The Trinity

[JudgeRightly]

Circumcision did not mean anything anymore.

Why do you think that Paul was prosecuted?

Also, circumcision is another word for the Law. Tell me, GT, are Christians supposed to circumcise? Or no?

 

[God's Truth]

Also, circumcision is another word for the Law. Tell me, GT, are Christians supposed to circumcise? Or no?

There was an old law, and now there is a new law.

No Jew is to get circumcised anymore, it means nothing.

No Christians is to get circumcised either.

 

[God's Truth]

It didn't mean anything? Tell that to the Jews.

They reject the truth. Those who reject Jesus are cut off from God.

Also, prosecution? That seems to me to be an indicator of doctrinal tension.

Cut off Jews prosecuted Paul

Do you really think that Christian Jews had Paul beat and put in jail, fed to the lions, and eventually later killed?

 

[JudgeRightly]

They reject the truth. Those who reject Jesus are cut off from God.

The Jews follow the law, no? What did Jesus teach? The law.

Of course they rejected Him. That's not what I'm talking about. Their beliefs were that they had to follow the law. And they would be correct. The Jews are under the covenant of law.

Cut off Jews prosecuted Paul

Do you really think that Christian Jews had Paul beat and put in jail, fed to the lions, and eventually later killed?

Back to my point, doctrinal tensions. Do Christians have to circumcise? Or not?

 

[God's Truth]

The Jews follow the law, no?

No, Jesus taught the new law, then he died on the cross for the new law.

What did Jesus teach? The law.

Of course they rejected Him. That's not what I'm talking about. Their beliefs were that they had to follow the law. And they would be correct. The Jews are under the covenant of law.

You do not know the truth.

The Jews who did not have faith were cut off from God and bound over to the same place as the Gentiles.

Back to my point, doctrinal tensions. Do Christians have to circumcise? Or not?

I already answered you.

What did I say?

No Jew and no Christians are to get circumcised in the flesh.

 

[meshak]

It didn't mean anything? Tell that to the Jews.

Also, prosecution? That seems to me to be an indicator of doctrinal tension.

I think she meant persecution.

 

[meshak]

The Jews follow the law, no? What did Jesus teach? The law.

It is His law: love God and Love your neighbor as yourself.

The law Paul is talking about is ceremonial law like circumcision.

Back to my point, doctrinal tensions. Do Christians have to circumcise? Or not?

read the above.

May God bless you.

 

[JudgeRightly]

It is His law: love God and Love your neighbor as yourself.

The law Paul is talking about is ceremonial law like circumcision.



read the above.

May God bless you.

Are Christians under the Law of Moses? Or are they under the Grace of God? In other words, do they need to do anything to be accepted by Him? (Christians, not unbelievers)

 

[JudgeRightly]

No, Jesus taught the new law, then he died on the cross for the new law.

What is this "new law" you're talking about? There is only Law and Grace.

You do not know the truth.

The Jews who did not have faith were cut off from God and bound over to the same place as the Gentiles.

You seem to have the right idea...

Why were the Jews cut off? And when? Before, during, or after Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection? (If after, how long after?)

I already answered you.

What did I say?

No Jew and no Christians are to get circumcised in the flesh.

So you're saying that Jesus abolished that law?

Does "I did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it" not mean anything to you?

 

[TulipBee]

 

[God's Truth]

That is right! So then, do you know that is not trinitarian doctrine?

 

[God's Truth]

I think she meant persecution.

I meant prosecution. That means they took Paul to court on what they thought were legal basis. Prosecution means going against someone legally.

Paul was arrested and prosecuted.

 

[God's Truth]

It is His law: love God and Love your neighbor as yourself.

The law Paul is talking about is ceremonial law like circumcision.



read the above.

May God bless you.

They cannot see that for over 1,600 years the purification/ceremonial laws were how one was approved of and how one could clean themselves to come near to God in the temple.
They erroneously think Paul was saying faith and no obey anything.
That is insanity to teach anyone should be penalized for obeying God!
They do not understand that Jesus is the Lamb, and that is symbolic of the lamb that used to clean and protect them.

 

[God's Truth]

Are Christians under the Law of Moses? Or are they under the Grace of God? In other words, do they need to do anything to be accepted by Him? (Christians, not unbelievers)

Of course Christians have to do something.

You were taught that no one has to do anything but believe, but you were taught that by people not knowing the truth who were ensnared by the devil.

Think about it more carefully. Who but the devil would preach there is euphoria in not obeying anything?

That is like a dead person doing nothing.

That faith is dead like a dead person.

Our faith must be alive just as the scriptures say.

God who knew exactly what would be in the Bible would not leave us with confusion and lies, unless of course you do not believe what is plainly written.

 

[God's Truth]

What is this "new law" you're talking about? There is only Law and Grace.

There was an old law and a new law.
The new law is the law of Christ, and it is the law that requires faith.

You seem to have the right idea...

I do have it right. Just don’t get defensive and give what I say a chance.

Why were the Jews cut off?

God cut off the Jews who did not have faith in Him.

Romans 11:20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble.

The law was not based on faith.


Galatians 3:12 The law is not based on faith;

God knowing exactly when Jesus would come to earth, He cut off all faithless Jews and hardened them so that they could NOT hear Jesus and so be saved. God wanted only those who belonged to Him by faith to have to now go through Jesus to remain His, God’s.

They were God’s and God gave them to Jesus.


John 17:6 "I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.



Luke 19:42 and said, "If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace--but now it is hidden from your eyes.
Luke 8:10
He said, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, "'though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.'

John 12:40
"He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn--and I would heal them."

Romans 11:8
as it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that could not see and ears that could not hear, to this very day."
Matthew 13:14
In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: "'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

Mark 4:12 so that, "'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'"

Mark 8:17And Jesus, aware of this, said to them, "Why do you discuss the fact that you have no bread? Do you not yet see or understand? Do you have a hardened heart? 18"HAVING EYES, DO YOU NOT SEE? AND HAVING EARS, DO YOU NOT HEAR? And do you not remember,

And when? Before, during, or after Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection? (If after, how long after?)

As you can see by the scriptures, God cut off and hardened Jews He did not approve of and He did that by the time Jesus preached his ministry on earth.

Jesus came first for the lost sheep of Israel. They are the Jews who already belonged to God when he came

So you're saying that Jesus abolished that law?

Does "I did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it" not mean anything to you?

PAUL says that the law is obsolete.

Jesus didn’t come to just do away with the law---HE FULFILLED IT FIRST.

Good questions that you asked me.

Don’t turn away from the truth.

Be ready to give up all the false things you have ever been taught.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Of course Christians have to do something.

So we have to follow the Law?

You were taught that no one has to do anything but believe, but you were taught that by people not knowing the truth who were ensnared by the devil.

Then Jesus was lying when he said to the criminal who was on the cross next to him, who was sorry for his sins and had faith and had no works, "Today you will be with me in paradise"?

Think about it more carefully. Who but the devil would preach there is euphoria in not obeying anything?

I think you have it backwards. The law (works) is the strength of sin.

*For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. - Romans 6:14 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans6:14&version=NKJV

That is like a dead person doing nothing.

So Christians (who have repented of their sins) are dead to God? Tell me, GT, how do you get that out of the Bible?

That faith is dead like a dead person.

Again, where in the Bible does it say that people who have faith in God are dead to God?

Our faith must be alive just as the scriptures say.

The Bible says two different things, depending on where you look. You don't seem to be aware of that crucial fact.

In the Gospels, God says that you must have works to get to heaven. In fact, you cannot find the word "grace" in the four gospels. It's not there.

However, in the rest of the New Testament, You cannot find anything BUT grace being taught (except in Revelation, because it's dealing with Israel and the rest of the world).

God who knew exactly what would be in the Bible

A discussion for another time and another thread about God knowing the future. Oh wait. There's already a thread on that. A debate even, in the coliseum on this forum.

would not leave us with confusion and lies, unless of course you do not believe what is plainly written.

The Bible is as plain as can be, when you know what it actually says. Do you?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Delete

 

[God's Truth]

So we have to follow the Law?

I have been telling you that there is a new law. It is what the scriptures say.

Then Jesus was lying when he said to the criminal who was on the cross next to him, who was sorry for his sins and had faith and had no works, "Today you will be with me in paradise"?

You go against obeying Jesus so you do not even see it when someone does obey.
The thief on the cross obeyed in many ways that the Bible says we have to do to be saved.
The thief on the cross humbled himself; he admitted his sins; he confessed them; he feared God; he acknowledged Jesus before others, and he called on Jesus.

Those are works those are doing what Jesus SAYS TO DO to be saved.

Would you like to talk about that more and would you like the scriptures?

I think you have it backwards. The law (works) is the strength of sin.

Not for all people, only for people who did not have faith, for the law was not based on faith. You have it backwards and worse.

*For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. - Romans 6:14http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...4&version=NKJV

Why do you ignore the scriptures that say there is a new law?
Even Paul says that he is under it.
It is the law that is in us and that we live through.

So Christians (who have repented of their sins) are dead to God? Tell me, GT, how do you get that out of the Bible?

You have been going against me for saying we have to repent of our sins to be saved.

Are you delusional?

How sneaky and crafty of you.

But the Bible says the crafty will be caught in their craftiness.

I have been saying we have to repent of sins to be saved and you have been preaching faith alone.

Again, where in the Bible does it say that people who have faith in God are dead to God?

I can see that you will not be led to the truth, at least not now.

You ask a question and I have told you MANY times that faith alone without obedience is dead.

See James 2:17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.


Are you going to try to say this whole time you were not going against me for saying we have to obey to be saved?

The Bible says two different things, depending on where you look. You don't seem to be aware of that crucial fact.

In the Gospels, God says that you must have works to get to heaven. In fact, you cannot find the word "grace" in the four gospels. It's not there.

You are a speaker of lies, for Jesus CAME WITH GRACE.

John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 1:17 For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

However, in the rest of the New Testament, You cannot find anything BUT grace being taught (except in Revelation, because it's dealing with Israel and the rest of the world).

A discussion for another time and another thread about God knowing the future. Oh wait. There's already a thread on that. A debate even, in the coliseum on this forum.

The Bible is as plain as can be, when you know what it actually says. Do you?

I see you have hardened your heart. It is no fault of mine.

For now, you will not be lead into repentance because you are defensive.

2 Timothy 2:25 Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,

I hope that one day soon you repent of your false doctrines.

 

[JudgeRightly]

There was an old law and a new law.
The new law is the law of Christ, and it is the law that requires faith.

What verse does God institute this "new law" in?

I do have it right. Just don’t get defensive and give what I say a chance.

God cut off the Jews who did not have faith in Him.

This you DO have wrong.

God cut off the Jews because they were persecuting the Christians (Today we would call them Messianic Jews). Saul (who would later become Paul) was the leader of this movement.

Romans 11:20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble.

The law was not based on faith.

Correct, so then why, where the law is preached in the Bible, is there never any mention of faith for this "new law" you seem to think exists, saying "it is the law that requires faith"?

Galatians 3:12 The law is not based on faith;

God knowing exactly when Jesus would come to earth, He cut off all faithless Jews and hardened them so that they could NOT hear Jesus and so be saved. God wanted only those who belonged to Him by faith to have to now go through Jesus to remain His, God’s.

They were God’s and God gave them to Jesus.

John 17:6 "I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.

Luke 19:42 and said, "If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace--but now it is hidden from your eyes.
Luke 8:10
He said, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, "'though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.'

John 12:40
"He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn--and I would heal them."

Romans 11:8
as it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that could not see and ears that could not hear, to this very day."
Matthew 13:14
In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: "'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

Mark 4:12 so that, "'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'"

Mark 8:17And Jesus, aware of this, said to them, "Why do you discuss the fact that you have no bread? Do you not yet see or understand? Do you have a hardened heart? 18"HAVING EYES, DO YOU NOT SEE? AND HAVING EARS, DO YOU NOT HEAR? And do you not remember,

See above.

As you can see by the scriptures, God cut off and hardened Jews He did not approve of and He did that by the time Jesus preached his ministry on earth.

I asked "When did God cut off the Jews/Nation of Israel for their unbelief?" That does not answer my question. Do you know the answer?

Jesus came first for the lost sheep of Israel. They are the Jews who already belonged to God when he came.

On this we agree.

PAUL says that the law is obsolete.

No, he doesn't. Where did you get that idea? Please provide the scripture where he says that.

Jesus didn’t come to just do away with the law---HE FULFILLED IT FIRST.

Again, what part of Jesus saying:

Spoiler

*“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. *For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. *Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. *For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. - Matthew 5:17-20 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew5:17-20&version=NKJV

do you not get? The Law is still in effect. There's no "new law." Only the law that already existed.

Good questions that you asked me.

Don’t turn away from the truth.

Be ready to give up all the false things you have ever been taught.

Practice what you preach.

 

[God's Truth]

What verse does God institute this "new law" in?

This you DO have wrong.

God cut off the Jews because they were persecuting the Christians (Today we would call them Messianic Jews). Saul (who would later become Paul) was the leader of this movement.

Correct, so then why, where the law is preached in the Bible, is there never any mention of faith for this "new law" you seem to think exists, saying "it is the law that requires faith"?


See above.


I asked "When did God cut off the Jews/Nation of Israel for their unbelief?" That does not answer my question. Do you know the answer?

No, he doesn't. Where did you get that idea? Please provide the scripture where he says that.


Again, what part of Jesus saying:

*“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. *For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. *Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. *For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. - Matthew 5:17-20
do you not get? The Law is still in effect. There's no "new law." Only the law that already existed.

Practice what you preach.

I practice what I preach. I as Paul do not want to be disqualified as I preach to others. I am not a hypocrite.

I explained it to you carefully.

The old law is obsolete.
Jesus fulfilled it.

Hebrews 8:13 By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.


Hebrews 7:22 Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.

Hebrews 8:6 Now, however, Jesus has received a far superior ministry, just as the covenant He mediates is superior and is founded on better promises.



You are defensive, just look at your post and what you wrote and how you wrote.

There is a new law.

Jesus came to teach us the new law, and then he died and shed his blood on the cross for the new covenant, the new law.
True believers uphold the law. See Romans 3:31.

We are not without a law.

We are no longer UNDER the law; we have the law written on our hearts and minds, see Hebrews 10:16.

There was a change to that old law, see Hebrews 7:12.

That changed old law is our new law.

All those who are saved have to obey the law, the new law, and the new law is in the New Covenant.

The new law is the law of the Spirit; see Romans 8:2, the perfect law James 1:25.

It is the law that gives freedom, see James 2:12.

It is the LAW that requires faith, see Romans 3:27.

It is the law of Christ; see 1 Corinthians 9:21, and Galatians 6:2.