The Order of Salvation

[God's Truth]

Membership (union) in anything has prerequisite requirements. No one gets to join something if they fail to possess the requirements for the joining. Hence the proper ordering of the Golden Chain of Redemption. All of these events happen in the blink of the eye, save for sanctification and glorification. Hence, the orderings shown are logical orderings.

The anti-Reformed or anti-Calvinist—Robert Pate for example—will argue faith precedes repentance, for they claim participatory moral ability in their quickening per their cling to libertarian free will. Of course we others believe strongly that Scripture teaches us that the non-believer cannot muster up faith, nor repentance, if and until God first acts (Exe. 36:26), given the desperate immoral state of the non-believer (Jer. 17:9; Mark 7:21-23; Eph. 2:2; Eph. 2:4-5; Titus 3:5; John 3:19; Rom. 3:10-12; 5:6; 6:16-20; Eph. 2:1,3;1 Cor. 2:14) who is fallen in Adam. Once the non-believer is quickened (born again, regenerated), that person's moral ability has been radically changed such that this person will not not believe, and will be granted (John 3:8; Rom. 9:15-16; 2 Tim. 2:25) that which he or she could not muster up beforehand: faith and repentance.

I do not assume for a moment that the person who professes faith understands all of these things at the moment of their re-birth. It is afterwards, as they are provoked by the Holy Spirit now indwelling them that they seek out to know more about their radical change. As they assemble corporately to worship God, receive instruction, as well as their own personal studies, not a few will come to a fuller understanding of the redemptive plan of God.

AMR

Paul's conversion is proof that your beliefs are ridiculous.
Paul was not saved the moment he believed and had faith.
He had to obey Jesus and then hear the message that saves and repent of his sins.

 

[Bright Raven]

You copy and paste large amounts of information not needed or asked for. That debate we had proves it. You had a hard time answering questions without copying and pasting irrelevant information.

What is creepy is you trying your best to bear false and slander another in the worst way you can think of.

He is not trying to slander but to show you that your theology is flawed. You're modalistic type theology is not in line with Orthodox Christianity.

 

[God's Truth]

Thanks for your response, AMR.Sounds like works-based salvation, to me, because of the "if".

How can the "hearing of the Scripture" happen in the blink of an eye? If it does, then what did he hear in a wink?

God told Jeremiah He sanctified him before birth (Jer 1:5), and was done through the offering of the body of Christ (Heb 10:10) and those whom God sanctified He made perfect forever (Heb 10:14); therefore, sanctification is God's work FOR man (Ezek 20:12). But you said sanctification is a "walk of faith", hence man's work. Looks like yours contradicts scripture, doesn't it?

So how was he, the yet unregenerated non-believer, able to do the act of "hearing the scripture" which in your "logical orderings" occurs PRIOR to "regeneration"? How was he able to "muster beforehand" the ability to "hear the scripture" while yet totally depraved?

You would do well as a hyper Calvinist.

 

[God's Truth]

He is not trying to slander but to show you that your theology is flawed. You're modalistic type theology is not in line with Orthodox Christianity.

He is trying to slander me. Go read more carefully what he said to me. He falsely accused me of following him around in a creepy way. This thread isn't even about the trinity. He is a Calvinist. Are you?

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Paul's conversion is proof that your beliefs are ridiculous.

Spend your time wisely. For starters, disabuse yourself of the need to follow me about and inject yourself into a discussion. It is becoming a wee bit creepy, lady.

Sigh.

AMR

 

[God's Truth]

The Gospel is a Mystery to the natural man! 1 c
Cor 2:7

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

The mystery was revealed by those in the New Testament.

The mystery was Jesus Christ.

Colossians 4:3 And pray for us, too, that God may open a door for our message, so that we may proclaim the mystery of Christ, for which I am in chains.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

How can the "hearing of the Scripture" happen in the blink of an eye? If it does, then what did he hear in a wink?

Read carefully. Post afterwards.

After having been given ears to hear (regeneration) comes the hearing. It is instantaneous. How fast do we hear? I know the answer. Which is the faster stimuli, sight or sound? I know the answer.

Be silent now or deal with the actual content rather than these nonsensical interruptions.

AMR

 

[God's Truth]

Sigh.

AMR

Paul's conversion disproves your false Calvin doctrines.

Jesus saved Paul after Paul believed and obeyed him.

When Paul was on the road to Damascus, Jesus spoke to him and Paul believed. Paul was not then saved.

Acts 9:5 "Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked. "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied.

6 but get up and enter the city, and it will be told you what you must do."…


Paul had to obey Jesus before Jesus saved him...Paul had to go where Jesus told him to go; Paul went.

After Paul went, he fasted; he did not eat or drink anything for three days.



Acts 9:9 And he was three days without sight, and neither ate nor drank.


Paul spent this time praying. If you do not think that Paul spent this time begging for forgiveness and repenting, then you would be badly mistaken.



Acts 9:11 The Lord told him, "Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying.


When Paul had his vision restored to him, he was told to get up, be baptized and wash his sins away, calling on the Lord.

When people were baptized with water that was symbolic of having their sins washed away, after they repented.

In addition, people came out of the water after repenting and being baptized, they called upon the name of the Lord.

We are told to believe, and repent, and to call upon the name of the Lord.


Romans 10:13 for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."


WILL BE SAVED---NOT are saved in the blink of an eye.


Acts 22:16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.'


Paul did what we all are told to do.

We have faith and obey that is how we are saved.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

He is trying to slander me. Go read more carefully what he said to me. He falsely accused me of following him around in a creepy way. This thread isn't even about the trinity. He is a Calvinist. Are you?

I am not trying to slander you. Firstly, I suspect any claimed defamation would be akin to libel, not slander. Master the difference. It is also not libelous if what I have stated is borne out by the facts behind my statements, which they clearly are, as this conversation indicates. You are following me around, whining and pejoratively commenting about me. It is creepy, lady.

:AMR:

If you respond once again, it is beyond creepy, but now stalking. Have some shame and dignity for your station in life.

AMR

 

[God's Truth]

I am not trying to slander you. Firstly, I suspect any claimed defamation would be akin to libel, not slander. Master the difference. It is also not libelous if what I have stated is borne out by the facts behind my statements, which they clearly are, as this conversation indicates. You are following me around, whining and insulting me. It is creepy.

:AMR:

AMR

Calvinism is full of falseness. You stated that one is regenerated before they are saved to make them believe .
Regeneration happens when one is saved. Regeneration happens when one receives the Holy Spirit when they are saved.

God does not save unbelievers.

He does not cause people to believe without their wanting and knowing.

Faith does not come from God supernaturally giving us faith.

Our faith comes from HEARING the word, see Romans 10:17. From hearing the word and being TAUGHT, Colossians 1:5, 7. From continuing in what we have been CONVINCED of, see 2 Timothy 3:14, and being PERSUADED, 2 Corinthians 5:11.

 

[God's Truth]

Satan would have us believe that the order of salvation is complicated and hard to understand and believe. when in reality it is very simple, so that even a small child can understand it.

The Bible says, "There is a way that seem right unto a man; but the end thereof are the ways of death" Proverbs 14:12

Religion is the way of man. Religion will say that the order of salvation is that you must repent, confess, believe, be regenerated, be chosen, be baptized, submit, surrender, etc. If we examine what the Bible says about the order of salvation we will discover that none of the above is true. Perhaps that is why there are so many counterfeit Christians.

Becoming a Christian is NOT WHAT WE DO. Many have become Christians like they have become members of the P.T.A. They have just joined the church like they joined any other association. Some of these do get saved unexpectedly by hearing and believing the Gospel.

Paul tells us exactly what the order of salvation is, "So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17. and then again he said, "Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (because you did something) or by the hearing of faith?" (hearing and believing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.

Paul wrote to the Hebrews, "For unto us was the Gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it, Hebrews 4:12." Some heard the Gospel and believed it, some heard the Gospel and rejected it. This is how it is, the Gospel goes out in the world, some hear it and believe it, others hear it and reject it.

In the Gospel we hear that Jesus atoned for our sins and the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2. For some this is very hard to believe and embrace. There are many that cannot believe that Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world, they are unbelievers. This Gospel calls for a response, to not respond is a response. Those that respond with a heart full of love and gratitude for what Christ has done for them are sealed with the Holy Spirit.

The gospel message is about Jesus' blood cleaning us of the sins we REPENT of doing.

We have to have faith that his blood does that.

 

[Samie]

Read carefully. Post afterwards.

After having been given ears to hear (regeneration) comes the hearing.

I usually read carefully before I post. That's why I noticed an illogicality in your "logical sequence".

You are telling me "regeneration" first then comes the "hearing", BUT in your post quoted below the "hearing of scripture" occurs first before "regeneration".

Yes it is quite simple once one is reborn and seeks to understand from the provocations of the Holy Spirit exactly what happened:

Romans 8:28-30
The golden chain of redemption: foreknowledge, predestination, calling, regeneration, faith, repentance, justification, union to Christ, adoption, sanctification, and glorification.

Romans 8:28-30 (KJV)
Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

foreknowledge - God's love of His chosen (the elect) before time (Eph. 1:11).
predestination - God's sovereign eternal decree as relates to the elect and the reprobate (Eph. 1:3-14).
calling - God's ordinary means, the hearing of the Scripture, the outward call, that effectuates the inward call of the elect (Eph. 2:1-3).
regeneration - the quickening of the "dead men walking" to life: new genesis, the beginning of a new life in a radically renewed person (1 Peter 1:23).
faith - the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen - a vital and personal trust in Christ as Savior and Lord (Rom. 10:5-13).
repentance - the radical turning from sin to Christ, the fruit of regeneration (2 Cor. 7:8-12).
justification - a forensic act of God declaring, counting, reckoning those "in Christ" righteous (Phil. 3:7-11).
union to Christ - the joining of the regenerated (quickened) radically new person with Christ by God. The union which the elect have with Christ is the work of God’s grace, whereby they are spiritually and mystically, yet really and inseparably, joined to Christ as their head and husband; which is done in their effectual calling. (Eph. 1:22; Eph. 2:6-8).
adoption - we are now related to Christ as branches of the True Vine, the children of God (John 15:1,5).
sanctification - our walk of faith towards greater destruction of the dominion of sin and the lusts thereof (Rom.6:6,14; Gal.5:24; Rom.8:13).
glorification - as we will be after the Lord's Second Coming (1 Cor. 15:53).

AMR

Did you somehow commit a blunder, a mistake, maybe, in your "logical sequence" above?

 

[beloved57]

The mystery was revealed by those in the New Testament.

The mystery was Jesus Christ.

Colossians 4:3 And pray for us, too, that God may open a door for our message, so that we may proclaim the mystery of Christ, for which I am in chains.

The Gospel is a Mystery to the natural man.

 

[God's Truth]

The Gospel is a Mystery to the natural man.

The scripture plainly says Jesus Christ was a mystery.

Here are more scriptures that prove Paul revealed the mystery:

Romans 16:25-26 Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him--

 

[Nanja]

The Gospel is a Mystery to the natural man.

1 Cor. 2:14

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him:

neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[beloved57]

The scripture plainly says Jesus Christ was a mystery.

Here are more scriptures that prove Paul revealed the mystery:

Romans 16:25-26 Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him--

The Gospel of Christ is a Mystery to the natural man. His mind is blinded.

 

[God's Truth]

The Gospel of Christ is a Mystery to the natural man. His mind is blinded.

The mystery is Jesus and Paul revealed it.

 

[God's Truth]

The Gospel is a Mystery to the natural man.

1 Cor. 2:14

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him:

neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The natural man is about a man only interested in pleasing his flesh. He does not want to submit to God; it is foolishness to him.

We are not only flesh, we are also spirit. Some people are more spiritual and want more out of life than just pleasing our flesh.

 

[beloved57]

The mystery is Jesus and Paul revealed it.

The Gospel is a Mystery to the natural man. He can't receive it.

 

[God's Truth]

The Gospel is a Mystery to the natural man. He can't receive it.

You don't understand Paul.

God does not save unbelievers. Your beliefs are false.