclusions. You don't interpret the bible correctly.

Hope you read scripture better than my posts...

I said "The donkey received the Spirit certainly is NOT Yah"

Could be clearer I suppose

The donkey received the Spirit of Yah that certainly does not make the donkey Yah.

How's that?

Would the Bible writers have had the chance to spell it out...alas

 

[lifeisgood]

Hope you read scripture better than my posts...

I said "The donkey received the Spirit certainly is NOT Yah"

There's a spirit of reading for INcomprehension going on around here. :chuckle:

 

[lifeisgood]

I wish I knew how to pull up the reputation comments section other than waiting for a new comment to come in and trigger a prompt. Your loving inserts bring a warmth that I'd love to share. They always make me smile.

When I click on settings above I see all the reps inbound and outbound.

 

[clefty]

There's a spirit of reading for INcomprehension going on around here. :chuckle:

Ha...other spirits indeed...of liquid form?

Or the lyin' type?

1 kings 22

Then Micaiah said, “Therefore hear the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing by, on His right hand and on His left. 20 And the Lord said, ‘Who will persuade Ahab to go up, that he may fall at Ramoth Gilead?’ So one spoke in this manner, and another spoke in that manner. 21 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord, and said, ‘I will persuade him.’ 22 The Lord said to him, ‘In what way?’ So he said, ‘I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And the Lord said, ‘You shall persuade him, and also prevail. Go out and do so.’

Many spirits...all with the same origin

 

[RealityJerk]

How you managed to use a million words and not hit the point in question is amazing. Reading that post was like watching a bullet fired in the wrong direction. It just kept going .... for miles at the wrong target. Now that you've wasted that effort, how about backing up and addressing the question?

1. The angels may be included under the umbrella of the name of God, and anything powerful may also be sometimes called a god or gods. This wasn't in dispute, and if you would pay attention to the question put to you, it was even granted for purposes of discussion.

2. You were challenged that even if angels were called gods, they did not create the heavens and the earth. So right after you say "It's fully supported by scripture" you run with 3700 words, none of them establishing that angels created anything.

As a reminder, here's the (short) question / challenge / dilemma that was put to you:



3. Since you also apply the "gods who did not create the earth" to devils, this should have been easier, so I don't know how you're sloughing this.

Jeremiah 10:11 KJV
(11) Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.

I am not sure what you are thinking, but it is generally accepted that the angels that sinned did so after the creation of the earth, not before. So unless you have God picking and choosing which will be obedient in the future and assigning only those ones to be Creators, I'm not sure how you're avoiding the obvious point. The point is that there are "gods" who "have no made the heavens and the earth." Your theory seems to require that all the "gods" created the heavens and the earth.

4. You didn't answer this in any satisfactory manner:

You pretty much evaded that without giving an answer. The Creator of the heavens and the earth is a unique identification. God says he did it alone. Your version says that God pulled in every thing in existence to do it for him, and makes the text nonsense. Why would he say that he alone created the heavens and the earth, when anything made of spirit would be able to also claim that it created the heavens and the earth with him?

The problem, is that you're unable to comprehend what you're reading and you have the attention span of a gnat.

YHWH's hand, his arms, his eyes, are the angels. I showed you how, YHWH's hand, liberated the children of Israel from Egypt, through His agents. YHWH states that He delivered Israel alone:

Deu 32:10* He found him in a desert land, and in the waste howling wilderness; he led him about, he instructed him, he kept him as the apple of his eye.*
Deu 32:11* As an eagle stirreth up her nest, fluttereth over her young, spreadeth abroad her wings, taketh them, beareth them on her wings:*
Deu 32:12* So the LORD alone did lead him, and there was no strange god with him.*

Deu 32:13* He made him ride on the high places of the earth, that he might eat the increase of the fields; and he made him to suck honey out of the rock, and oil out of the flinty rock;*

God did it alone..See? That simply means, that there weren't any false gods with him. He does use His agents.

Exo 23:23 For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.
Exo 23:27 I will send my fear before thee, and will destroy all the people to whom thou shalt come, and I will make all thine enemies turn their backs unto thee.
Exo 23:28 And I will send hornets before thee, which shall drive out the Hivite, the Canaanite, and the Hittite, from before thee.

The angel, with the hornets/angels..The commander of YHWH's armies, with at least a battalion or two of Angels. Earlier, when the children of Israel, were still in Egypt, God did the same exact thing:

Psa 78:49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.

He sent his angels of destruction. So, God delivered Israel form Egypt and lead them in the desert "alone", yet he used His angels. He didn't do it, through the agency of demons, and no one had to help him. He chose to use His holy angels. The angels described as "evil", aren't really "evil", in the sense of being "sinful". The word for evil in Hebrew, "Ra", can mean, destruction, chaos. These angels cause chaos, for the wicked. Destruction. Angels of Destruction.

Just because God says, he did something "alone", doesn't mean that he didn't use his agents. His messengers/angels, prophets..etc.

 

[lifeisgood]

The Rider on the horse is the Spirit, it is his sword, coming out of his mouth.

What is the sword?

The sword that the rider of Rev. 19 brings with Him is the word of God, the Bible, just like when He brought the Bible (OT) with Him to the desert when confronted by Satan. Jesus had learned to use the sword with precision exactly as Paul teaches us.

Rev. 19 proves that the rider is Christ, but NOT that the rider is the Spirit as you vociferously assert.

Ephesians 6:17 - Helmet of salvation has to do with the renewing of the mind, which is done by understanding that everything we receive from the Lord, comes to us through Jesus Christ and His perfect, atoning, vicarious, sacrificial, completed/finished work on the Cross of Calvary.

The sword mentioned in the verse you provided is the μάχαιραν (maxairon) which is the short sword carried by the Roman foot soldier. This is not the large broad sword carried by the heavy cavalry. The Roman soldier had to learn to use the weapon with precision. For us Christians Paul was saying that this sword is to be used not only defensively but also offensively against the enemy. The parallel of this sword and the Bible as a spiritual weapon is amazing for we are taught to use the Bible with the same precision as the Roman soldier had to learn to use his sword.

The word of God is the Bible. It could also be translated as the “sword BY the Spirit” or even “the spiritual sword” which specifically describes the relationship of the Holy Spirit and the written word of God. “For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” (Hebrews 4:12).

 

[lifeisgood]

I gave scriptures that plainly say the Lord is the Spirit.

Out of its original context.

 

[RealityJerk]

I am not sure what you are thinking, but it is generally accepted that the angels that sinned did so after the creation of the earth, not before. So unless you have God picking and choosing which will be obedient in the future and assigning only those ones to be Creators, I'm not sure how you're avoiding the obvious point. The point is that there are "gods" who "have no made the heavens and the earth." Your theory seems to require that all the "gods" created the heavens and the earth.

My so called theory, doesn't "require that all" the elohim, created this universe. Why would you jump to the conclusion, that every single angel in God's kingdom, would have to participate in the creation of this universe, if the angels created this universe? You are also asserting without evidence, that this world was created, after the war in heaven, which is not necessarily the case. However, even if that were true, it still doesn't discount the possibility, that the holy angels, created this world, even after the rebellion in heaven.

The angels are the eyes, arms, hands, even the very face of YHWH. The presence and glory of YHWH is transmitted through His angels.

 

[lifeisgood]

Could these be referring to Christ, yet not exactly the same physical man Jesus that walked the earth some 2000 years ago?

The way I see 2 Corinthians 3:17-18:

Paul after saying that the Lord Jesus was “the spirit,” Paul says, “But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord, the spirit,” (2 Corinthians 3:18).

Paul was saying that we who have turned to Christ we do read Moses (Torah), we see the glory of the Lord Jesus and we are being conformed to Christ’s image.

Paul wanted them and us to see Jesus as the promised seed of Abraham, the lion of Judah, the Lamb of God, the perfect sacrifice, and the great High Priest.

Jesus is the key to the spiritual understanding of the Old Testament.

Without Jesus there is only the letter which kills, but through Christ there is the spirit that gives life.

 

[RealityJerk]

A business owner, might say " I'm a self made millionaire. I built this company from scratch, alone..", that doesn't mean, he doesn't have employees. In God's case, he doesn't need employees, but He chooses to have them anyways. There is a passage in the bible, which I'm looking for, where it says, the king of Babylon, built Babylon, alone. Perhaps you can find it? I'll keep looking..

We all know that the king of Babylon, didn't construct Babylon, alone. He had construction workers, building his palace and the hanging gardens..etc. He didn't do all of that, literally, alone. God can literally do it alone, but he chooses not to.

 

[RealityJerk]

It's Ok. People with low IQs don't understand how Jesus is God

But you of course, "understand", how he is YHWH? How so? Provide me with your evidence, and I'll examine it.

 

[RealityJerk]

Hope you read scripture better than my posts...

I said "The donkey received the Spirit certainly is NOT Yah"

Could be clearer I suppose

The donkey received the Spirit of Yah that certainly does not make the donkey Yah.

How's that?

Would the Bible writers have had the chance to spell it out...alas

Amazing. I'm not saying, that a donkey or Elisha, is God, because they received the spirit of God. What I am saying, is in my previous posts, that you are obviously unable to read and comprehend. But that's OK, others will get it.

 

[popsthebuilder]

The way I see 2 Corinthians 3:17-18:

Paul after saying that the Lord Jesus was “the spirit,” Paul says, “But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord, the spirit,” (2 Corinthians 3:18).

Paul was saying that we who have turned to Christ we do read Moses (Torah), we see the glory of the Lord Jesus and we are being conformed to Christ’s image.

Paul wanted them and us to see Jesus as the promised seed of Abraham, the lion of Judah, the Lamb of God, the perfect sacrifice, and the great High Priest.

Jesus is the key to the spiritual understanding of the Old Testament.

Without Jesus there is only the letter which kills, but through Christ there is the spirit that gives life.

So you understand that St. Paul is saying that the Spirit dwells in the heart of the believer, and that the Spirit is Christ, making the believer the body of Christ?