The Trinity

[popsthebuilder]

The Holy Spirit is Jesus. Jesus is a male.

And that is a yes; you limit the capacities of GOD to those of a man.

 

[glorydaz]

So you are saying that we know angels were not made in the image of God because ... they cannot procreate? Please be specific as to what you understand the image of God to be in the context of Genesis 1.

I'm saying we know the angels were not created in the image of God.

Prove it with Scripture if that is your claim. opcorn:

 

[popsthebuilder]

It looks like a bunch of vain imaginings to me.



YEP


Therefore, beasts were not made in the image of God....nor were angels. Man is special.



Neither.



No, scripture only says that about man....not angels.




Wrong, angels can't procreate, for one thing. The rest of your post is fiction...made up.
Once you stray from what is written.....ie that angels were created in the image of God, you have gone too far.

Are you not aware that the angels procreated with women of earth and brought forth giants? Bombsite ignoramus relevant but it is in scripture.

 

[popsthebuilder]

No, not necessarily. It could mean that the physical body is one that does not get old, decay and die.


Okay.

Why isn't he? His body on earth was resurrected and changed after ascending to heaven.


Okay.

Jesus is God and God is Spirit, He made Himself a physical body and that is the body of Christ.
He then made the whole creation by, through, for and in Christ.


His body is a Spiritual Body meaning it won't die. Jesus has a Spirit inside this Spiritual body.



Who said God HAD to? God is Spirit, and as spirits are He is invisible. He made Himself a body while also Himself living in unapproachable light. There are three. It is good to keep that in mind while we discuss this. God the Father invisible, God the Father with a body, and the Holy Spirit that goes forth without limit.


Right, you should act decently while we discuss these things.

"Jesus is God and God is Spirit, He made Himself a physical body and that is the body of Christ.

He then made the whole creation by, through, for and in Christ."

Can you show reference for this in Genesis?


"His body is a Spiritual Body meaning it won't die. Jesus has a Spirit inside this Spiritual body."


Scripture supporting above claim please.

 

[glorydaz]

What do you think the image of God means? God created men and angels and they seem to share the same image. An image originating with God.

Can angels do any of this?

Genesis 1:28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.​

Why did God make man in his own image? Where did He get the pattern for man do you think? Why was man created with a body, soul, and spirit? Start thinking about that stuff instead of just claiming angels were created in the image of God as if there was anything to back up that statement.

Do angels have relationships with one another? Where?

Do angels LOVE?

Are angels creative like men are? Artistic? Scholarly? :think:

 

[glorydaz]

Are you not aware that the angels procreated with women of earth and brought forth giants? Bombsite ignoramus relevant but it is in scripture.

That's certainly one of the theories. I don't buy it, and it doesn't say they were angels.

The "giants" were powerful men in the area. The sons of God were the descendants of Seth, and the daughters of men were descendants of Cain.

 

[God's Truth]

And that is a yes; you limit the capacities of GOD to those of a man.

You try to go beyond what is written, and in doing so, you nullify the word of God.

 

[God's Truth]

He was in a physical manifestation. Do you think any would have heard Him if He had been female?

There were many people who worshiped goddesses.

I'm starting to see why you are so stuck on this.

It has to do with one of your beliefs that youthink is scriptural. It pertains to you not dying and also keeping your physical body.

I will refer to GOD as he for the most part here for the sake of profitable communication.

I still hold that it is not wrong for me to personally consider GOD to be without sex or rather encompassing all aspects of life and creation.

I go by the scriptures.

 

[marhig]

I realize you are answering in stages, but I still don't understand the answer thus far. "God foresaw" the crucifixion, so he prophesied it? Do you understand the future as a fixed thing that God cannot change, or rather something that happens as influenced by its actors (including God?)

You asked, "why do you think the following verse means the cross?"



It would mean "the cross" in the sense of all the cross represents, rather than specific reference to a cross. There is enmity between the serpent and the woman means the devil and mankind rather than meaning women have fear of physical snakes. Or ... thinking about this now, Revelation does say something about the Serpent seeking to destroy the Woman and it might have additional application there. I won't be dogmatic on that.

"It shall bruise they head" - the bruise to the head is a fatal wound. Jesus will literally destroy the devil in his time, but he will also destroy his seed in the same stroke.

Hebrews 2:14 KJV
(14) Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

"... and thou shalt bruise his heel."

This is not done without a wound. The bruise to the head is fatal, the devil won't come back after he is reduced to ashes and become no more. The bruise to the heel can be healed. Jesus was slain, but rose again.

That passage is well recognized as pertaining to Jesus and the devil. For example, pull up three different commentaries and I'm sure at least two of them will comment on this (if not also the third.) For example, Barnes, Gill, and Clarke (the first three I checked) agree on this point. Besides, if it does not refer to this, what does it refer to? It would seem rather strange to have a random prediction that one of Eve's children would step on the head of a snake sometime in the next couple years.

As for God foreseeing crucifixion.

Look at your child, how much do you love him? Imagine having millions like him, and you loved them all, but they were being deceived and they had fallen away and were lost, and you sent people to speak to them, but many didn't listen. Then your son whom is always with you and you love deeply is willing to go and says "yes father I'll go to help bring them back" and you know that by him going and showing them what you're truly like and speaking to them what you've told him to say that he would save many of them. But you also know that he will be cruelly treated by those who are wicked, and killed. But the death they put him through, doesn't really kill him. And when they do kill him, he comes back to you. And he has saved many of them who believed in him and his word, and they are reconciled to you.

Would you, knowing before hand what would happen, let him go?

 

[marhig]

I realize you are answering in stages, but I still don't understand the answer thus far. "God foresaw" the crucifixion, so he prophesied it? Do you understand the future as a fixed thing that God cannot change, or rather something that happens as influenced by its actors (including God?)

You asked, "why do you think the following verse means the cross?"



It would mean "the cross" in the sense of all the cross represents, rather than specific reference to a cross. There is enmity between the serpent and the woman means the devil and mankind rather than meaning women have fear of physical snakes. Or ... thinking about this now, Revelation does say something about the Serpent seeking to destroy the Woman and it might have additional application there. I won't be dogmatic on that.

"It shall bruise they head" - the bruise to the head is a fatal wound. Jesus will literally destroy the devil in his time, but he will also destroy his seed in the same stroke.

Hebrews 2:14 KJV
(14) Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

"... and thou shalt bruise his heel."

This is not done without a wound. The bruise to the head is fatal, the devil won't come back after he is reduced to ashes and become no more. The bruise to the heel can be healed. Jesus was slain, but rose again.

That passage is well recognized as pertaining to Jesus and the devil. For example, pull up three different commentaries and I'm sure at least two of them will comment on this (if not also the third.) For example, Barnes, Gill, and Clarke (the first three I checked) agree on this point. Besides, if it does not refer to this, what does it refer to? It would seem rather strange to have a random prediction that one of Eve's children would step on the head of a snake sometime in the next couple years.

And for Hebrews 2:14

He's not talking about natural death, but Jesus being dead to his flesh and alive in God, and because he was dead to his flesh, he was able to destroy Satan and show us how to overcome him by a new and living way. I will go over this more later with you if you want to do so.

Also I don't see the verses about Eve and the serpent like that. But I'm just off to the midwife with my daughter. She's due to have her baby anytime (God spares) so I'll be a bit busy. And get back to you when I can

 

[God's Truth]

"Jesus is God and God is Spirit, He made Himself a physical body and that is the body of Christ.

He then made the whole creation by, through, for and in Christ."

Can you show reference for this in Genesis?

Why does it have to be in Genesis?

Colossians 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

That scripture says Jesus is the firstborn over all creation, and then we learn that everything was made through him.

John 1:3 Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.

Colossians 1:16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

"His body is a Spiritual Body meaning it won't die. Jesus has a Spirit inside this Spiritual body."

Scripture supporting above claim please.

Jesus was resurrected. This scripture says it sown a natural body and it is RAISED A SPIRITUAL BODY, which is different than just saying a spirit.

1 Corinthians 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

This scripture Jesus tells the Father to glorify him in His presence with the GLORY he had before the world began.

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

John 17:24 "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

1 Peter 1:21 Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God.

This scripture says our bodies will be transformed to be like his glorious body. If Jesus has the same human body without any changes from when he was on earth before he died and rose from the dead, then how would it make sense that our bodies will be TRANSFORMED TO BE LIKE HIS GLORIOUS BODY?

Philippians 3:21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

This scripture says what we will be has NOT YET BEEN MADE KNOWN, we will be like him...

1 John 3:2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

 

[God's Truth]

As for God foreseeing crucifixion.

Look at your child, how much do you love him? Imagine having millions like him, and you loved them all, but they were being deceived and they had fallen away and were lost, and you sent people to speak to them, but many didn't listen. Then your son whom is always with you and you love deeply is willing to go and says "yes father I'll go to help bring them back" and you know that by him going and showing them what you're truly like and speaking to them what you've told him to say that he would save many of them. But you also know that he will be cruelly treated by those who are wicked, and killed. But the death they put him through, doesn't really kill him. And when they do kill him, he comes back to you. And he has saved many of them who believed in him and his word, and they are reconciled to you.

Would you, knowing before hand what would happen, let him go?

I can hardly believe you go against the shed blood on the cross which cleans the those who are being saved.

 

[marhig]

I can hardly believe you go against the shed blood on the cross which cleans the those who are being saved.

I don't, I just don't see it as you do! Jesus shed his blood, denied sin, bore he cross, and poured out his life every day of his life.

The blood that cleanses, is the life of Christ in our hearts, cleansing and helping us to cast out our devils and helping us to overcome Satan and the world by the power of the Spirit every day.

His natural blood doesn't save anyone, it's his spiritual flesh and blood that we eat and drink that saves.

John 6

Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you

Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.


He's not talking about his natural flesh and blood, it's his spiritual blood (his life) and taking it into our hearts that saves.

See this last verse

As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

The father sent Jesus, and he lived by his commandments and his word, and if we take Christ in to our hearts, then we will live by him, we will live by his teaching and by his word, his words are Spirit and they are life, and as we take his words and his life in, then his life, by the power of the Spirit, will be in us and those truly born of God will live it out and live by the will of God through Christ.

 

[MichaelCadry]

You are wrong, Michael.

You'll find out soon enough that I am right, GT. You are the one who has a stubborn heart!

May God Help You,

Michael

 

[popsthebuilder]

That's certainly one of the theories. I don't buy it, and it doesn't say they were angels.

The "giants" were powerful men in the area. The sons of God were the descendants of Seth, and the daughters of men were descendants of Cain.

Book of Enoch goes into detail on the subject.

Never thought about it like you said. Thanks.

 

[popsthebuilder]

You try to go beyond what is written, and in doing so, you nullify the word of God.

Impossible.

It is you who attempt such though it isn't possible

 

[popsthebuilder]

Why does it have to be in Genesis?

Colossians 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

That scripture says Jesus is the firstborn over all creation, and then we learn that everything was made through him.

John 1:3 Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.

Colossians 1:16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.


Jesus was resurrected. This scripture says it sown a natural body and it is RAISED A SPIRITUAL BODY, which is different than just saying a spirit.

1 Corinthians 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

This scripture Jesus tells the Father to glorify him in His presence with the GLORY he had before the world began.

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

John 17:24 "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

1 Peter 1:21 Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God.

This scripture says our bodies will be transformed to be like his glorious body. If Jesus has the same human body without any changes from when he was on earth before he died and rose from the dead, then how would it make sense that our bodies will be TRANSFORMED TO BE LIKE HIS GLORIOUS BODY?

Philippians 3:21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

This scripture says what we will be has NOT YET BEEN MADE KNOWN, we will be like him...

1 John 3:2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

Because Genesis is the creation account and you said GOD made Himself a physical body prior to creating anything else. You also said IT had to in order to create; attempting to limit the capacity of the eternal all knowing and all powerful.

So do show such with scripture as asked as opposed to beating around the bush.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Does Genesis 1 say that God was speaking to his Son? Here, let's refresh the passage:

Genesis 1:26 KJV
(26) And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

I see where God speaks, and I see where he is directing his speech to others, but I don't see where the others are specifically named. I do know that God was present and angels were present, but that we are told that God is one but the angels are many.

By the way, something to consider for those that say that "One God means many people of the same substance" - angels are also made of the same substance, yet they are referred to as plural instead of singular when there is more than one person.

Lot of misdirection without answering my question.

 

[God's Truth]

You'll find out soon enough that I am right, GT. You are the one who has a stubborn heart!

May God Help You,

Michael

You don't like it when you come to a debate group and someone doesn't agree with you so you try to demean that person. That is wrong. You are a trinitarian and that doctrine comes from the Catholics. I prove my beliefs with scripture and you try to prove your beliefs with insults. You also keep trying to scare people by telling them something bad is going to happen, yet, you have done that before and don't accept it that it makes you a false prophet. I gave you scripture proving that.

 

[God's Truth]

Because Genesis is the creation account and you said GOD made Himself a physical body prior to creating anything else. You also said IT had to in order to create; attempting to limit the capacity of the eternal all knowing and all powerful.

So do show such with scripture as asked as opposed to beating around the bush.

You deny those scriptures I gave.

You also keep slandering my Father by calling Him an 'It'.

I am not going to debate with you much longer unless you have a post which shows respect for Him. You prove you don't have truth because you did not address the scriptures I gave, you merely told untruths about God and me.