The Order of Salvation

God's Truth

New member
You're a legalist from some 3rd world country who probably doesn't have running water. You have no clue what the gospel is and never will. The gospel is what Christ did that you can never do for yourself. You can't perform one righteous act or one good deed, the best you can do is bow to the Almighty and hold your hand out like a beggar.

You are badly mistaken not knowing the scriptures. It is not wrong or shameful to obey God.

God did not nail obeying Him to the cross.

Jesus saves us all on his own, but he chooses whom he saves.

He chooses those who believe and obey him.
 

God's Truth

New member
Epo, you have to do something more than hold out your hand like a beggar.

...if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you; Mark 6:14


...if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins; Matthew 6:15


...If you continue to follow my teaching, you are really my disciples;
John 8:31


...if you do them you will be blessed; John 13:17


If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love; John 15:10


...if you do what I command you are my friends; John 15:14

...if we obey His commands---we may know that we know Him; 1 John 2:3


…unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven; Matthew 5:32.

…unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven; Matthew 18:3.

…unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart; Matthew 18:35.

…unless you repent, you too will all perish; Luke 13:3.

… unless they are born of water and the Spirit; John 3:5.

Unless I wash you, you have no part with me; John 13:8.

…unless it dies; 1 Corinthians 15:36.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Epo, you have to do something more than hold out your hand like a beggar.

...if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you; Mark 6:14


...if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins; Matthew 6:15


...If you continue to follow my teaching, you are really my disciples;
John 8:31


...if you do them you will be blessed; John 13:17


If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love; John 15:10


...if you do what I command you are my friends; John 15:14

...if we obey His commands---we may know that we know Him; 1 John 2:3


…unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven; Matthew 5:32.

…unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven; Matthew 18:3.

…unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart; Matthew 18:35.

…unless you repent, you too will all perish; Luke 13:3.

… unless they are born of water and the Spirit; John 3:5.

Unless I wash you, you have no part with me; John 13:8.

…unless it dies; 1 Corinthians 15:36.


You have no knowledge of the Gospel or what it means to be justified by faith. All that you know is obedience, which is of the law. Your obedience is what will bring you under the law, judgment and condemnation, Galatians 3:10.
 

God's Truth

New member
You have no knowledge of the Gospel or what it means to be justified by faith. All that you know is obedience, which is of the law. Your obedience is what will bring you under the law, judgment and condemnation, Galatians 3:10.

You think Jesus spent three and a half years speaking for nothing.
 

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Epo, you have to do something more than hold out your hand like a beggar.

...if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you; Mark 6:14


...if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins; Matthew 6:15
.

Do you really not see that there is a difference between those verses and these verses?

Eph 4:32* And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Col 2:13* And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;**


Law says do in order to receive.

Grace says that you have already received, therefore out of gratitude, do.
 

Samie

New member
Jesus isn't talking about His body when He speaks of the vine.
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

He said "I". that obviously include NOT only His head but also His body.

He had not yet been to the cross or been resurrected.
You're not aware He was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world?

The Holy Spirit had not yet been given.

You see no mention of being baptised into His body by the Holy Spirit, do you?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.​
Good thing, you also see it now. So why don't you believe all are in His Body when the text you used EXPLICITLY says we all are baptized INTO one Body?
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

He said "I". that obviously include NOT only His head but also His body.

You're not aware He was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world?

Good thing, you also see it now. So why don't you believe all are in His Body when the text you used EXPLICITLY says we all are baptized INTO one Body?

No one is baptized into the body of Christ without hearing and believing the Gospel.

"Being born again by the word of God (the Gospel) which lives and abides forever" 1 Peter 1:23.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

He said "I". that obviously include NOT only His head but also His body.

Jesus wasn't talking about His body, though, was He? He was speaking of being the "true vine" instead of ISRAEL. "The vineyard of the Lord of Hosts is the house of Israel..."

You're not aware He was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world?

God speaks of those things he purposes as though already done...they are certain.

Romans 4:17
(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.


Good thing, you also see it now. So why don't you believe all are in His Body when the text you used EXPLICITLY says we all are baptized INTO one Body?

Paul is speaking to believers.
 

Samie

New member
No one is baptized into the body of Christ without hearing and believing the Gospel.
Not in scripture.

"Being born again by the word of God (the Gospel) which lives and abides forever" 1 Peter 1:23.
Born again how?

This is what the word of God says as to how people are born again:

KJV 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

NAS 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
 

God's Truth

New member
Do you really not see that there is a difference between those verses and these verses?

Eph 4:32* And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Col 2:13* And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;**


Law says do in order to receive.

Grace says that you have already received, therefore out of gratitude, do.

Paul is speaking to people who are saved and telling them to keep obeying.

Paul is saying to keep doing right by forgiving others. He is telling the saved how to stay saved.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
He was speaking to all sanctified in Christ Jesus. Are all sanctified believers?

All what? All men? No, only those who obey the Gospel (believing) are sanctified in Christ Jesus.

Act. 26:15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. 16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; 17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, 18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Paul is speaking to people who are saved and telling them to keep obeying.

Paul is saying to keep doing right by forgiving others. He is telling the saved how to stay saved.

I see nothing there about obeying or staying saved. You did manage to miss the "all your trespasses" being forgiven, though, which is a good reason to forgive others as we were forgiven.
 

God's Truth

New member
I see nothing there about obeying or staying saved.

Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling

2 Thessalonians 1:8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

2 Thessalonians 3:14 If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of him. Do not associate with him, in order that he may feel ashamed.

1 Corinthians 11:31
But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment.

1 Timothy 3:6
He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil.

You did manage to miss the "all your trespasses" being forgiven, though, which is a good reason to forgive others as we were forgiven.

A person can't keep doing them and call it good.
 

God's Truth

New member
So... we're ultimately saved by works, not by grace.

Grace is that no one has to clean themselves by doing purification/ceremonial works just to go to the temple where God's Spirit was, because just having faith that Jesus' blood cleans us of the sins we repent of; and we become the temple.

We don't have to get circumcised, but we still have to obey.
 
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