God's Truth
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Both thieves believed.
The Trinity
- Thread starter Bright Raven
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Both thieves believed.
Except that you're the one not acknowledging the truth here. I've shown you that those verses don't apply to the Body of Christ, that they only apply to the nation of Israel.
"Faith, not of works" is for the Body.
"Faith and works" is for the Nation of Israel.
That's all part of believing. Not one of those things is a work of obedience. He had faith, and because of that, that day he was in paradise.
No, only one.
The first mocked God. The second one rebuked him and repented.
Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.”But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation?And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.”Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.” - Luke 23:39-43 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke23:39-43&version=NKJV
God's Truth
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Untruthful dishonest person.
YOU USED the scripture of the thief on the cross to support faith only, and then when I had proven you wrong, you said it wasn't for us. THEN WHY DID YOU USE IT DECEIVER?
God's Truth
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Forget about it dishonest person. You are exposed.
What is "it?"
God's Truth
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The SCRIPTURE ABOUT THE THIEF.
God's Truth
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Of course it is obeying, you deceiver.
God says to fear him.
God says to confess and repent.
God says to acknowledge him before others.
God says to call on Him.
Did you forget, dishonest person that YOU ARE GOING AGAINST me for saying we have to obey by repenting?!
Now you say that repenting is not really obeying!
You are caught in your own craftiness.
Rosenritter
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Deuteronomy 6:16 KJV
(16) Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.
Could you please clarify what you mean by "we know GOD cannot be tempted whatsoever?"
a) God cannot be tempted at all, he is immune to our acts and doesn't care one way or another
b) We can tempt God to take extreme actions, but we are commanded not to do this
It looks there like it says that the LORD our God was tempted in Massah, and I'm pretty sure that's the passage Jesus was citing in Matthew 4:7 and Luke 4:12., "It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God" seems to be referring to this passage. Rather than saying that the LORD cannot be tempted, it says that thou shalt not tempt him in like manner.
Ah, but perhaps you are thinking of a different passage?
James 1:12-15 KJV
(12) Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
(13) Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
(14) But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
(15) Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
2. So it you are thinking of the passage above, does it say that God cannot be tempted whatsoever, or rather that God cannot be tempted with evil? There's an important difference.
a) tempted whatsoever
b) tempted with evil
3. Depending on your answer to question 2, and using the definition contained within the context in verse 14, was Jesus tempted with evil?
a) Yes, he was tempted with evil, which is evident that he was draw away by his own lust, enticed, and what it was finished, it brought forth death.
b) No, he was not tempted with evil, which is evident that he was perfect and without sin, a suitable sacrifice for the sins of the world?
I can think of yet another passage that has the word "tempted" in it so let's pull that up too?
Hebrews 4:15 KJV
(15) For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
4. Using the definition provided by James, as applied in question 3, and granting that He felt our infirmities, and was in all points tempte as we are, yet without sin, was Jesus the Son of God tempted by evil?
a) Yes, he was tempted with evil, which is evident that he was draw away by his own lust, enticed, and what it was finished, it brought forth death.
b) No, he was not tempted with evil, which is evident that he was perfect and without sin, a suitable sacrifice for the sins of the world?
There are four questions there. Would you please total up the amount of "A" answers and "B" answers? Thank you.
And if that did not properly address the topic, could you please clarify what you meant by
Rosenritter
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Although there may be some Open Theists that might debate this point, let's accept that God knows of man's situation without having to walk the walk, to actually be in our shoes. The question is not whether God has to physically live out the life as a man to know his situation, but whether his creation will truly believe that he knows our situation, had he not physically lived out the life of a man.
Now there's no question that he understands our infirmities and has felt our pain. The natural man has proof of this.
popsthebuilder
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popsthebuilder
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Angering GOD, and GOD being tempted by the devil are two different things.
I should have been more clear.
I also misspoke about one of the theives; one of them obviously didn't believe that Jesus was the Christ of GOD.
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marhig
Well-known member
No, you will see Christ in them and they will be putting God before themselves in their lives.
And we are saved if we believe in Christ Jesus, and it's through faith, by the grace of God and if we are truly saved, then we will live by God's will daily.
marhig
Well-known member
No only one thief believed, the first one said, "IF" you are the Christ save yourself and save us also. So if he had to ask if Jesus was the Christ, then he didn't believe in him.
popsthebuilder
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So is the Trinity doctrine needed for salvation?
1 John: 4. 9. In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 10. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11. Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. 12. No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. 13. Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. 14. And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
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1 John: 4. 9. In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 10. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11. Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. 12. No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. 13. Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. 14. And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
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marhig
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So in what way do you believe Jesus was tempted then? Seeing as he was tempted in all points as we are? And that God cannot be tempted?
marhig
Well-known member
So at what time was he tempted when his apostles were with him? When he said that they continued with him in his temptations? Thanks
Rosenritter
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Would you like to talk about the temptation of Christ in the wilderness? The devil did test God, and each time Jesus answered as God. There's three questions recorded, with their answers.
Matthew 4:3-4 KJV
(3) And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
(4) But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Translation: Man shall not live but by bread alone, but by the Word that proceeds from the mouth of God. I am the Word, I don't need you to tell me how to survive, I am the source of life for mankind, the bread that came down from heaven. Also, you don't get to order God about.
Matthew 4:5-7 KJV
(5) Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
(6) And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
(7) Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
Translation: Is it not written, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God? Then why are you trying to tempt me, what can you hope to accomplish?
Matthew 4:8-10 KJV
(8) Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
(9) And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
(10) Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Translation: Is it not written, thou shalt worship the Lord thy God? I do not bow down and worship you, you should bow down and worship me.
The devil was testing Jesus. First, there's a possibility that he was not sure if Jesus really was the Son of God. Second, it is possible that he did not understand how the whole Son of God thing worked, and he thought maybe he had a chance. Third, it's possible he knew this was doomed anyway, but he will try the whole "bow down and worship me" thing out of doomed bravado.
5. If your concern about the word tempted comes from James, then according to that same passage in James, was Jesus tempted with evil in the desert?
a) Yes, he was tempted with evil, which is evident that he was drawn away by his own lust, enticed, and when it was finished, it brought forth death.
b) No, he was not tempted with evil, which is evident that he was perfect and without sin, a suitable sacrifice for the sins of the world?
By my tally we should have five "b" answers to those five questions. Without at least a couple of the "a" answers I don't think that this remains a good argument that Jesus, the son of God, was anything less than the fullness of God.
Colossians 2:8-9 KJV
(8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
(9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
I will grant that Jesus didn't come in full power and glory, but power and glory isn't the fulness of the Godhead. He doesn't define himself as the sum or display of powers. God is what makes Him Him.
Rosenritter
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Let's clear away possible word games. I'll translate. It is futile to attempt to tempt God with evil. It won't succeed. It does not matter what methods or conditions are used to tempt God, or how tempting you try to make the temptations, you aren't going to be able to tempt God. This doesn't mean that God is a robot, without feeling or emotion or care, it means that his strength and righteousness will always prevail.
Guess you do not like the truth. He was tempted in every respect as we are, yet without sin.