The Trinity

[Right Divider]

The official word is that no one can understand the Trinitarian doctrine.

“If you deny the Trinity you will lose your soul. If you try and explain it you will lose your mind.”

-Augustine

So Augustine is the "official" decider? :rotfl:

I don't follow Augustine; I follow God's Word.

 

[God's Truth]

It seems like you're looking for excuses instead of knowledge.

The definition of a "person" is not that difficult. A person has these attributes (not an exhaustive list):

• Consciousness
• The ability to speak and listen
• Reason
• Will

God the Father speaks to His Son and the Son speaks to His Father.
The Holy Spirit was lied to (Acts 5:3). You cannot lie to anything but a person.

There are MANY, MANY demonstrations of this throughout scripture.

Luke 22:42 (AKJV/PCE)​

(22:42) Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. ​

TWO wills defined in that verse: the Fathers and the Sons.

God is Spirit and there is only One Divine Spirit.

Since there is only ONE SPIRIT, tell us how Jesus HIMSELF lives in you. And, remember, no 'via' or 'proxy'. Jesus says that he himself will live in the saved.

Same for with the Father. The Father is God and is Spirit. There. is. only. one. Spirit.

Since there is only One Spirit, it means the Father and Son are the same one and only Holy Spirit.

 

[God's Truth]

The official word is that no one can understand the Trinitarian doctrine.

“If you deny the Trinity you will lose your soul. If you try and explain it you will lose your mind.”

-Augustine

If no one can understand it, then they surely can't defend it!

 

[God's Truth]

OK, I've got a problem with that definition above Right Divider. I'll demonstrate where confusion can enter.

If I have a dog that is 100% flesh, which is not the cat that is also 100% flesh, then I do maintain that I have a dog and a cat, and they are both flesh, but "flesh" in this sense is reduced to nothing more than substance. The definition you gave above seems rather polytheistic. I'm sure that's not what you mean to convey.

There is ONLY ONE BODY.
That body holds the only ONE SPIRIT.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called;

 

[God's Truth]

Welcome to TOL.

Love your name.

Welcome and know that EW will try her best to make you feel unwelcome,as she sees fit.

 

[God's Truth]

What????

Jesus is tempted to sin all day every day? I hope you're not referring to me here, because I've never said that!

You said you were tempted every day. Many people have said they are tempted all day every day.

If you want to state what you believe, do it now and say plainly that you are NOT tempted every day.

That will clear it up just fine, because I am NOT searching for your posts where you said you are tempted to sin every day.

Firstly, Jesus never sinned, being tempted and actually sinning are totally different. And Jesus is tempted all day every day? Who said that? I said that Satan could tempt him all day and it still wouldn't work because Jesus was too strong for him, but I never once said that he did do it! I myself have also said that he was tempted as we are, and it says this in the Bible, not only does it say that he was tempted as we are, but it actually says "in all points" as we are. So Jesus was tempted just like us. Yet he didn't sin once, and this is the important part.

You are the one who said you were tempted every day and that Jesus was tempted just as you are.

It's not that Satan tempted him, it's the fact that Jesus didn't sin ever, which shows us the power that was in him, having the full strength of the Spirit, Satan couldn't touch him and he remained unspotted by this world.

I really don't think that you realise how strong Jesus was!

What a false statement to make.
I am the one telling you that I am not tempted as you say you are, and I am a nobody. Tell me how a nobody cannot be tempted by the sins of the world every day, but I don't realize how God in the flesh is not tempted by the sins of the world every day?

You are the one who kept saying Jesus was tempted just as you are, and that you are tempted every day.

I am the one who kept telling you he was tempted IN THE DESERT and then later before being arrested, tortured, and crucified.

He could spot Satan a mile off, so no matter what Satan did, he had no hope as Jesus had power over all flesh, because God had given him the full power of the Spirit because Jesus lived by his will and wasn't interested in his own will or this world, he came to bare witness to the truth and save as many as would believe in him. The devil had no hope no matter what he did to Jesus, even scourging and crucifying him through wicked men, Jesus still didn't sin, not once, instead he said father forgive them. He was full of love, forgiveness and mercy. Satan didn't stand a chance.

So, I hope you weren't referring to me in your post? Because what you've said isn't what I have been saying!

Go back and find your own posts since your memory seems to have waned.

 

[God's Truth]

Through the Holy Spirit

No, there is no 'via' and no 'proxy'. JESUS SAYS THAT HE HIMSELF will live in the saved.

Change it up, marhig.

What you say it not in the Bible.

 

[God's Truth]

I do believe that to a point pops, but I don't be that Jesus is the father. I believe that Jesus is the Christ the son of the living God come in flesh and that he was filled with the Holy Spirit from womb and he grew in strength in God as he was growing, becoming strong even as a child. Which is the opposite to us, because as we grow sin grows and doesn't start to go until we are born of God and receive the power of the Spirit. I don't believe that the father, son and Holy Spirit are the same one being. But three separate Spirits, the father being the head and God of all, and he has set Christ Jesus at his right hand, giving him authority over all, putting Christ over everything in heaven and in earth and we have to go through Jesus Christ to come to the father, he is the way the truth and the life, and his way is the only way to follow.

DID YOU ALL HEAR THAT?

Marhig says that they are THREE SEPARATE SPIRITS.

Tell me how three separate separates are living in the saved WHEN THERE IS ONLY ONE SPIRIT?

Nowhere anywhere are we told there are three separate Spirits; and nowhere anywhere are we told the three separate Spirits live inside us via ONE OF THE DIFFERENT SPIRITS.

 

[God's Truth]

Marhig says there are three different Spirits.

Trinitarians imply that there are three different Spirits, but when they are forced to explain, they say that the Father is not a Spirit, and that Jesus is not a Spirit, but that the Holy Spirit is their Spirit by proxy.

Both Marhigs and trinitarians are wrong.

The FATHER IS SPIRIT. THE SON IS SPIRIT. The Holy Spirit is Spirit. They are all one and the SAME SPIRIT.

 

[God's Truth]

I don't believe that the father, son and Holy Spirit are the same one being. But three separate Spirits

John 10:29 My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.” 31 At this, the Jews again picked up stones to stone Him.

John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

They couldn't be snatched out of the Father's hand and they couldn't be out of Jesus'hand.

 

[God's Truth]

Just think, Marhig says Jesus gives us a different Spirit.

So when Jesus says that he will live in us, Marhig says it is by the Holy Spirit, a DIFFERENT Spirit.

Is that Spirit like Jesus, a lot like Jesus?

Same for the trinitarians, they say the same thing.

 

[God's Truth]

Then what's the point of the resurrection of the body?

Jesus is letting them know that he is coming to them in the Spirit.

That is not about the resurrection of the body.

 

[God's Truth]

How can Jesus be the Holy Spirit if the Holy spirit drove him into the wilderness?

We all have a spirit within us, it is us, and it looks like us and changes and grows as we do.

Jesus' Spirit IS the Holy Spirit of God the Father, come as a Man.

God the Father really came as a Man.

So then, we see that there are three, but the three are one and the same Spirit.

The Spirit was in him.

We all have our own spirit in us.

Jesus doesn't have another different Spirit in him. He has the One and only Spirit of God in Him.

It says in the Bible that the child Jesus waxed strong in Spirit, meaning the Holy Spirit within him grew in strength. So how is he alone that Spirit? And how is he the father when he says that the father is greater than he and that he comes from the father and goes to the father?

Because a Man's Spirit in the flesh is not greater than the Spirit of the Father in heaven.

Jesus did make it though, to the greatest place in heaven.

He also says in the book of revelation that he is set in his father's throne? So how is he the father? And he also says that those who belong to him will be set in his throne as he is set in his father's throne, so does that make the church Christ? No, that means that we are as one with Christ and the father.

God the Father is Spirit, He is invisible. All spirits are invisible; however, some spirits have been seen they are still see through, they don't have a body.

The Father is Spirit and invisible. Jesus is God the Father with a body.

And finally, read his prayer in John 17, why would he pray to the father like this, if he is the father himself? It makes no sense!

There are three, and the three are one and the same.

 

[JudgeRightly]

[MENTION=18157]marhig[/MENTION] [MENTION=15579]1Mind1Spirit[/MENTION]

Since neither of you seem to be bold enough to answer my very simple question, "Can the effect be greater than the cause," I will answer it for you.

No. The effect cannot be greater than the cause.

So, based on that:

Since you are a person, and the effect cannot be greater than the cause, would that mean that your Creator is personal?

 

[God's Truth]

Yes but I'm human, the Spirit within isn't a person, he's Spirit.

I am in no way defending JudgeRightly, but we ARE our spirit. Our flesh is made alive by our spirit. When our flesh body dies, we will live on in our spirit which looks exactly like us.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I am in no way defending JudgeRightly, but we ARE our spirit.

I'm glad you've finally come to agreement with me on this.

Our flesh is made alive by our spirit.

And this.

When our flesh body dies, we will live on in our spirit which looks exactly like us.

One minor point though, after we die (or more accurately, when we get to Heaven, we will be given new, uncorrupted bodies, we won't be floating around as uncontained spirits.

 

[God's Truth]

Only with help from His Father--

Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;


LA

So in your beliefs, did a man become God?

How do you think you will be taken seriously if you keep changing your beliefs but say you didn't?

 

[God's Truth]

I'm glad you've finally come to agreement with me on this.



And this.


One minor point though, after we die (or more accurately, when we get to Heaven, we will be given new, uncorrupted bodies, we won't be floating around as uncontained spirits.

That last part is not in the Bible anywhere. The only time we get a new physical body is at the resurrection of our bodies.

How do you ever get that we float around contaminated if we have been washed clean and conformed our spirits to be like his?

 

[God's Truth]

No.

The Holy Spirit conceived Jesus.

Jesus was not the Father in a human body.

You said 'no' to the scripture THAT PLAINLY SAYS Jesus is the Spirit.

Not wise to go against what is written.

Jesus is a full man in His own right made like all men--

Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

LA

That scripture says Jesus was made like sinful flesh. That scripture proves you wrong, for if Jesus is not God and did not come from heaven, as you say, then what does it mean to be made like sinful flesh? You were NOT made LIKE sinful flesh, you ARE sinful flesh. Jesus is God the Father come from heaven and made like sinful flesh.

That is what the scripture says. Not only that, you go against the scriptures that say Jesus CAME FROM HEAVEN.

 

[JudgeRightly]

That last part is not in the Bible anywhere. The only time we get a new physical body is at the resurrection of our bodies.

For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven,if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked.For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life.Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.For we walk by faith, not by sight.We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. - 2 Corinthians 5:1-8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Corinthians5:1-8&version=NKJV

How do you ever get that we float around contaminated if we have been washed clean and conformed our spirits to be like his?

I think you misread what I said. I said "uncontained," not "[un]contaminated." Please read more carefully.