In Hebrew, Jesus Is God -
The Trinity
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
keypurr
Well-known member
We who are anti-Trins are so for reasons we find to be truth in the scriptures. Why do you limit yourself to just the Greek. You have the ability to explore deeper. Your not old enough to stop learning Lon. I think the Greek has misled a lot of folks to believe in something that is not there. Is it all bad, no, but it must be checked and proven to blend with the content. No translations perfect,that is the problem.
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keypurr
Well-known member
Show me.
My Aramaic English New Testament disagrees with you.
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Jesus is God
ישוע הוא אלוהים
keypurr
Well-known member
Yeshua, Jesus Christ. ... the plethora of Hebrew Names and Titles for God the Son -
achduke
Active member
KJV Searches
"God the Son" 0 results
"God Son" 0 results
"Son of God" 46 results found.
Looks like God the Son is not in the KJV.
KingdomRose
New member
Oh? Where is that in the Scriptures? I haven't run across it.
KingdomRose
New member
Oh please. Jesus never said or even hinted that he was God or "I Am." It seems that you and others don't go to any lengths at ALL to find the truth!
6days
New member
Its easy to look for precise wording that isn't in scripture, isn't it?
However its also easy to look through KJV scripture finding phrases like...
"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever"
Do you believe Jesus had a body and spirit?
Do you believe the preincarnate Christ had a body and spirit?
If, as you claim, Christ confiscated Jesus' body what happened to Jesus' spirit?
John 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit."
Do you believe Jesus was born of the Spirit?
KingdomRose
New member
Though I don't agree with Keypurr on everything he says, he's more correct than you are about basic teachings, like Jesus being God's SON and not God.
Jesus is NOT referred to as "Alpha & Omega" in Revelation. It is the Father, YHWH, Jesus' God (Rev.3:12), who is referred to in Rev.22:13.
It is evident that a number of persons are represented as speaking in this chapter: verses 8 & 9 show that the angel spoke to John; verse 16 obviously refers to Jesus; the first part of verse 17 refers to "the spirit & the bride"; and the one speaking in the last part of verse 20 is John himself. "The Alpha & Omega" of verses 12-15 can reasonably be said to be in reference to the same one who is referred to in two other occurrences---the Father, Jehovah. Let's look at those two verses.
First it must be said that the rendering of Revelation 1:11 in the KJV does not receive support from some of the oldest Greek manuscripts (Alexandrine, Sinaitic, Codex Ephraemi, etc.) and is omitted in many modern translations.
So there is Revelation 1:8 to consider. Many commentators apply this to Christ, but a more careful examination will lead us to the conclusion that the reference is to Jehovah, the Father (of us and of Christ; see John 20:17). It is ASSUMED, by those that believe Jesus is God, that this verse refers to Christ, but there is no basis for that. The "Almighty" is always in reference to YHWH, Jehovah, throughout the Bible. Barnes' Notes on the New Testament(1974) says: "It cannot be absolutely certain that the writer meant to refer to the Lord Jesus specifically here."
How about Revelation 21:6? If close attention is paid to the verse, one can see that it is not Jesus who is speaking. The speaker is identified as God, and that is not Jesus. The verse states: "Anyone conquering will inherit these things, and I shall be his God and he will be my son." The point: Jesus referred to those who are joint heirs with him in his Kingdom as BROTHERS and not "sons," so the speaker is logically Jesus' Father, Jehovah.
Two final points, for those that care enough to really think about this:
(1) Going back to Rev.22:12 & 13, the saying, "And behold, I come quickly," (v.12)does not have to mean Jesus, because Jehovah ALSO speaks of HIMSELF as "coming" to "punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity," as at Isaiah 26:21.
Malachi 3:1-6 even speaks of a JOINT coming for judgment on the part of Jehovah and his "messenger of the covenant," which I'm sure all would agree means Jesus. Jehovah AND Jesus are coming!
(2) At Revelation 1:17 it is definitely Jesus who says, "I am the first and the last," but if you look at an Interlinear Bible, you can see that it is not translated "Alpha & Omega." The Greek is totally different! I wish I could show you here by posting the Greek letters. Could somebody do that---post the Greek in verse 1:8 for "Alpha & Omega," and in verse 17 for "the first and the last"? It does not call Jesus "the Alpha & Omega" in verse 17. Those two verses have different meanings. (The Interlinear Bible in Hebrew, Greek & English, Hendrickson)
So you are very wrong, Rosenritter. Do some more research.
:chuckle:
John 8:58 New King James Version (NKJV)
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
KingdomRose
New member
I'm wondering why my post about Hebrews 1:8 was not allowed to be posted & it just disappeared!
I showed that the most probable translation was "God is thy throne forever," and I gave reasoning on the subject.
It is quoted from Psalm 45:6, and the Jewish Publication Society rendered that verse about King David, "Your divine throne is forever," not referring to the king as "God." So Heb.1:8 really shouldn't be translated that way.
I hesitate to type all of the post over again, seeing as how it might be blasted right off the site again!
I showed that the most probable translation was "God is thy throne forever," and I gave reasoning on the subject.
It is quoted from Psalm 45:6, and the Jewish Publication Society rendered that verse about King David, "Your divine throne is forever," not referring to the king as "God." So Heb.1:8 really shouldn't be translated that way.
I hesitate to type all of the post over again, seeing as how it might be blasted right off the site again!
Apple7
New member
marhig
Well-known member
You don't need to try to prove anything, your right, Jesus isn't God. the very next verse in Hebrews 1 shows clearly that God is the God of Jesus. There is one God, and he is God the father and one Christ, Jesus the son of the living God, there's no such thing as a trinity, no God the son in the Bible, and Jesus clearly says that God is his God also. So if Jesus says that, then who are we to deny it?
John 20
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Hebrews 1 verses 8 and 9
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God,even thy God,hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
And this is Jesus speaking in John 17
"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
Clearly Jesus is saying that there is only one true God, and that's God the father and that he has sent Jesus and he is the Christ.
And I know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom God has sent.
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marhig
Well-known member
Where does it say in the Bible that you have to believe in the trinity to be a Christian?
If you don't understand or believe the Trinity you do not understand the nature of God. There are allusions to the Trinity throughout scripture. Why do you disregard what scripture says.