The Trinity

[KingdomRose]

More interesting quotes.



This thread also requires a big dose of humility, from all involved including myself:



With that said and freely admitted, what God has chosen to show us of Himself entails plurality.

Only "plurality" of magnificence or glory. He has NEVER shown us that He is more than one Person.

He is Jehovah, the Most High. (Psalm 83:18, KJV) He is the One to whom Jesus prayed. He is the One that Jesus called "the only true God." (John 17:3) If Jesus said this TO God, how could Jesus BE God?

 

[KingdomRose]

I asked you if you belong to the church, your testimony appears to be no

You haven't read my post where I said that yes, I have been a baptized JW for over 40 years.

 

[patrick jane]

You haven't read my post where I said that yes, I have been a baptized JW for over 40 years.

I'm sorry :devil:

 

[Bright Raven]

Only "plurality" of magnificence or glory. He has NEVER shown us that He is more than one Person.

He is Jehovah, the Most High. (Psalm 83:18, KJV) He is the One to whom Jesus prayed. He is the One that Jesus called "the only true God." (John 17:3) If Jesus said this TO God, how could Jesus BE God?

God is three in one.

1 John 5:7 King James Version (KJV)

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

 

[KingdomRose]

You sure spend a lot of energy on something that you don't even believe exists....

I think it's important to understand God in the way that He deserves. He does not deserve to be branded a triune God. He is One, and there is no other God. The trinity says that there are THREE Gods that make up God. That isn't fair, when Jehovah plainly says throughout the Bible that He is God. Jesus proclaims Jehovah as "the only true God." (John 17:3) I can't go along with the nonsense that God is three Gods in one. And I think it's reasonable to speak out against it.

 

[Bright Raven]

I think it's important to understand God in the way that He deserves. He does not deserve to be branded a triune God. He is One, and there is no other God. The trinity says that there are THREE Gods that make up God. That isn't fair, when Jehovah plainly says throughout the Bible that He is God. Jesus proclaims Jehovah as "the only true God." (John 17:3) I can't go along with the nonsense that God is three Gods in one. And I think it's reasonable to speak out against it.

Wrong!

1 John 5:7 King James Version (KJV)

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

 

[KingdomRose]

Of course the Trinity is taught in the Bible, as the Bible says to baptize in the name of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, thus forming a threesome of "Trinity."

More interesting for debate however is whether the Torah actually teaches a "trinity" of some kind as well in a divine sense. When "God" showed up to visit Abraham, he did so in the form of three angelic/divine beings. Now how could "God" show up in the form of three beings, if God is "one"? How could God be called "Elohim" (plural) in the Torah if God is called "one"? The Christian answer is that God is one united being composed of three beings.

There is also a school of thought that this Christian theory fits into- that the ancient Hebrews were really Trinitarians (or at least believed in a composite God of some kind) and that they did not believe in a "monogenic God". I think that the Hindus in some cases may also claim to believe that their deities also compose a whole God, Brahman.

That baptism in the name of Father, Son and H.S. shows that they are a Trinity is LAME. How does it show that they are EQUAL? It doesn't!

"God" showed up to visit Abraham in the guise of three ANGELS who REPRESENTED God. Your idea that three angels showing up to visit Abraham proves a Trinity is a whole lot of OPINION. Nothing more.

The "school of thought" that the Jews thought of God as more than one Being, at one time, is weak. What school of thought is this? I've never heard of it.

There is NO clear, decisive explanation of a Trinity anywhere in the Bible. Trinitarians come out with a lot of SPECULATION and ASSUMPTION that cannot be solidly backed up.

 

[Bright Raven]

That baptism in the name of Father, Son and H.S. shows that they are a Trinity is LAME. How does it show that they are EQUAL? It doesn't!

"God" showed up to visit Abraham in the guise of three ANGELS who REPRESENTED God. Your idea that three angels showing up to visit Abraham proves a Trinity is a whole lot of OPINION. Nothing more.

The "school of thought" that the Jews thought of God as more than one Being, at one time, is weak. What school of thought is this? I've never heard of it.

There is NO clear, decisive explanation of a Trinity anywhere in the Bible. Trinitarians come out with a lot of SPECULATION and ASSUMPTION that cannot be solidly backed up.

1 John 5:7 King James Version (KJV)

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

No answer?

 

[KingdomRose]

So of all the anti-trinitarians now on this thread, as far as I can see only two have even acknowledged the Trinity challenge. G.O. refused to deal with the relevant Scriptures. The JW gave it a bit more of a try but also failed.

Who's next?

Tell me how I "failed."

 

[Bright Raven]

Tell me how I "failed."

You fail to deal with;

1 John 5:7 King James Version (KJV)

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

 

[KingdomRose]

The vast majority disagrees with you. It really is just that simple.

Jesus indicated that the majority would be wrong. He said that FEW would be on the road to life. (Matthew 7:14)

:chuckle:

 

[KingdomRose]

God is three in one.

1 John 5:7 King James Version (KJV)

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

I guess you don't know much about the acceptable manuscripts. That sentence is not included in many versions because it is known to be absent from the earliest manuscripts.

I John 5:7 mentions ONLY the water, spirit and blood. Are you going to ADD your bias to that verse and make it into something it isn't?

 

[Bright Raven]

I guess you don't know much about the acceptable manuscripts. That sentence is not included in many versions because it is known to be absent from the earliest manuscripts.

I John 5:7 mentions ONLY the water, spirit and blood. Are you going to ADD your bias to that verse and make it into something it isn't?

The Canon of scripture was closed in 397 AD. What does that tell you?

Oh then I guess you do not accept the KJV as a valid translation.

 

[patrick jane]

I John 5:7 mentions ONLY the water, spirit and blood. Are you going to ADD your bias to that verse and make it into something it isn't?

Wrong. It says the Father, Word (Christ), Holy Spirit.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I think it's important to understand God in the way that He deserves. He does not deserve to be branded a triune God. He is One, and there is no other God. The trinity says that there are THREE Gods that make up God. That isn't fair, when Jehovah plainly says throughout the Bible that He is God. Jesus proclaims Jehovah as "the only true God." (John 17:3) I can't go along with the nonsense that God is three Gods in one. And I think it's reasonable to speak out against it.

Sorry KR but you're a member of a cult. (JWs) Whatever you have
to say must be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[KingdomRose]

The Canon of scripture was closed in 397 AD. What does that tell you?

Oh then I guess you do not accept the KJV as a valid translation.

The KJV has its faults. It is considered one of the least accurate translations by a majority of scholars.

 

[KingdomRose]

Wrong. It says the Father, Word (Christ), Holy Spirit.

Wrong. The New American Standard Bible says: "For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement." (I John 5: 7,8)

The ms you quote is a very LATE ms. The earlier ones do not have those words in them.

:yawn:

 

[Bright Raven]

Wrong. The New American Standard Bible says: "For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement." (I John 5: 7,8)

The ms you quote is a very LATE ms. The earlier ones do not have those words in them.

:yawn:

Ummm. You're manuscript of the NASB is later than the KJV.

 

[KingdomRose]

Such new thinking as the Trinity would have required the most careful and repeated explanation for men & women of the early Church, who had been steeped from birth in the belief that God was only one Person. It is undeniable that the idea of a sole, unique God was the most sacred tenet of Israel's national heritage. Their cardinal belief in one God could not have been quickly or easily dispelled.

In fact, belief in a trinitarian God would have been the most revolutionary and explosive concept ever to have rocked the 1st-century Church. Yet....of that revolution the New Testament gives us not one hint. Even so, there has been an on-going debate for 2,000 years. Now, wouldn't you say that any doctrine which has caused such hostility among professed believers in Christ deserves careful analysis?

I wouldn't challenge anyone's sincerity, however, sincerity does not make a belief true. The power of tradition is not to be underestimated. It is a valid thought that this new concept of God, as a trinity, emerged under the influence of Greek philosophy....which got stuck on top of the original faith that God is One.

Almost without exception, the N.T. means THE FATHER when it says "God." Maybe the Father is ignored today, but He wasn't in the days of the Apostles.

I don't get why people say that Jesus must be "either mad, bad or God." It is sufficient, and absolutely Biblical, to believe that he is the Messiah, the Son of God.

What did Jesus mean when he said, as he addressed the Father: "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You sent"? (John 17:3)

 

[popsthebuilder]

Only "plurality" of magnificence or glory. He has NEVER shown us that He is more than one Person.

He is Jehovah, the Most High. (Psalm 83:18, KJV) He is the One to whom Jesus prayed. He is the One that Jesus called "the only true God." (John 17:3) If Jesus said this TO God, how could Jesus BE God?

He also cried out to Elohim, asking why he had been forsaken.

Although slightly off topic, I find that many have a huge blockade up in front of their perception, making it hard for them to accept that the different names all refer to the One Creator GOD. At least in all Abrahamic religions.