The Trinity

The Trinity


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Rosenritter

New member
So your mind goes that way too? Who would defend so a thing?

GT, seriously, calm down. I was reading posts and wondering why you were yelling, and reading backwards, the only source reference I found was in your own post. I know what you meant, and I told you that it's obvious what you meant. What is going on here is that you are being overly willing to fight. I didn't see anyone accusing you, but what I do see is that you are accusing others of accusing you.
 

God's Truth

New member
GT, seriously, calm down. I was reading posts and wondering why you were yelling, and reading backwards, the only source reference I found was in your own post. I know what you meant, and I told you that it's obvious what you meant. What is going on here is that you are being overly willing to fight. I didn't see anyone accusing you, but what I do see is that you are accusing others of accusing you.

Don't tell me to calm down as if I am guilty of anything you claim. I couldn't care any less what you think of me so keep it to yourself.
 

Rosenritter

New member
What I am saying is that God is the only one who can create anything, but he cannot create another perfect being. Everything that exists only does so because God created and sustains it with his very existence. Our existence is contingent upon his, which means that our contingent existence is analogous with his perfect existence; therefore our existence must be encompassed by his. This can be seen through his omnipresence. God exist at every point in time, in every place in time, all at the same time. He encompasses everything. The logic trap only exists for the one who is trying to prove that there could be more than one perfect being.

I commend you for this, many people try to use this passage to prove the "more than one perfect being stance". I am glad to see that you actually pay attention to the context of the passage. I does indeed mean perfect in love, and that is because of the contextual parameters set within the passage. When we talk about the perfection of God, we set the parameters of perfect using his character, and nature. Perhaps it would be easier to comprehend by stating that the word "perfect" could be removed and replaced with the full meaning of the word "eternal". Eternal does not only mean always was, always is, and always will be; in fact, "eternal," in the fullest sense of the word, encompasses every attribute that God is. This means that omniscience, omnipresence, omnipotence, immutability, and perfection are all part of what it is to be eternal.

Therefore, the concept that anyone other than God can ever be eternal is just plain false. If something has a beginning, it can never be or become eternal. It can put on immortality, but it cannot become eternal. This is the problem with most Trinitarian doctrines, and also any doctrine that teaches that we will somehow be granted either eternal life or eternal punishment. If we could obtain eternal life, we would become God. But hey, that is the end goal of most humanistic man made doctrines, is it not?

If we are talking philosophically, I see no reason why there could not be two or three or five or fifty-nine beings that were eternal, always was, always will be, without creating each other. How, you ask? I can't even explain how One God has always been there and always will be, so the explanation of each runs into the same problem of our limited understanding.

I don't think that "only One" is an innate exclusion within the meaning of the word eternal. I believe there is one eternal God, who always was and always will be, but not because "one" is required by the word. Rather, there's One God because that's just the way it is.
 
I do not go by anything that is not proven in the written Word. Would you mind giving the scripture that says what you did about breathing?

It is an illustration that shows the relationship between faith and good works and obedience... You need to learn how to read what is written instead of making personal inferences that are not present in the original context of what is written.



You just contradicted yourself.

Just believe what is plainly written. James says clearly that FAITH ALONE IS DEAD and it CANNOT save ANYONE.

Please explain to me how I just contradicted myself? James says clearly that faith alone is dead, because saving faith will ALWAYS PRODUCE good works and obedience. What you fail to see is that good works and obedience originate from faith, and faith originates from the life given to us through the finished work of Jesus Christ.

People are so afraid to say we have to obey that they twist up all the scriptures and speak nonsense. They do not even see what is written. They do not even have common sense.

There is not one passage in the Bible that you can give that says we HAVE TO OBEY to be saved. However, if you look and read carefully, you will find many passages that show that obedience will always be the result of salvation and the hope that comes as we anxiously await the return of our Savior.

That dead faith that you have fallen for, it is not the most important faith ever known, it is not saving faith, it is dead.

My faith is not dead, the faith that I have in the finished work of Jesus Christ compels me to obey and act out of love. God has given me life, and that life has produced a faith that produces obedience in love.

The words you speak are not in love, they are spoken in contempt of others who do not believe as you do. You accuse the bretheren and and seek to condemn them instead of building them up in the knowledge, love, and wisdom of our Lord and Savior. The fruit you show us may have an appealing look to some on the outside, but we can see that it is from a rotten tree.
 

God's Truth

New member

This back and forth argument has gone on for weeks without any sign of resolution.
Would it be too much to ask for the parties to attempt to understand the other?
That is how debate goes. Why are you in a debate group if you don't want to debate? I think we all had enough of your advice.
1 Timothy 1:8-9 KJV
(8) But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
(9) Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

Presumably everyone here wants to serve God. God does not despise obedience, and if we love God we will do our best to be obedient. If you understand the nature of grace, or the law of love, does that not also extend into "Love your Neighbor" and the like?

You cannot get saved without obeying and you cannot stay saved without obeying. If anyone does sin they must obey and repent.
 

popsthebuilder

New member
Only the physical body of the Lord Jesus Christ died.


Why do you make things up about what people say and what the Bible says?
The same can be derived from the unbiased reading of the Quran.

Just pointing it out since some are confused on the matter.

It has nothing to do with you or gt.

Sent from my Z983 using Tapatalk
 

popsthebuilder

New member
I did not ask you an accusatory question.
I have not accused you, gt, of anything.

Now, you've made me to wonder.
There is so much pain in your responses as I have NOT, I repeat, I have NOT accused you of anything.
That's odd.... I thought you said to obey was not to believe and too against the will of Christ. Such a statement can indeed be seen as accusation towards one who believes differently from you.

Just saying, not trying to meddle in your business.

Sent from my Z983 using Tapatalk
 

God's Truth

New member
It is an illustration that shows the relationship between faith and good works and obedience... You need to learn how to read what is written instead of making personal inferences that are not present in the original context of what is written.
Prove it that I did that. You are the one who did that.
Please explain to me how I just contradicted myself? James says clearly that faith alone is dead, because saving faith will ALWAYS PRODUCE good works and obedience.
That is not what James says, you changed it.
There are many people who believe and do not obey.
What you fail to see is that good works and obedience originate from faith, and faith originates from the life given to us through the finished work of Jesus Christ.
Why would you speak against my preaching obedience to Christ?
There is not one passage in the Bible that you can give that says we HAVE TO OBEY to be saved. However, if you look and read carefully, you will find many passages that show that obedience will always be the result of salvation and the hope that comes as we anxiously await the return of our Savior.
No such thing.
There are many scriptures that say we have to obey to have salvation.
.
My faith is not dead, the faith that I have in the finished work of Jesus Christ compels me to obey and act out of love. God has given me life, and that life has produced a faith that produces obedience in love.
If you had faith alone without right action then your faith was dead, according to the written Word of God.

The words you speak are not in love, they are spoken in contempt of others who do not believe as you do.
Preaching obedience is not equivalent to hate. You just say such awful things to me because it is you who goes against me for believing differently than you.

You accuse the bretheren and and seek to condemn them instead of building them up in the knowledge, love, and wisdom of our Lord and Savior. The fruit you show us may have an appealing look to some on the outside, but we can see that it is from a rotten tree.
I have said nothing like that to anyone. You have so judged yourself.

Matthew 7:2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
 

JudgeRightly

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I believe in looking only to the words of Christ and not men who are not even in the Bible.
Now be careful not to make up things about me.

The men who translated the Bible into English were not in the Bible, should we ignore what they say as well?

I do not go by anything that is not proven in the written Word. Would you mind giving the scripture that says what you did about breathing?

You just contradicted yourself.

Just believe what is plainly written. James says clearly that FAITH ALONE IS DEAD and it CANNOT save ANYONE.

James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad: Greetings. - James 1:1 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James1:1&version=NKJV

GT, as far as I'm aware, you do not fall within the category of "the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad" (aka the diaspora).

People are so afraid to say we have to obey that they twist up all the scriptures and speak nonsense. They do not even see what is written. They do not even have common sense.

That dead faith that you have fallen for, it is not the most important faith ever known, it is not saving faith, it is dead.

Says the legalist.
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
That is how debate goes. Why are you in a debate group if you don't want to debate? I think we all had enough of your advice.


You cannot get saved without obeying and you cannot stay saved without obeying. If anyone does sin they must obey and repent.

This is impossible for the totally depraved sinner to accomplish.

And all mankind is so depraved . .

Thus the need for the Saviour.

If what you teach was really true, and sinners could repent and obey, then the Son of God need not have incarnated, and Jesus' death was unnecessary.

You are denying the gospel of the cross, GT! You are denying the necessity of God's saving grace!
 

God's Truth

New member
The men who translated the Bible into English were not in the Bible, should we ignore what they say as well?



James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad: Greetings. - James 1:1 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James1:1&version=NKJV

GT, as far as I'm aware, you do not fall within the category of "the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad" (aka the diaspora).

Are you a Corinthian, or maybe an Ephesian? Timothy, or Titus? A Galatian?
 

God's Truth

New member
This is impossible for the totally depraved sinner to accomplish.
Not all are totally depraved.

And all mankind is so depraved . .

That is made up.

Thus the need for the Saviour.

That is not why we need a Savior.

If what you teach was really true, and sinners could repent and obey, then the Son of God need not have incarnated, and Jesus' death was unnecessary.

Nonsense.
You are denying the gospel of the cross, GT! You are denying the necessity of God's saving grace!
That is what you are doing.

You hinder people who want to be saved and know God.

Jesus says believe and obey.

You say, "No, I cannot, save me first".

Jesus says he came as Savior for the whole world.

You say, "No, only for the people you save".
 

Rosenritter

New member
I am a gentile, because I am not of the tribes of Israel.

GT, could you respond to the other points I made in my previous post?

The scattered twelve tribes are in the same boat and judged by the same measure as the Gentiles. What does it say? If ye are in Christ, then ye are Abraham's seed? That there is neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female, bond or free? A member of a scattered tribe has the same requirements and law as anyone else.
 
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Nihilo

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