The Trinity

The Trinity

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jamie

jamie

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LIFETIME MEMBER
1Mind1Spirit said:
So it was.... ummmmm.... Cain?
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Great question.

Exodus 4:22-23 "Then you shall say to Pharaoh, 'Thus says the LORD: Israel is My son, My firstborn.' So I say to you, 'let My son go that he may serve Me. But if you refuse to let him go, indeed I will kill your son, your firstborn.'"

And so he did.
 
1Mind1Spirit

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
jamie said:
Great question.

Exodus 4:22-23 "Then you shall say to Pharaoh, 'Thus says the LORD: Israel is My son, My firstborn.' So I say to you, 'let My son go that he may serve Me. But if you refuse to let him go, indeed I will kill your son, your firstborn.'"

And so he did.
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:) :chuckle:
 
Bright Raven

Bright Raven

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keypurr said:
1 No

2 No, the spirit that entered him is. God is a spirit, the exact image is also a spirit.

You need to point your finger at yourself BR. I do not misquote what in written. You and the churches do.

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Do you really expect me to believe that you are the only one who is right. Sorry keypurr, you are the one who misinterprets.
 
Bright Raven

Bright Raven

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keypurr said:
You show me where Jesus Christ said he was God, he said he came to do the will of his Father. He preached his Father, not so much himself. He was empowered to forgive sins. Look when her raised Lazeriath (spelling?) from the dead, did he not ask his Father to do it?

I do not see where Paul is equating Jesus with the LORD of the OT.

John did not say Jesus is the word in John 1. Jesus is not the "word", thhthe


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John 8:58 New King James Version (NKJV)

58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”


He says He is the I Am. What does that mean to you?
 
Bright Raven

Bright Raven

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keypurr said:
You show me where Jesus Christ said he was God, he said he came to do the will of his Father. He preached his Father, not so much himself. He was empowered to forgive sins. Look when her raised Lazeriath (spelling?) from the dead, did he not ask his Father to do it?

I do not see where Paul is equating Jesus with the LORD of the OT.

John did not say Jesus is the word in John 1. Jesus is not the "word", thhthe


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[You show me where Jesus Christ said he was God, he said he came to do the will of his Father. He preached his Father, not so much himself. He was empowered to forgive sins. Look when her raised Lazeriath (spelling?) from the dead, did he not ask his Father to do it?

Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead. Scripture is clear. John did say that Jesus was the Word. Are you blind?


John 1:14 New King James Version (NKJV)

The Word Becomes Flesh
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
 
Lon

Lon

Well-known member
Rosenritter said:
One of the Unitarian arguments I heard was that Thomas was swearing. As if Thomas had an iPhone and tweeted "It's Big J! OMG!" Not very convincing. But consider that for humor rather than a straw man. I'm sure Keypurr won't say that, right Keypurr?
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Worse, it is blasphemy. No Apostle would have been caught alive or dead doing that. I wouldn't and do not use God's name in vain. The structure of the sentence doesn't allow it either. It has to be translated "to Jesus, 'the Lord of me and God of me." It doesn't lend to today's blasphemy at all.
 
Lon

Lon

Well-known member
keypurr said:
I think I answered your question. Your stuck on the muck of Greek Orothodox theology.

Show me why the Greek use the word "Theos"

Convince me that was the correct word to use. I try to keep my mind open Lon, but my AENT disagrees with your Greek.
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I have Greek with every listed variance: Look

John is incredibly simple Greek. I agree with scholars it couldn't have been written in Hebrew, other than if a current day Jewish Christian wants that kind of translation (earliest translation made from the 19th century).
 
keypurr

keypurr

Well-known member
Bright Raven said:
John 8:58 New King James Version (NKJV)

58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”


He says He is the I Am. What does that mean to you?
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He said I AM he. He being the Christ. And yes the spirit was way before Abraham.

That is how I see it.
 
keypurr

keypurr

Well-known member
Lon said:
I have Greek with every listed variance: Look

John is incredibly simple Greek. I agree with scholars it couldn't have been written in Hebrew, other than if a current day Jewish Christian wants that kind of translation (earliest translation made from the 19th century).
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I disagree, it was written in Aramaic. From what I understand the early church in the west went to the Greek and the early church in the east kept the Aramaic.

The question is why did the Greek assume that the word "Elohim" mean "Theos"?

You have not answered that question Lon.
 
Lon

Lon

Well-known member
keypurr said:
I disagree, it was written in Aramaic. From what I understand the early church in the west went to the Greek and the early church in the east kept the Aramaic.
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Frustratingly, you can't read Greek so have no ability to discuss this intelligently with me. I'll simply say it again: John is written so simply, that it nearly demands, let alone any other evidence (and there is a LOT), that it was originally written in Greek. The structure is Greek. The expressions are Greek, etc. etc. etc.


keypurr said:
The question is why did the Greek assume that the word "Elohim" mean "Theos"?

You have not answered that question Lon.
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Because it isn't a given. It is a contested assumption that I find incredibly thin. Atheist and liberal scholars speculated. Before they ever came on the scene, none of this was even entertained. It really hasn't been entertained since then BUT by anti-orthodox liberals of which there are not many, and atheists. Which of them did you want to be associated with? Anglican Liberals or Atheists and agnostics? Not much of a choice as far as I'm concerned, but that's about it for psuedo-scholastics.
 
Rosenritter

Rosenritter

New member
keypurr said:
Continue, my iPad is acting up on me.

Jesus is not the first and last, the express image is. That single spirit is the true son sent to us, not Jesus. Jesus is the body he prepared for Christ.

I have been blessed, was I given ALL? No, a human mind could not hold it all. But I need to share what I believe God gave me to share.




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Jesus is not the first and the last?

Revelation 22:13-16 KJV
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. [14] Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. [15] For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. [16] I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Please just stop Keypurr. This is tiring. Again and again you say something and we just pull up the verse that says opposite. "I am the first and the last.. I JESUS.."
 
keypurr

keypurr

Well-known member
Rosenritter said:
Jesus is not the first and the last?

Revelation 22:13-16 KJV
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. [14] Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. [15] For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. [16] I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Please just stop Keypurr. This is tiring. Again and again you say something and we just pull up the verse that says opposite. "I am the first and the last.. I JESUS.."
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The point I am trying to show you is it is the express image, the spirit son that is first and last. Jesus did not exist until he was born. Christ spoke through Jesus. Your not really understanding what I am trying to tell you. God created all through his first creation the express image, a spirit.

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keypurr

keypurr

Well-known member
Lon said:
Frustratingly, you can't read Greek so have no ability to discuss this intelligently with me. I'll simply say it again: John is written so simply, that it nearly demands, let alone any other evidence (and there is a LOT), that it was originally written in Greek. The structure is Greek. The expressions are Greek, etc. etc. etc.



Because it isn't a given. It is a contested assumption that I find incredibly thin. Atheist and liberal scholars speculated. Before they ever came on the scene, none of this was even entertained. It really hasn't been entertained since then BUT by anti-orthodox liberals of which there are not many, and atheists. Which of them did you want to be associated with? Anglican Liberals or Atheists and agnostics? Not much of a choice as far as I'm concerned, but that's about it for psuedo-scholastics.
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Not knowing Greek I agree that I do not have the ability to discuss Greek. But do you have the ability to discuss Aramaic? We are kind of in the same boat Lon. The originals were Aramaic, they put a big question mark on the verse you chose to prove that Jesus is God or even part of God. It's one of the words that the Greek can mislead with. How much Hebrew do you know? Teach me if you do, I have so much to discover about the Hebrew terms and culture.

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