The Trinity

[Rosenritter]

God did manifest in a physical form before He create anything.

OK, now that's a step into the weird end. Normally you have some sort of scripture for what you say, but that was out of left field.

 

[God's Truth]

Yet the Spirit is referred to as It, and can be. It is too referred to as the Comforter; so why must I consider my help and my comforter a man or even male? Is GOD limited to what it created and formed, or what was formed from what IT begot?

The Holy Spirit is Jesus. Jesus is a male.

 

[God's Truth]

I'm sorry, what?

You claim all creation was created through the physical body of Christ that was physically created. I'm not trying to twist your words; to me that is genuinely what you ate trying to convey. Is that correct?

All creation was was made through the physical body of Christ, and in Christ.

 

[God's Truth]

OK, now that's a step into the weird end. Normally you have some sort of scripture for what you say, but that was out of left field.

I sometimes hold off on giving scriptures until I know someone is interested in discussing it more and actually asks for the scriptures.

Before I start posting the scriptures for my beliefs, tell me, do you believe Jesus has a Spiritual Body of the physical one he had on earth?

 

[popsthebuilder]

Who's speaking here with these words I've quoted from scripture?

Matthew: 10. 41. He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward. 42. And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.

peace

 

[Rosenritter]

Did you ever respond to our being made in the image of God not angels? If God was speaking to the angels, then we'd have to be made in their image, too.

In a fashion, but you are saying it backwards. Let's step through this logically for a moment please:

1. God created all things, including beasts, men, and angels.Hopefully you'll accept that without argument.
2. Man is different from the animals on a fundamental level. This is seen by observation, and we are told that God made man after his image.
3. Angels were created before man. On what level are the angels fashioned?
a) after the manner of beasts?
b) in the image of God?

If we are talking about who was made in the image of whom, it is proper to say that men and angels were created in the image of God. For whatever attribute you think represents "the image of God" the angels also posses those attributes. Man is described as "a little lower than the angels" (Psalm 8:5, Hebrews 2:7-9). Angels can blend in with humans when required, they have the capacity for obedience and sin, they are judged in the judgment.

The angels are created in the image of God, man is created in the image of God, both creations are in the same image. The way you said it makes it sound as if man is an image of an image. Rather, God would be the original image of both.

Would God speak to his host of created angels when creating the earth? Why did he consult with his angels about how to slay a king of Israel, and why did he call them before him in the book of Job? It just seems to be the way he works. He seems to maintain the power and control over creation, but apparently he at least allowed the angels to observe and witness (thus the passage in Job about shouting for joy.)

 

[God's Truth]

Who's speaking here with these words I've quoted from scripture?

Matthew: 10. 41. He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward. 42. And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.

peace

Who are you directing this scripture to? Tell us what you think and why you are you now bringing it up.

 

[Rosenritter]

Rossenritter, you think we were made in the image of angels?

What do you think the image of God means? God created men and angels and they seem to share the same image. An image originating with God.

 

[patrick jane]

GT is a riot !!!

 

[Rosenritter]

God made all creation by Jesus, through him, and for him.

But you just said that Jesus was spirit.

 

[Rosenritter]

Very happy!

Angels did not create.

I don't think so.

So where did anyone say anything about the angels creating?

 

[God's Truth]

What do you think the image of God means? God created men and angels and they seem to share the same image. An image originating with God.

So you don't believe the Son was with the Father from the beginning and the our image is God and the Son?

 

[God's Truth]

But you just said that Jesus was spirit.

Jesus is Spirit and has a physical body. He is Spirit and has a Spiritual Body.

 

[Rosenritter]

I sometimes hold off on giving scriptures until I know someone is interested in discussing it more and actually asks for the scriptures.

Before I start posting the scriptures for my beliefs, tell me, do you believe Jesus has a Spiritual Body of the physical one he had on earth?

I know what a physical body is, as it has mass and volume. As I understand the term "spiritual body" it would mean that that one is composed of spirit without need for physical form or matter. God's body is composed of spirit. The angels have forms that are composed of spirit. These have spiritual bodies, as their form is spiritual and not physical.

But as you say, "do you believe Jesus has a Spiritual Body of the physical one he had on earth?" No. Jesus is not patterned after whatever form he took on earth. When he manifests himself in Revelation his appearance is different than he had on earth. Jesus (God) existed in his natural spiritual form when he created the earth. God took on a physical form when he met with Abraham and when he wrestled Jacob. When God came as a child we knew him as Jesus.

We say that Jesus has a spiritual body because he returned to his natural form. His natural form is spirit, his body is spirit. Not matter.

So unless your question made a mistake in grammar I think you've got that wrong. God is a spirit, it is written. God does not need to manifest into physical form to create physical forms. These are facts that I do not think you will dispute. So I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion. I'm not declaring a war, I'm not going to mock, but I really don't know how you got there.

 

[glorydaz]

In a fashion, but you are saying it backwards. Let's step through this logically for a moment please:

It looks like a bunch of vain imaginings to me.

1. God created all things, including beasts, men, and angels.Hopefully you'll accept that without argument.

YEP

2. Man is different from the animals on a fundamental level. This is seen by observation, and we are told that God made man after his image.

Therefore, beasts were not made in the image of God....nor were angels. Man is special.

3. Angels were created before man. On what level are the angels fashioned?
a) after the manner of beasts?
b) in the image of God?

Neither.

If we are talking about who was made in the image of whom, it is proper to say that men and angels were created in the image of God.

No, scripture only says that about man....not angels.

For whatever attribute you think represents "the image of God" the angels also posses those attributes.

Wrong, angels can't procreate, for one thing. The rest of your post is fiction...made up.
Once you stray from what is written.....ie that angels were created in the image of God, you have gone too far.

 

[Rosenritter]

So you don't believe the Son was with the Father from the beginning and the our image is God and the Son?

I understand that the Son was one with the Father from the beginning in that there were no separate persons, one God. Distinction would only enter because of the nature of his incarnation in human form, at which point God would have also been in the form of a man, after the nature of a man.

One might say that these were "separate persons" but not in the sense of differing personality or nature, or anything in the sense of what truly defines a person as being who they are. It is written if you have seen Jesus, you have seen the Father. Jesus ascended to the Father, and I understand this to be returning to the glory which he (Jesus) formerly possessed. One God, but no longer separation of person. Now when God speaks to us he identifies himself as Jesus. That's how he chose to reveal himself to us.

I don't intend to argue with anyone that they have to have the same imagery or the same analogies. We are given certain things for certain, but other parts were left blank. If they were that important they would have been nailed down with inescapable terms. If one recognizes and acknowledges Jesus as their Lord and their God, with all the faith and dedication that implies, what more is necessary?

1 John 2:22-23 KJV
(22) Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
(23) Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

 

[Rosenritter]

It looks like a bunch of vain imaginings to me.

YEP

Therefore, beasts were not made in the image of God....nor were angels. Man is special.

Neither.

No, scripture only says that about man....not angels.

Wrong, angels can't procreate, for one thing. The rest of your post is fiction...made up.
Once you stray from what is written.....ie that angels were created in the image of God, you have gone too far.

So you are saying that we know angels were not made in the image of God because ... they cannot procreate? Please be specific as to what you understand the image of God to be in the context of Genesis 1.

 

[God's Truth]

I know what a physical body is, as it has mass and volume. As I understand the term "spiritual body" it would mean that that one is composed of spirit without need for physical form or matter.

No, not necessarily. It could mean that the physical body is one that does not get old, decay and die.

God's body is composed of spirit. The angels have forms that are composed of spirit. These have spiritual bodies, as their form is spiritual and not physical.

Okay.

But as you say, "do you believe Jesus has a Spiritual Body of the physical one he had on earth?" No. Jesus is not patterned after whatever form he took on earth.

Why isn't he? His body on earth was resurrected and changed after ascending to heaven.

When he manifests himself in Revelation his appearance is different than he had on earth.

Okay.

Jesus (God) existed in his natural spiritual form when he created the earth. God took on a physical form when he met with Abraham and when he wrestled Jacob. When God came as a child we knew him as Jesus.

Jesus is God and God is Spirit, He made Himself a physical body and that is the body of Christ.
He then made the whole creation by, through, for and in Christ.

We say that Jesus has a spiritual body because he returned to his natural form. His natural form is spirit, his body is spirit. Not matter.

His body is a Spiritual Body meaning it won't die. Jesus has a Spirit inside this Spiritual body.

So unless your question made a mistake in grammar I think you've got that wrong. God is a spirit, it is written. God does not need to manifest into physical form to create physical forms.

Who said God HAD to? God is Spirit, and as spirits are He is invisible. He made Himself a body while also Himself living in unapproachable light. There are three. It is good to keep that in mind while we discuss this. God the Father invisible, God the Father with a body, and the Holy Spirit that goes forth without limit.

These are facts that I do not think you will dispute. So I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion. I'm not declaring a war, I'm not going to mock, but I really don't know how you got there.

Right, you should act decently while we discuss these things.

 

[God's Truth]

I understand that the Son was one with the Father from the beginning in that there were no separate persons, one God. Distinction would only enter because of the nature of his incarnation in human form, at which point God would have also been in the form of a man, after the nature of a man.

One might say that these were "separate persons" but not in the sense of differing personality or nature, or anything in the sense of what truly defines a person as being who they are. It is written if you have seen Jesus, you have seen the Father. Jesus ascended to the Father, and I understand this to be returning to the glory which he (Jesus) formerly possessed. One God, but no longer separation of person. Now when God speaks to us he identifies himself as Jesus. That's how he chose to reveal himself to us.

I don't intend to argue with anyone that they have to have the same imagery or the same analogies. We are given certain things for certain, but other parts were left blank. If they were that important they would have been nailed down with inescapable terms. If one recognizes and acknowledges Jesus as their Lord and their God, with all the faith and dedication that implies, what more is necessary?

1 John 2:22-23 KJV
(22) Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
(23) Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

Usually people want to tell others that they are not saved when one does not believe their false doctrines. Jesus says that in the same way they judge others they will be judged.

 

[popsthebuilder]

The Holy Spirit is Jesus. Jesus is a male.

He was in a physical manifestation. Do you think any would have heard Him if He had been female?

I'm starting to see why you are so stuck on this.

It has to do with one of your beliefs that youthink is scriptural. It pertains to you not dying and also keeping your physical body.

I will refer to GOD as he for the most part here for the sake of profitable communication.

I still hold that it is not wrong for me to personally consider GOD to be without sex or rather encompassing all aspects of life and creation.