The Trinity

[popsthebuilder]

John 5:23 Psalm 2:12 Philippians 2:10,11 John 20:28 Seems clear to me. I realize some of them may be saved by God, but If they are new creations, with Him living inside of them Revelation 3:20. To miss the equated elevation of the Son, is a grievous error. I don't know if damning, but it isn't where they should be. I've met too many JW's living a life in the flesh and trying to work their way to heaven instead of understanding what it means to be a new creation. 1 Corinthians 15:50 2 Corinthians 5:17

None should deny the elevation of the Son of GOD. That isn't what Unitarians or monotheists who believe immune Christ of GOD do. I can't rightly speak for all though.

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[popsthebuilder]

God didn't need to do anything. But, out of HIs great love for us, He did become flesh, suffered and died so that we could have life through His resurrection from the dead. It was a Gift to mankind. Something man could not achieve for himself.

Jesus was born of woman, but "that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost". Thus...God and man.

Matt. 1:21-23 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.​

That answers nothing pertaining to my questions.



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[popsthebuilder]

No, 100% God, and %100 man does not make 200% God or man.

Jesus was a human being in all the same ways we are. He was made of flesh and blood.
He was born, grew older, and died.
He wept, He prayed to God, He was tempted as we are. He was man.

Jesus was God from the beginning....was with God and was God.
He created all things...He was before all things...by Him all things consist.
He came out from God, came down from heaven, and returned to His former Glory after He fulfilled His mission on earth. He forgave sins, He knew the hearts of men while here in the flesh. He fed the 5000 with a few loaves and fishes. He walked on water and turned water into wine. He was God.

Was?

Wrong

Now is?

Yes.

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[Truster]

Show me where it says that in the Bible, that we are to worship the Triune Elohim in Spirit and an truth. Or that if we don't, we won't be saved? Because God wouldn't leave something so crucial for salvation out of the scriptures!

This is what I've read!

John 3

Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.

I'll tell you something else Jesus does say in the Bible, that we are to live by the will of God and obey him, something that you call wicked and evil. Yet this is to worship God in Spirit and in truth! As this is exactly how Jesus bore witness to the truth, he lived not by his own will, but by the will of the father and he obeyed him! And those who are of the truth hear his voice and follow him and do the same!

You can't see the truth. Therefore you hate the truth. Therefore you have not been converted.

You hate the truth because it points you in the direction of hell. You hate the truth because it doesn't belong to you. You hate people who have the truth because like Cain you demand that your offering should be accepted.

 

[popsthebuilder]

You can't see the truth. Therefore you hate the truth. Therefore you have not been converted.

You hate the truth because it points you in the direction of hell. You hate the truth because it doesn't belong to you. You hate people who have the truth because like Cain you demand that you offering should be accepted.

Silly silly little bully;

Ask her; I would bet my life that she hates none.... No person.....even you.

Go play in your filthy little sandbox in silence, leaving the mature conversation to those matured in faith; not self deception.

It is very easy to observe who propagates hatred.

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[Truster]

Silly silly little bully;

Ask her; I would bet my life that she hates none.... No person.....even you.

Go play in your filthy little sandbox in silence, leaving the mature conversation to those matured in faith; not self deception.

It is very easy to observe who proposed hatred.

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I don't gamble.

 

[marhig]

You can't see the truth. Therefore you hate the truth. Therefore you have not been converted.

You hate the truth because it points you in the direction of hell. You hate the truth because it doesn't belong to you. You hate people who have the truth because like Cain you demand that your offering should be accepted.

Truster those who say that it is evil as wicked to obey the living God and do his will, hate the truth. Because this is what Jesus taught and he is truth! He is the way, the truth and the life. And his way is the only way, and whether you like it or not we are all to live by it to follow him. We are to live by the will of God, obey him and deny ourselves, bare our cross and follow Jesus! And for those born of God, all of this can be achieved by the power of the Holy Spirit through our Lord Jesus Christ who has given us a new and living way, who is the highest in heaven next to the father. And now that he has come and lived the way, and shown us how to live and love before the father, and how to worship in Spirit as in truth, we have no excuse.

We can't enter into heaven unless we live by the will of God, and our Lord Jesus said that those who don't live by the will of God are workers of iniquity, he also said that those who live by God's will are his brothers and sisters, so I believe it is very important to live by the will of the living God and obey him! Those who say that we don't have to, are listening to Satan, who deceived Eve with that lie from the beginning, wake up!

We are not to wilfully sin, and if we do sin then we are to repent and go to God for forgiveness and put it right if we can. If we can't, then we are to pick ourselves up and pray to God for strength to overcome whatever we are finding hard to stop doing, and through faith and through Christ all things are possible, nothing is impossible with God. But we must live by his will. There's no getting around that. That is the basis of true faith and those who truly love God will want to please him!

 

[Truster]

Truster those who say that it is evil as wicked to obey the living God and do his will, hate the truth. Because this is what Jesus taught and he is truth! He is the way, the truth and the life. And his way is the only way, and whether you like it or not we are all to live by it to follow him. We are to live by the will of God, obey him and deny ourselves, bare our cross and follow Jesus! And for those born of God, all of this can be achieved by the power of the Holy Spirit through our Lord Jesus Christ who has given us a new and living way, who is the highest in heaven next to the father. And now that he has come and lived the way, and shown us how to live and love before the father, and how to worship in Spirit as in truth, we have no excuse.

We can't enter into heaven unless we live by the will of God, and our Lord Jesus said that those who don't live by the will of God are workers of iniquity, he also said that those who live by God's will are his brothers and sisters, so I believe it is very important to live by the will of the living God and obey him! Those who say that we don't have to, are listening to Satan, who deceived Eve with that lie from the beginning, wake up!

We are not to wilfully sin, and if we do sin then we are to repent and go to God for forgiveness and put it right if we can. If we can't, then we are to pick ourselves up and pray to God for strength to overcome whatever we are finding hard to stop doing, and through faith and through Christ all things are possible, nothing is impossible with God. But we must live by his will. There's no getting around that. That is the basis of true faith and those who truly love God will want to please him!

Only those that have been taken out of Adam and now dwell in and by His Son can perform anything that is acceptable in His sight.

 

[God's Truth]

No, it does not show us that they are one in the same. It shows that they work together to attain the same end. I believe that is what the scriptures teach. They co-labor to attain the truths we see in scripture.

...but you will not even admit to what the scriptures say. We must admit the scriptures.

 

[God's Truth]

NO

No


You are taking that out of context as usual. I know you won't really read this text, much less understand it, but you cannot just yank verses from their context and expect them to say what you want...instead of what they actually say. This text is comparing the law which could not give life with the Gospel which does. Do you see the "ministration of death" and the "ministration of the spirit" there? :idea:

2 Cor. 3:6-8 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?​

2 Cor. 3:14-17 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.​

Now, the Lord spoken of is Christ, and He is that spirit (in essence), as God is, John 4:24, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. Comparing the law (written in stone) with the Gospel where the Holy Spirit regenerates, sanctifies, and gives life.




Good grief. The godhead is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They are inseparable....always together...never apart. This is obviously beyond your pay grade. You cannot read "Holy Spirit" into every spirit you see.

Back to the schoolmaster you go. :wave:

You say things but don't understand what your words imply. You also give mere denial as if they are gold and mean anything.
As for you keep speaking about essence, you show you have no understanding. What is that essence, gd?

 

[marhig]

Only those that have been taken out of Adam and now dwell in and by His Son can perform anything that is acceptable in His sight.

Only those who have been taken out of this world by the power of the Holy Spirit through our Lord Jesus can overcome. But nothing can be achieved if we are not willing to become a living sacrifice and lay down our lives for others and live by the will of God.

The very first words that Jesus preached were repent, the kingdom of heaven is at hand (Matthew 4:17) we have freewill and a choice, we can either repent or not. And if we truly repent and love God then we will turn from sin and do Gods will!

 

[God's Truth]

Bright Raven, the official word on the Trinity doctrine is that it cannot be understood.

"If you deny the trinity you lose your soul, if your try to explain the trinity you shall lose your mind" - Saint Augustine.

Now I don't think Augustine has the right to speak for God and Christ or to slay anyone's soul over whether they confirm or deny his doctrine, but I do know that our scripture does say that "What is not of faith is sin" and that if one cannot honestly say that they understand something, they should by no means affirm it.

How many times does it say in the Bible "you must believe in a Trinity?" Now how many times does it say "There is one God?" Yet your explanations sound a lot more like you are saying THREE Gods, three individuals. That would be tri-theistic.

I was going to post the CARM definition article for Trinity here, but it did such a good job of elusiveness without saying anything at all that there was not much to grab hold of one way or the other. Except I did see one part that made me smile:

https://carm.org/does-the-trinity-really-teach-there-are-three-gods


The reason I'm laughing here is because I've seen other Trinity crusaders blast the hated "Modalists" who "incorrectly" use analogies like "solid, liquid, and gas" in relation to God. I guess anything is OK to say as long as you use the word "Trinity."

https://www.gotquestions.org/Holy-Trinity.html


So here's what I have observed in my odd some years watching this subject: as long as you say the word "TRINITY" you're accepted by one side, even if what you actually say is stupid or contradictor. And those that aren't in the TRINITY team will call you TRINITY if you say "Jesus is our Lord and God" and attack you as well, but team TRINITY will call you a heretic for not wearing the team jersey. Do you think this is what Jesus wants?

If you need a Trinity model for you to be able to have faith in Jesus as Lord and God who will raise you from the dead, then use that Trinity model. But Jesus never said to condemn anyone for not believing a model that he never saw fit to give in the first place. If someone else needs a different model to understand Jesus as their Lord God and Savior, then they likewise should use that model, and far be it from us to become stumbling blocks for them. We need to focus on what Jesus said was actually important instead, not keep making up new rules and doctrines like the Pharisees did in Christ's day.

When I tell the trinitarians that their doctrine says it cannot be explained, they deny it.

If you cannot explain your doctrine, then it cannot be defended.

Yet many here keep trying to defend that false doctrine.

 

[God's Truth]

God didn't need to do anything. But, out of HIs great love for us, He did become flesh, suffered and died so that we could have life through His resurrection from the dead. It was a Gift to mankind. Something man could not achieve for himself.

Jesus was born of woman, but "that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost". Thus...God and man.

Matt. 1:21-23 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.​

There isn't a separate God from Thee God who came to earth as a Man.

There is only ONE GOD, and He is the Father.

 

[Truster]

Only those who have been taken out of this world by the power of the Holy Spirit through our Lord Jesus can overcome. But nothing can be achieved if we are not willing to become a living sacrifice and lay down our lives for others and live by the will of God.

The very first words that Jesus preached were repent, the kingdom of heaven is at hand (Matthew 4:17) we have freewill and a choice, we can either repent or not. And if we truly repent and love God then we will turn from sin and do Gods will!

Salvation by works.

 

[Right Divider]

When I tell the trinitarians that their doctrine says it cannot be explained, they deny it.

If you cannot explain your doctrine, then it cannot be defended.

Yet many here keep trying to defend that false doctrine.

It's so simple that a child can understand it, but unbelievers will not.

Matt 28:19 (KJV)​

(28:19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: ​

ONE NAME that belongs to THREE PERSONS.

The Father AND the Son AND the Holy Ghost.

Become a believer and accept what God says about Himself.

 

[marhig]

Salvation by works.

No I can only do the works through our Lord Jesus Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit. I've already said, without God we can do nothing, without his power we are still in darkness under the power of Satan. Jesus is the light and the way out of the pit of darkness. And we can only come to the father through him, the Holy son of the living God his Christ, his beloved son. We can do nothing without him!

 

[God's Truth]

Jesus is not God Almighty,

Glorydaze is wrong when she says Jesus is not the Father, but you are wrong when you say Jesus is not God Almighty.

Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

You obviously go against the written Word of God.

As you can see from that same scriptures that glorydaze goes against that scripture too when she says Jesus is not the Father. That scripture says Jesus' name is Father, Everlasting Father.

 

[God's Truth]

Jesus SAYS not one scripture can be put aside.

 

[God's Truth]

It's so simple that a child can understand it, but unbelievers will not.

Matt 28:19 (KJV)​

(28:19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: ​

ONE NAME that belongs to THREE PERSONS.

The Father AND the Son AND the Holy Ghost.

Become a believer and accept what God says about Himself.

YOUR trinity doctrine says it cannot be understood, so why do you say a child can understand it? Are you going against the trinity doctrine too?

 

[marhig]

Glorydaze is wrong when she says Jesus is not the Father, but you are wrong when you say Jesus is not God Almighty.

Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

You obviously go against the written Word of God.

As you can see from that same scriptures that glorydaze goes against that scripture too when she says Jesus is not the Father. That scripture says Jesus' name is Father, Everlasting Father.

GT how can Jesus be the father when he says the father is greater than he? And that he could do nothing without the father.

He even said that he was sent by the father and that he was doing the father's will and not his own will. So how can he be the father?

The Father was in him!