The Trinity

[Rosenritter]

I disagree, he said that the son is a form of God. Paul never wrote that Jesus Christ is God. But he is the highest of all creation made Lord of all by his God. The point being, the Father is greater than all. Christ is not equal to his God. I see the Father as the only true God, everything else is a creation. I see God's first creation as the express image, the spirit son, this son God used to create all.

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Try saying that while the scripture passages are still being quoted in the replies. Go back, re-post those selfsame scriptures, and say that again please... "Every knee shall bow"

 

[Rosenritter]

Colossians 1:15 KJV - Colossians 1:17 KJV -

Col 1:15-17 KJV
(15) Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
(16) For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
(17) And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Would love it if you would paste the scripture quote also. Realistically many people will skip by if the scripture isn't put right in front of them. I'll add one more companion to that:

Gen 1:1 KJV
(1) In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Keypurr, would you like to dispute that conclusion? God created the heaven and the earth, Jesus created all things that are in heaven and are in earth, therefore, Jesus is the God that created heaven and the earth.

 

[Lon]

Theos is the Greek as translated from the early Aramaic. So I question if Theos is the correct word. I have no doubts that Christ is a god, but I can not elevate him to the level of his Father.

Once you start chasing after unorthodox (unacceptable) liberal speculation, it is just playing in a meaningless sand and no discussion becomes meaningful because you'd literally speculate truth away as if it didn't exist. Revelation 6:16

All I want to know is what John 20:28 means without running to liberal skeptics for an answer.

"It doesn't say that" isn't helpful.

 

[patrick jane]

Col 1:15-17 KJV
(15) Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
(16) For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
(17) And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Would love it if you would paste the scripture quote also. Realistically many people will skip by if the scripture isn't put right in front of them. I'll add one more companion to that:

Gen 1:1 KJV
(1) In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Keypurr, would you like to dispute that conclusion? God created the heaven and the earth, Jesus created all things that are in heaven and are in earth, therefore, Jesus is the God that created heaven and the earth.

If you hover the arrow over the scriptures they pop up though -

 

[jamie]

If the Captain of the ship has a son is that son the Captain?

Captain is not a type of being, God is a type of being. There is God, angels, humans. God is above angels.

Hebrews 2:5 "For He has not put the world to come, of which we speak, in subjection to angels."

All things will be in subjection to us in the world to come.

Hebrews 2:8 "You have put all things in subjection under his feet. for in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under him. But now we do not yet see all things put under him."

Only God is immortal.

 

[jamie]

We do share some of the same relationship characteristics, but we are not God. not one of us accepts worship.

Not yet.

Revelation 3:9 "Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say they are Jews and are not, but lie, indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet and to know that I have loved you."

We are still unborn, begotten of the Spirit but not yet born of the Spirit.

 

[keypurr]

Colossians 1:15 KJV - Colossians 1:17 KJV -

Thank you for proving my point.


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[Rosenritter]

If you hover the arrow over the scriptures they pop up though -

It doesn't always display links. It didn't in this case. For that matter I have the Bible on desktop software and cell phone, it's a thousand times easier than it used to be for folk that didn't have the Bible ready. But even then it seems that the majority of people won't take that extra few seconds and read if they have to move.

So for effectiveness I suggest actually putting it in text where it can't be missed. Because of human nature.

 

[keypurr]

Isn't my hand a form of myself? "My Father is greater than I" he said, yet he spoke with the same authority and he made himself equal with God. "My Lord and my God" he said. "Mighty God, Everlasting Father" it prophesied. Paul acknowledged Jesus as God, substituting the name of Jesus where the old Testament says LORD.

Christ spoke with the authority GIVEN to him by his God.

Paul does not say Jesus is God, he is quite clear that he is not God.

Paul tells us we have one God, the Father, AND one Lord Jesus Christ.

He also speaks about "God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ"

Stop accepting the half truths you have been taught and read it for yourself with prayer for understanding.


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[Rosenritter]

Once you start chasing after unorthodox (unacceptable) liberal speculation, it is just playing in a meaningless sand and no discussion becomes meaningful because you'd literally speculate truth away as if it didn't exist. Revelation 6:16

All I want to know is what John 20:28 means without running to liberal skeptics for an answer.

"It doesn't say that" isn't helpful.

One of the Unitarian arguments I heard was that Thomas was swearing. As if Thomas had an iPhone and tweeted "It's Big J! OMG!" Not very convincing. But consider that for humor rather than a straw man. I'm sure Keypurr won't say that, right Keypurr?

 

[keypurr]

The Trinity

But you still aren't answering the questions I ask of you. Paul equated Jesus with LORD, substituting Jesus in the text where we have LORD. Jesus made himself God as he forgave sin. John says that the Word was not created but always present and was made flesh. The infant's name was Jesus, and Jesus continued to answer to the name Jesus throughout his earthly life. Jesus uses the names and titles of God freely, including first and the last, beginning and the end, and a new one Alpha and Omega... titles that were used for "there is no other God" in Isaiah.

If you were being blessed with such understanding I would think that the Holy Spirit would teach you the answers. I think you are trusting too much in your own personal translation.

You show me where Jesus Christ said he was God, he said he came to do the will of his Father. He preached his Father, not so much himself. He was empowered to forgive sins. Look when her raised Lazeriath (spelling?) from the dead, did he not ask his Father to do it?

I do not see where Paul is equating Jesus with the LORD of the OT.

John did not say Jesus is the word in John 1. Jesus is not the "word", thhthe


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[keypurr]

But you still aren't answering the questions I ask of you. Paul equated Jesus with LORD, substituting Jesus in the text where we have LORD. Jesus made himself God as he forgave sin. John says that the Word was not created but always present and was made flesh. The infant's name was Jesus, and Jesus continued to answer to the name Jesus throughout his earthly life. Jesus uses the names and titles of God freely, including first and the last, beginning and the end, and a new one Alpha and Omega... titles that were used for "there is no other God" in Isaiah.

If you were being blessed with such understanding I would think that the Holy Spirit would teach you the answers. I think you are trusting too much in your own personal translation.

Continue, my iPad is acting up on me.

Jesus is not the first and last, the express image is. That single spirit is the true son sent to us, not Jesus. Jesus is the body he prepared for Christ.

I have been blessed, was I given ALL? No, a human mind could not hold it all. But I need to share what I believe God gave me to share.




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[keypurr]

Try saying that while the scripture passages are still being quoted in the replies. Go back, re-post those selfsame scriptures, and say that again please... "Every knee shall bow"

Bowing to the King of Kings is a good thing to do friend.

His God made him Lord of all, except himself.

A servant is not as great as his master.

Christ is the servant son of YHWH.

.


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[achduke]

Revelation 3:20
John 14:7 If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him."
John 14:8 Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us."
John 14:9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
John 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works.

We do share some of the same relationship characteristics, but we are not God. not one of us accepts worship. Not one of us is seen the Father when you see us. He was clearly a different kind of man than you and I. If your theology doesn't notice that, or stops recognizing further recognition, then our theology is either insufficiently educated, or superseded beyond scripture allowance. I desire not to fall off on either side for mistruth that isn't mine to embrace.

Christ is indeed a man but he is not like a man like you and I. I was not born a virgin by the Holy Spirit and I am definitely not sinless. Although I have felt the Holy Spirit through out my life I do not have the full measure like Christ did, etc.

 

[keypurr]

One of the Unitarian arguments I heard was that Thomas was swearing. As if Thomas had an iPhone and tweeted "It's Big J! OMG!" Not very convincing. But consider that for humor rather than a straw man. I'm sure Keypurr won't say that, right Keypurr?

Right, Thomas was somewhat right in his statement but lets take a good look at it.

Yochanan 20:28 AENT
28 And Tomma answered said to him, My Master and my Elohim!"

Elohim is used in more than one way to describe spiritual beings. Not just God. Could be "a" god.

That is what the earliest m/s show in the Aramaic to English translation.

 

[keypurr]

Once you start chasing after unorthodox (unacceptable) liberal speculation, it is just playing in a meaningless sand and no discussion becomes meaningful because you'd literally speculate truth away as if it didn't exist. Revelation 6:16

All I want to know is what John 20:28 means without running to liberal skeptics for an answer.

"It doesn't say that" isn't helpful.

I think I answered your question. Your stuck on the muck of Greek Orothodox theology.

Show me why the Greek use the word "Theos"

Convince me that was the correct word to use. I try to keep my mind open Lon, but my AENT disagrees with your Greek.

 

[keypurr]

Captain is not a type of being, God is a type of being. There is God, angels, humans. God is above angels.

Hebrews 2:5 "For He has not put the world to come, of which we speak, in subjection to angels."

All things will be in subjection to us in the world to come.

Hebrews 2:8 "You have put all things in subjection under his feet. for in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under him. But now we do not yet see all things put under him."

Only God is immortal.

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:


Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

There is no question that God created all through the spirit son Christ. This spirit was IN the body of Jesus at his baptism. After the Dove the SPIRIT took Jesus into the wilderness. Jesus was a form of God, not God himself, he was an agent of the most high. He is no just another Angel, he created the Angles.

 

[jamie]

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Christ agreed to be the Savior before humans were ever created. He was always our Jesus (Savior).

Jesus, the Christ, was the firstborn of the dead, but not the Father's firstborn.

 

[keypurr]

Christ agreed to be the Savior before humans were ever created. He was always our Jesus (Savior).

Jesus, the Christ, was the firstborn of the dead, but not the Father's firstborn.

Jesus is not firstborn of creation, the express image is.
But I agree that he is firstborn from the dead.
The spirit son spoke through Jesus.
Jesus was the Lamb, the savior from birth. This was God's plan from the beginning.

 

[jamie]

Jesus is not firstborn of creation, the express image is.

Nope, the "express image" is not the Father's first born son.