The Late Great Urantia Revelation

[freelight]

Jesus on 'Religion'

Jesus on 'Religion'

Hi,
I did read it, and concerning"ringing true", I have some assumptions and/or notions which cause me to question.
Firstly, how do I know Jesus ever said those things; and by what authority?

Wonderful. We must take the initiate to ask, seek and knock.

How can we know that Jesus ever said those things? Consider the spirit of the words and their intentful meaning, then go on to discover their 'value', and then you might accept that such would be appropriate for Jesus to have shared. By what authority? Isn't 'truth' itself, its own authority? Let truth and wisdom speak for itself.

UB quotes in blue below and your questions on the concerned passage following -

155:6.5 While the religion of authority may impart a present feeling of settled security, you pay for such a transient satisfaction the price of the loss of your spiritual freedom and religious liberty. My Father does not require of you as the price of entering the kingdom of heaven that you should force yourself to subscribe to a belief in things which are spiritually repugnant, unholy, and untruthful. It is not required of you that your own sense of mercy, justice, and truth should be outraged by submission to an outworn system of religious forms and ceremonies. The religion of the spirit leaves you forever free to follow the truth wherever the leadings of the spirit may take you. And who can judge—perhaps this spirit may have something to impart to this generation which other generations have refused to hear?

155:6.5 What's his measurement to determine truth vs untruth? Is there an absolute definition of one's own sense of mercy, justice, and truth? And of what outrages it?

Any religious teaching or practice that violate's one's own conscience and is further contrary to the Spirit of God, would be those things that outrage one's sense of mercy, justice and truth. Consider the constrasts being shared and context. The sermon is comparing the religion of the mind (intellectual, dogmatic, frozen) with the religion of the spirit (dynamic, living, progressive).

155:6.7 I admonish you to give up the practice of always quoting the prophets of old and praising the heroes of Israel, and instead aspire to become living prophets of the Most High and spiritual heroes of the coming kingdom. To honor the God-knowing leaders of the past may indeed be worth while, but why, in so doing, should you sacrifice the supreme experience of human existence: finding God for yourselves and knowing him in your own souls?

155:6.7 How can he call human existence the supreme experience?

He is referring to it as such because it thru the 'supreme experience' of 'human existence' that one has the opportunity of discovering 'God' for himself within one's own soul.

155:6.11 Never forget there is only one adventure which is more satisfying and thrilling than the attempt to discover the will of the living God, and that is the supreme experience of honestly trying to do that divine will. And fail not to remember that the will of God can be done in any earthly occupation. Some callings are not holy and others secular. All things are sacred in the lives of those who are spirit led; that is, subordinated to truth, ennobled by love, dominated by mercy, and restrained by fairness— justice. The spirit which my Father and I shall send into the world is not only the Spirit of Truth but also the spirit of idealistic beauty.

155:6.11 What is subordinated to truth, ennobled by love, dominated by mercy, and restrained by fairness? Is there a norm; what sets the standard for these abstracts?

Does not your own soul have an intrinsic sense and ability to recognize truth, love, mercy and justice? Furthermore these are enhanced and vivified in our souls by Gods Presence within. - where else is their source? the 'standard' is inherent in their actual realities, attributes and qualities.


155:6.12 You must cease to seek for the word of God only on the pages of the olden records of theologic authority. Those who are born of the spirit of God shall henceforth discern the word of God regardless of whence it appears to take origin. Divine truth must not be discounted because the channel of its bestowal is apparently human. Many of your brethren have minds which accept the theory of God while they spiritually fail to realize the presence of God. And that is just the reason why I have so often taught you that the kingdom of heaven can best be realized by acquiring the spiritual attitude of a sincere child. It is not the mental immaturity of the child that I commend to you but rather the spiritual simplicity of such an easy-believing and fully-trusting little one. It is not so important that you should know about the fact of God as that you should increasingly grow in the ability to feel the presence of God.

155:6.12 Is it really more important to feel than to know?
I guess I said enough to let you in on my thoughts.

'Knowing' God includes a 'feeling'(sense) of His Presence does it not? Is knowing 'God' just a stale lifeless intellectual idea or concept?, just a theory? As we become like little children in trust and faith in God's Presence,...we will have all our faculties and perception engaged in communion with His Presence, and how could it be otherwise? 'Knowing' God includes the entire feeling-nature and cognitive abilities of Man, for God's Allness of Being pervades all.

Jesus Second discourse on Religion


pj

 

[Furchizedek]

He is The Author of The Holy Bible, having inspired every verse.

LOL! Yah, like God inspired this verse too:

Isa 36:12 But Rabshakeh said, Hath my master sent me to thy master and to thee to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men that sit upon the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?

Do you know what blasphemy is? It's suggesting that such verses as the above are inspired by God. That's blasphemy. Are you so completely screwed up that you don't recognize your own blasphemy?

 

[Caino]

Freelight, that was a great synopsis of the teachings of Jesus. Thank you!


Caino

 

[Aimiel]

LOL! Yah, like God inspired this verse too:

Isa 36:12 But Rabshakeh said, Hath my master sent me to thy master and to thee to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men that sit upon the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?

Do you know what blasphemy is? It's suggesting that such verses as the above are inspired by God. That's blasphemy. Are you so completely screwed up that you don't recognize your own blasphemy?

I don't 'suggest' that Isaiah wrote Scripture verses which were inspired by The Lord, I know he did; whether you think he did or not. God's Word is Truth, and all Scripture is given by His inspiration.

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[Furchizedek]

According to the Urantia revelation, Jesus traveled as far as Rome prior to his baptism and public teaching:

http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1382#U130_0_1

Caino

And even more:

132:7.3 It was on the visit to Switzerland, up in the mountains, that Jesus had an all-day talk with both father and son about Buddhism. Many times Ganid had asked Jesus direct questions about Buddha, but he had always received more or less evasive replies. Now, in the presence of the son, the father asked Jesus a direct question about Buddha, and he received a direct reply. Said Gonod: “I would really like to know what you think of Buddha.” And Jesus answered:

 

[Aimiel]

The UB is blasphemous sacrilege, pure and simple.

From http://www.letusreason.org/Cults17.htm :

The whole Christian religion is repudiated in one sentence: “The cardinal religious ideas of - inspiration, revelation, propitiation, repentance, atonement, intercession, sacrifice, prayer, confession, worship, survival after death, sacrament, ritual, ransom, salvation, redemption, covenant, uncleaness, Purification, prophesy, original sin they all go back to the early times of primordial ghost fear.” (Urantia Book, page 1005) The bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead is denied. “His material or physical body was not part of the resurrected personality. . . the body of flesh m which he lived . . . was still lying there in the sepulchre.” (pages 2021, 2023, 2024 - 1313. )

 

[Caino]

The UB is blasphemous sacrilege, pure and simple.

From http://www.letusreason.org/Cults17.htm :

The whole Christian religion is repudiated in one sentence: “The cardinal religious ideas of - inspiration, revelation, propitiation, repentance, atonement, intercession, sacrifice, prayer, confession, worship, survival after death, sacrament, ritual, ransom, salvation, redemption, covenant, uncleaness, Purification, prophesy, original sin they all go back to the early times of primordial ghost fear.” (Urantia Book, page 1005) The bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead is denied. “His material or physical body was not part of the resurrected personality. . . the body of flesh m which he lived . . . was still lying there in the sepulchre.” (pages 2021, 2023, 2024 - 1313. )

1) Its the Christian religion that is off, as it evolved away from the gospel of the kingdom of heaven, not the other way around

2) Read your bible, Jesus was resurrected in a new form, he is no longer carbon based but appears and disappears at will, enters locked rooms at will.

You will observe from the Bible that in the case of Lazarus' resurrection, the burial cloths were still on him when he emerged from the tomb. With Jesus the burial cloths lay where the body one did.

Jesus tells Mary "touch me not"

THE MATERIAL BODY OF JESUS ​

189:2.1 At ten minutes past three o'clock, as the resurrected Jesus fraternized with the assembled morontia personalities from the seven mansion worlds of Satania, the chief of archangels—the angels of the resurrection—approached Gabriel and asked for the mortal body of Jesus. Said the chief of the archangels: "We may not participate in the morontia resurrection of the bestowal experience of Michael our sovereign, but we would have his mortal remains put in our custody for immediate dissolution. We do not propose to employ our technique of dematerialization; we merely wish to invoke the process of accelerated time. It is enough that we have seen the Sovereign live and die on Urantia; the hosts of heaven would be spared the memory of enduring the sight of the slow decay of the human form of the Creator and Upholder of a universe. In the name of the celestial intelligences of all Nebadon, I ask for a mandate giving me the custody of the mortal body of Jesus of Nazareth and empowering us to proceed with its immediate dissolution."

189:2.2And when Gabriel had conferred with the senior Most High of Edentia, the archangel spokesman for the celestial hosts was given permission to make such disposition of the physical remains of Jesus as he might determine.

189:2.3 After the chief of archangels had been granted this request, he summoned to his assistance many of his fellows, together with a numerous host of the representatives of all orders of celestial personalities, and then, with the aid of the Urantia midwayers, proceeded to take possession of Jesus' physical body. This body of death was a purely material creation; it was physical and literal; it could not be removed from the tomb as the morontia form of the resurrection had been able to escape the sealed sepulchre. By the aid of certain morontia auxiliary personalities, the morontia form can be made at one time as of the spirit so that it can become indifferent to ordinary matter, while at another time it can become discernible and contactable to material beings, such as the mortals of the realm.

189:2.4 As they made ready to remove the body of Jesus from the tomb preparatory to according it the dignified and reverent disposal of near-instantaneous dissolution, it was assigned the secondary Urantia midwayers to roll away the stones from the entrance of the tomb. The larger of these two stones was a huge circular affair, much like a millstone, and it moved in a groove chiseled out of the rock, so that it could be rolled back and forth to open or close the tomb. When the watching Jewish guards and the Roman soldiers, in the dim light of the morning, saw this huge stone begin to roll away from the entrance of the tomb, apparently of its own accord—without any visible means to account for such motion—they were seized with fear and panic, and they fled in haste from the scene. The Jews fled to their homes, afterward going back to report these doings to their captain at the temple. The Romans fled to the fortress of Antonia and reported what they had seen to the centurion as soon as he arrived on duty.

189:2.5 The Jewish leaders began the sordid business of supposedly getting rid of Jesus by offering bribes to the traitorous Judas, and now, when confronted with this embarrassing situation, instead of thinking of punishing the guards who deserted their post, they resorted to bribing these guards and the Roman soldiers. They paid each of these twenty men a sum of money and instructed them to say to all: "While we slept during the nighttime, his disciples came upon us and took away the body." And the Jewish leaders made solemn promises to the soldiers to defend them before Pilate in case it should ever come to the governor's knowledge that they had accepted a bribe.

189:2.6 The Christian belief in the resurrection of Jesus has been based on the fact of the "empty tomb." It was indeed a fact that the tomb was empty, but this is not the truth of the resurrection. The tomb was truly empty when the first believers arrived, and this fact, associated with that of the undoubted resurrection of the Master, led to the formulation of a belief which was not true: the teaching that the material and mortal body of Jesus was raised from the grave. Truth having to do with spiritual realities and eternal values cannot always be built up by a combination of apparent facts. Although individual facts may be materially true, it does not follow that the association of a group of facts must necessarily lead to truthful spiritual conclusions.

189:2.7 The tomb of Joseph was empty, not because the body of Jesus had been rehabilitated or resurrected, but because the celestial hosts had been granted their request to afford it a special and unique dissolution, a return of the "dust to dust," without the intervention of the delays of time and without the operation of the ordinary and visible processes of mortal decay and material corruption.

189:2.8 The mortal remains of Jesus underwent the same natural process of elemental disintegration as characterizes all human bodies on earth except that, in point of time, this natural mode of dissolution was greatly accelerated, hastened to that point where it became well-nigh instantaneous.

189:2.9 The true evidences of the resurrection of Michael are spiritual in nature, albeit this teaching is corroborated by the testimony of many mortals of the realm who met, recognized, and communed with the resurrected morontia Master. He became a part of the personal experience of almost one thousand human beings before he finally took leave of Urantia.




Caino

 

[Aimiel]

1) Its the Christian religion that is off, as it evolved away from the gospel of the kingdom of heaven, not the other way around

Sorry, but The Lamb of God, slain from the foundation of the earth said quite differently.

2) Read your bible, Jesus was resurrected in a new form, he is no longer carbon based but appears and disappears at will, enters locked rooms at will.

He never was carbon-based, He is The One Who invented carbon. He is Spirit. Your Urantia fiction cannot erode or erase a single Word of His Prophecies. All those who believe Urantia rather than The Bible will have the same end, and it isn't above.

 

[Caino]

Sorry, but The Lamb of God, slain from the foundation of the earth said quite differently.He never was carbon-based, He is The One Who invented carbon. He is Spirit. Your Urantia fiction cannot erode or erase a single Word of His Prophecies. All those who believe Urantia rather than The Bible will have the same end, and it isn't above.

....he was never carbon based???? Not material???? Not human????

C

 

[Aimiel]

He was God, even when He was a Zygote. He created every element, and it is The Word of His Power that holds every single molecule there is in existence; otherwise all of creation would fly off into pieces and disintegrate back into the nothing that it was created from.

Hebrews 1:1-4

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

He is Everlasting. He isn't 'based' upon anything, being God, and being above creation, including time and space. There is nothing impossible for Him. He took on The Form of Flesh, He wasn't flesh-based or based upon anything, everything that exists is created by, for and through Him.

John 1:3

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

 

[Caino]

He was God, even when He was a Zygote. He created every element, and it is The Word of His Power that holds every single molecule there is in existence; otherwise all of creation would fly off into pieces and disintegrate back into the nothing that it was created from.

Hebrews 1:1-4

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

He is Everlasting. He isn't 'based' upon anything, being God, and being above creation, including time and space. There is nothing impossible for Him. He took on The Form of Flesh, He wasn't flesh-based or based upon anything, everything that exists is created by, for and through Him.

John 1:3

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Betcha when Mary pushed that baby out, she though he was "something" more then a ghost.

C

 

[Aimiel]

I never said He wasn't flesh-and-blood, I merely objected to Him being limited to being 'based' upon anything, being Eternal God. He met with His disciples, and cooked fish for them and ate together with them after He had been glorified, so obviously, He is capable of being whatever form He chooses to manifest.

 

[Caino]

I never said He wasn't flesh-and-blood, I merely objected to Him being limited to being 'based' upon anything, being Eternal God. He met with His disciples, and cooked fish for them and ate together with them after He had been glorified, so obviously, He is capable of being whatever form He chooses to manifest.

Jesus was a duel personality, a duel being. He remained subject to the will of his Father as a human and divine personality combined. He appeared to be able to self limit his divinity.

After the resurrection, in the same form that we will be resurrected in, he no longer had the need for the material body. He could make himself visible to human eyes or vanish, because he was no longer flesh and blood. Prior to that he resided in a mortal tabernacle subject to the laws with which he co created mankind.

Anyway, your opening criticism which initiated this particular volley does not invalidate the Son of Man incarnate nor faith in him nor the kingdom of heaven which he established. The mechanism which begins evolutionary religion is mans reaction to an imaginary ghost world which leads him eventually to a veneration of the real spiritual world.



C

 

[freelight]

Incarnation......

Incarnation......

I never said He wasn't flesh-and-blood, I merely objected to Him being limited to being 'based' upon anything, being Eternal God. He met with His disciples, and cooked fish for them and ate together with them after He had been glorified, so obviously, He is capable of being whatever form He chooses to manifest.

The Papers affirm the Incarnation of Jesus, and such is a divine mystery, how Deity could take on a mortal form, therefore the UB affirms and honors 'God' becoming man (as the Orthodox Christian does)...although it has a different heirarchal and cosmological ordering of things (plus the 'process' of incarnation is explained differently from a 'virgin birth').

This act of Jesus was one of divine love and mercy, to partake of mortality and draw intimately near to his children of the matterial realm, plus his bestowal on Urantia was his final and 7th incarnation whereby he attained total sovereignty over his total creation and now reigns as Sovereign Ruler. The Papers call the various incarnations of the Creator-Sons, "bestowals". Jesus (Christ-Michael) is one of many thousand Creator-Sons, but to us is our Creator/Father being the Creator of this universe (Nebadon).

The Bestowals of Christ Michael

As far as the consistency of Jesus body is concerned we explore this in this thread -

Jesus resurrection and ascension body

Jesus post-resurrection appearances were in his 'morontial' form, which is of a substance that is in-between the 'physical' and 'spiritual', a form we ourselves will consist of until we become more spiritually purified and integrated in our universe ascension.

Note:

My sharings here are detailed more according to what the Papers teach since the thread is about such (to the extend of my own knowledge however fair or limited), even though my religious studies and spiritual research includes and extends beyond its specific cosmology and even theology in its particulars. Those interested can learn and compare such with traditional/orthodox Christianity or their own religious affiliation, since the Papers integrate and comprehend the total religious history and culture of Man in light of its dispensation being 'The Fifth Epochal Revelation'.


pj

 

[JWStipple]

I may not agree that God exists at all...but I can most certainly agree that, if God does exist, then the UB representation is a better picture of God than the so-called "reference" or standard religions.

The Bible is sorely in need of an update.

 

[Aimiel]

The Bible is timeless, and will remain the same, should Jesus return tonight or ten thousand years from now. No one in this thread has yet made a case for the Jebus described in the UB being anywhere near The Saviour and Deliverer which Jesus, Who is Christ is revealed as in The Holy Scriptures. Urantia has clever deception built into it, but it isn't clever enough to fool His Very Elect.

 

[Caino]

I may not agree that God exists at all...but I can most certainly agree that, if God does exist, then the UB representation is a better picture of God than the so-called "reference" or standard religions.

The Bible is sorely in need of an update.

Hi Jwstipple,

I concur; I approach reality with the belief that "something’s true", I'm trying to find it. But as for any of us having a monopoly on reality the UB makes this interesting statement:

RELATIVITY OF CONCEPT FRAMES​

115:1.1 Partial, incomplete, and evolving intellects would be helpless in the master universe, would be unable to form the first rational thought pattern, were it not for the innate ability of all mind, high or low, to form a universe frame in which to think. If mind cannot fathom conclusions, if it cannot penetrate to true origins, then will such mind unfailingly postulate conclusions and invent origins that it may have a means of logical thought within the frame of these mind-created postulates. And while such universe frames for creature thought are indispensable to rational intellectual operations, they are, without exception, erroneous to a greater or lesser degree.

115:1.2 Conceptual frames of the universe are only relatively true; they are serviceable scaffolding which must eventually give way before the expansions of enlarging cosmic comprehension. The understandings of truth, beauty, and goodness, morality, ethics, duty, love, divinity, origin, existence, purpose, destiny, time, space, even Deity, are only relatively true. God is much, much more than a Father, but the Father is man's highest concept of God; nonetheless, the Father-Son portrayal of Creator-creature relationship will be augmented by those supermortal conceptions of Deity which will be attained in Orvonton, in Havona, and on Paradise. Man must think in a mortal universe frame, but that does not mean that he cannot envision other and higher frames within which thought can take place.



Caino

 

[freelight]

investigation..........

investigation..........

The Bible is timeless, and will remain the same, should Jesus return tonight or ten thousand years from now. No one in this thread has yet made a case for the Jebus described in the UB being anywhere near The Saviour and Deliverer which Jesus, Who is Christ is revealed as in The Holy Scriptures. Urantia has clever deception built into it, but it isn't clever enough to fool His Very Elect.

Truth itself is 'timeless', unchanging, yet dynamically alive within each moment and generation.

The UB speaks for itself as far as Jesus goes, a full account of his life, teachings, ministry, resurrection, ascension providing much more details, information, context of universal value/meaning from the cosmic viewpoint inspiring a greater vision than what a more archaic, primitive and inadequate concept of God might provide, hence the purpose of its grant.

UB Fellowship

Honest researchers can decide for themselves. Truth has nothing to fear and is open to examination....however its presented (whatever 'vehicle').....


pj

 

[Lost Comet]

From Science and the Akashic Field by Ervin Laszlo:

A GAME THAT GENERATES ITS OWN GOAL

There is a simpler way than computer simulation to experience processes that lead to goal states that were not given at the beginning. It can be done by playing the particular variant of the popular parlor game twenty questions that was suggested by the physicist John Wheeler (though he had an abstruse problem of quantum physics in mind). In the usual version of this game, a person leaves the room and the others decide on a thing or object that the person is to guess. The latter can ask a maximum of twenty questions, and only "yes" or "no" answers can be given to each question. But each question narrows the scope of possibilities because it excludes alternative possibilities. For example, if the first question is "Is it living?" (as opposed to nonliving), a yes answer excludes all things other than plants, animals, insects, and simple organisms.

In the alternative version, a person leaves the room and the others, without telling him, agree not to agree on a given thing or object but pretend that they did. They must give consistent answers, however. Consequently, when the innocent interlocutor returns and asks, "Is it living?" and if the answer he or she gets is yes, then all subsequent answers must pretend that the thing to be guessed is a plant, an animal, or perhaps a microorganism. A skilled player can narrow the scope of possibilities in such a way that within twenty questions he or she identifies one definite answer-for example, the kitten next door. Yet that was not the goal when the game was started. There was no goal — the one that emerged was generated by the game itself!

Philosophy you somewhat grasp, and divinity you comprehend in worship, social service, and personal spiritual experience, but the pursuit of beauty — cosmology — you all too often limit to the study of man’s crude artistic endeavors. Beauty, art, is largely a matter of the unification of contrasts. Variety is essential to the concept of beauty. The supreme beauty, the height of finite art, is the drama of the unification of the vastness of the cosmic extremes of Creator and creature. Man finding God and God finding man — the creature becoming perfect as is the Creator — that is the supernal achievement of the supremely beautiful, the attainment of the apex of cosmic art. (646.4) 56:10.3

Hence materialism, atheism, is the maximation of ugliness, the climax of the finite antithesis of the beautiful. Highest beauty consists in the panorama of the unification of the variations which have been born of pre-existent harmonious reality. (646.5) 56:10.4

It is important to remember that Reality is not a concept! For many people, atheists and theists, human ideas and teachings about God are just about the only reality God has. They can't get past the idea of God in order to grasp the ideal. In consequence, they identify God with the things people say about God — a fallacious proceeding that intelligent and self-critical believers should never do. Intelligent believers must realize that that even the best ideas are not worthy of the reality. However, this is not sufficient reason to say "no" in response to the First Question: Is there a “pre-existent harmonious reality”? Belief in a pre-existent harmonious reality presents us with the intellectual foundation of experiential religion — perfection-hunger. Is what atheism presents us with equally serviceable?

No one doubts that there are good atheists and bad theists. Just about everyone of normal moral rectitude acknowledges some kind of foundation upon which to build their “house.” However, if the foundation is nature, reason (who's reason?), evolution, dialectic of history, sentiment, standards of society or anything else of the temporal order, come the storm their house will fall or otherwise be compromised. No matter how beautiful the architecture, it is a house built upon a foundation of sand. If, however, we build our house on the presumption of a “pre-existent harmonious reality” and aspire to identify with it, our house will be as strong as our faith in their supreme ideal. If the pre-existent harmonious reality is seen as being "holy, just, and great, as well as being true, beautiful, and good and these attributes of divinity are focused in the mind as the “will of the Father in heaven,” ideals are exalted and elevated to a sublime experience that proclaims every mortal creature is a child of this Father of love, a son of God." Again, we must ask ourselves if what atheism presents us with equally serviceable.

This is not to say atheism is wrong; but asking if it can act as a serviceable common ground or pointer. Can mechanistic inevitability, “just because” or “I don't know” serve just as well? And if “yes,” how? On what basis?

 

[Aimiel]

The UB speaks for itself as far as Jesus goes, a full account of his life, teachings, ministry, resurrection, ascension providing much more details, information, context of universal value/meaning from the cosmic viewpoint inspiring a greater vision than what a more archaic, primitive and inadequate concept of God might provide, hence the purpose of its grant.

I believe most of us already knew that this was your view of The Holy Scriptures. They contain Truth, and cannot be equaled, much less exceeded, in any way. They aren't the least bit inadequate or anything less that perfectly capable of leading men to Truth, Life and The One and Only Way to Heaven: Jesus, Who is Christ. Your fiction books and books about false gods that don't even exist (for instance the UB and it's fictional Jebus, who is obviously NOT Christ) only lead men into deception, like what you're hoodwinked by.

Honest researchers can decide for themselves.

It isn't dis-honest to know The Truth and fill others in on their error; it's pure fiction, which you espouse; and there's no honesty in it.

Truth has nothing to fear and is open to examination... however its presented (whatever 'vehicle')...

Jesus fears nothing, not having an equal, let alone one who is better than He. He exposed Himself, in His Ministry, and will continue to do so; such that one day, there will be no more mystery, and yet even then, men such as yourself will still not repent and believe The Gospel. Pathetic. :nono: