The Trinity

[Right Divider]

Right Divider, I saw the original quote. The words were "shown to us three ways" not "shown to be three ways."

Isa 29:20-21
(20) For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off:
(21) That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought.

...surely there's plenty of stuff to argue about without having to go to those extremes?

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are NOT "shown to us in three ways".

The Father is a PERSON, as is the Son. They talk to each other. It's not hard to follow unless you reject the truth.

Gal 4:16 (KJV)​

(4:16) Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? ​

 

[Lon]

Right Divider, I saw the original quote. The words were "shown to us three ways" not "shown to be three ways."

I think the wrong quote. I believe he was referring to this one:

HA! You say the Son is not a way!

 

[popsthebuilder]

Marhig, please show the passage where it says that Jesus was tempted with evil.

Are you kidding?

Matthew: 4. 1. Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. 3. And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. 4. But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. 5. Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, 6. And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. 7. Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. 8. Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9. And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. 10. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. 11. Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

Matthew: 22. 18. But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?

Luke: 4. 2. Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.

Luke: 4. 13. And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season.

Luke: 20. 23. But he perceived their craftiness, and said unto them, Why tempt ye me?

Luke: 22. 27. For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth. 28. Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.



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[Bright Raven]

He was led TO THE DESERT to be tempted.

That is proof that it wasn't an every day thing like it is for you.

It isn't even an every day thing for many Christians.

How naive of you to think that his only temptation was in the desert. He lived life just like you and me and he was tempted just like you and me.

 

[marhig]

Marhig, please show the passage where it says that Jesus was tempted with evil.

Satan is evil and he tempted Jesus!

 

[marhig]

You said Jesus was tempted with evil. According to our epistle of James, that means "failed when tempted."

Jas 1:12-15
(12) Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
(13) Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
(14) But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
(15) Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

1. Jesus was not tempted with evil, for had he been tempted in that fashion, it would have brought forth sin and death.
2. Jesus had no need for a crown of life. He's the one that gives the crown of life to us, he has life in Himself.

And what does Satan tempt with? Good?

How can you think that Jesus wasn't tempted when the Bible clearly says he was? When Satan tempts us, it's always to go against the will of God he is evil.

And no, we can be tempted and not sin which then doesn't bring forth sin or death because we haven't sinned because we've denied it by the power of the Spirit! Once we are born of God we should be able to discern good from evil and turn away, we will sin but hopefully not wilfully.

 

[lifeisgood]

You are foul mouthed and are dishonest, IMHO.

Oh, foolish, foolish woman. You can't stand that Christ Jesus does not need you to save you, do you.

You who so vociferously say you OBEY ALL of Jesus' commandments and then when asked confess (but does not repent) that you do not obey all of them, and then keeps on demanding that all follow your flawed confessed and not repented example.

 

[lifeisgood]

What if someone is paralyzed and can't move and can't talk and can only think and experience emotions? I say you don't have enough understanding about what is spiritual.

Oh, foolish, foolish woman.

So in your world, Helen Keller did not necessitate repentance nor could repent of anything because she was deaf and blind and isolated imposed by a near complete lack of language. Got it.

 

[lifeisgood]

They do more than just believe, because believing ONLY IS DEAD.

So in your scenario a paralyzed that can't move that can't talk and can only think and experience emotions cannot be saved because they CAN ONLY BELIEVE and in your world his/her faith is dead. Got it.

Oh, foolish, foolish woman.

 

[lifeisgood]

Both thieves believed.

But in gt's world belief is not enough. So, even though you said they believed, you say their faith is dead because they could not do anything to be saved.

Oh, foolish, foolish woman.

 

[lifeisgood]

No,....

That is as far as I could make myself read.

 

[Nihilo]

Oh, foolish, foolish woman.

Oh, foolish, foolish woman.

Oh, foolish, foolish woman.

How do you know this? I at one time depended upon reading poker hands for my livelihood, and I can't find once whether this user account ever identified as a woman or lady. I put Gt on a team, because I can't positively identify them as an individual. If they are an individual, they seem to me, as a former professional poker player, as a man, who is currently relishing in others falsely thinking he's female. And the silliest thing about this whole matter of just who is commanding Gt's user account, is that it doesn't matter in the slightest bit whether they are male, female, or both, because on the merits, they're wrong, and flatly. You're only hurting yourself in deciding without need to, that Gt is a lady.

FWIW, politely. :e4e:

 

[lifeisgood]

How do you know this? I at one time depended upon reading poker hands for my livelihood, and I can't find once whether this user account ever identified as a woman or lady. I put Gt on a team, because I can't positively identify them as an individual. If they are an individual, they seem to me, as a former professional poker player, as a man, who is currently relishing in others falsely thinking they're female. And the silliest thing about this whole matter of just who is commanding Gt's user account, is that it doesn't matter in the slightest bit whether they are male, female, or both, because on the merits, they're wrong, and flatly. You're only hurting yourself in deciding without need to, that Gt is a lady.

FWIW, politely. :e4e:

You go tell gt she is a he or an it and see what the response will be. Don't tell me that I did not warn you.

 

[Nihilo]

they cannot handle that Jesus is actually God the Father come in the flesh as a Man.

Nobody can handle that, Gt, because you made it up.

There is only one God, not three different Gods calling themselves one God.

Right. And?

The trinity doctrine says they are different and all together make one God.

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, are distinct, and God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

No, they are not different. They are exactly the same.

Made up.

lain:

:juggle:

:chew:

:down:

 

[Nihilo]

You go tell gt she is a he or an it and see what the response will be. Don't tell me that I did not warn you.

Gt has always refused to either confirm or deny. :idunno:

 

[Rosenritter]

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are NOT "shown to us in three ways".

The Father is a PERSON, as is the Son. They talk to each other. It's not hard to follow unless you reject the truth.

Gal 4:16 (KJV)​

(4:16) Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? ​

Am I allowed to respectfully disagree as to the details? If I was allowed to choose, I'd much prefer respectful disagreement, over the the angry argumentative disagreement.

 

[Rosenritter]

Are you kidding?

Matthew: 4. 1. Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. 3. And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. 4. But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. 5. Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, 6. And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. 7. Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. 8. Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9. And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. 10. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. 11. Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

Matthew: 22. 18. But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?

Luke: 4. 2. Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.

Luke: 4. 13. And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season.

Luke: 20. 23. But he perceived their craftiness, and said unto them, Why tempt ye me?

Luke: 22. 27. For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth. 28. Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.



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So would you please show, with boldface, where it says that Jesus was tempted with evil, as per the definition that keeps being alluded to in James? I assume that's what all this claim of "Jesus was tempted with evil" is all about, isn't it? A word game to try to say that God cannot be God if he experiences our trials in the flesh?

James 1:12-15 KJV
(12) Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
(13) Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
(14) But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
(15) Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

If that's the sense you're speaking in, then you're saying that Jesus was sinful, and brought forth death. And in that case we do have cause for further discussion.

 

[Rosenritter]

Satan is evil and he tempted Jesus!

James 1:12-15 KJV
(12) Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
(13) Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
(14) But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
(15) Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Marhig, we both know that words can circle about all day if we persist. As per the relevant passage in James 1, verse 13 says that God cannot be tempted with evil. It then goes on to define what it means by being tempted, and one that is tempted in that manner sins and brings forth death.

Do you mean to say that Jesus was tempted with evil as per the passage in James 1:13-14 above?
a) No, Jesus was not tempted with evil, as he was without spot or sin
b) Yes, Jesus was tempted with evil, he succumbed to his lusts, and brought forth sin and death

 

[Rosenritter]

And what does Satan tempt with? Good?

How can you think that Jesus wasn't tempted when the Bible clearly says he was? When Satan tempts us, it's always to go against the will of God he is evil.

And no, we can be tempted and not sin which then doesn't bring forth sin or death because we haven't sinned because we've denied it by the power of the Spirit! Once we are born of God we should be able to discern good from evil and turn away, we will sin but hopefully not wilfully.

I never said Satan did not tempt Jesus, and the Bible doesn't say that people don't tempt God. What I am doing is focusing on a misuse of scripture that wrests the self-contained meaning of James words to deny the person of God and Christ.

I am well aware of a Unitarian argument that says "God cannot be tempted, Jesus was tempted, therefore Jesus is not God" - and at its root it's a flimsy piece of sophistry.

1) The Bible does not say God is not tempted. It says God has been tempted.
2) The Bible does say that God is not tempted with evil. And then it defines "tempted" in that context to mean sinning unto death.

I'm challenging you, and Pops, or anyone else here to at least be consistent with your argument. If you want to claim that "Jesus was tempted, therefore cannot be God" then by the same passage you're using for that, your assessment also means Jesus sinned unto death. Because the defined meaning of "tempted" in James 1:13 is successfully tempted into sin.

Pick a stance and be consistent please.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

I never said Satan did not tempt Jesus, and the Bible doesn't say that people don't tempt God. What I am doing is focusing on a misuse of scripture that wrests the self-contained meaning of James words to deny the person of God and Christ.

I am well aware of a Unitarian argument that says "God cannot be tempted, Jesus was tempted, therefore Jesus is not God" - and at its root it's a flimsy piece of sophistry.

1) The Bible does not say God is not tempted. It says God has been tempted.
2) The Bible does say that God is not tempted with evil. And then it defines "tempted" in that context to mean sinning unto death.

I'm challenging you, and Pops, or anyone else here to at least be consistent with your argument. If you want to claim that "Jesus was tempted, therefore cannot be God" then by the same passage you're using for that, your assessment also means Jesus sinned unto death. Because the defined meaning of "tempted" in James 1:13 is successfully tempted into sin.

Pick a stance and be consistent please.

Jesus was tempted by the devil to turn stones into bread, when He was hungry near to death.

Jesus refused.

LA