The Late Great Urantia Revelation

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blackbirdking

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The UB is a bit "woo-woo" for my tastes. However, measured against other revelational religious texts, the picture it paints of God is a God I would love to exist...a God worthy of the name, the best that God represents.


What is a revelational text? Is that what the UB is?
 

Lost Comet

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So you can't know truth? But you can live it? I don't think that can be right. I don't think it's true. How can you live/be and not know you are living/being? How do you know you are living/being?
What Caino said in post #579.

Your question presumes that truth is ascertained by dismembering, segregating, isolating and analyzing life until there is no life.
 

Caino

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"without the shedding of blood"

The concept of blood sacrifice was adopted by the Hebrew ancestry from the various Pagan practices then present in Mesopotamia. These concepts and practices predated Abraham; in fact, many religions around the world once practiced various forms of blood sacrifice. After Exodus, Moses established the practice of animal sacrifice as an advance away from human sacrifice. It was a purely evolutionary religious ritual and not mandated by God. The OT books are retrospectives, they were compiled and written during the period of the captivity for the purpose of establishing a coherent heritage for the scattered Jewish people in hopes of restoring faith in their promised place in Abrahams faith based covenant and prophetic future. Caino


4.5.5 "The Hebrews believed that “without the shedding of blood there could be no remission of sin.” They had not found deliverance from the old and pagan idea that the Gods could not be appeased except by the sight of blood, though Moses did make a distinct advance when he forbade human sacrifices and substituted therefor, in the primitive minds of his childlike Bedouin followers, the ceremonial sacrifice of animals.


63.6.4 Very early the Andonic peoples formed the habit of refraining from eating the flesh of the animal of tribal veneration. Presently, in order more suitably to impress the minds of their youths, they evolved a ceremony of reverence which was carried out about the body of one of these venerated animals; and still later on, this primitive performance developed into the more elaborate sacrificial ceremonies of their descendants. And this is the origin of sacrifices as a part of worship. This idea was elaborated by Moses in the Hebrew ritual and was preserved, in principle, by the Apostle Paul as the doctrine of atonement for sin by “the shedding of blood.”


93.6.4 This covenant of Melchizedek with Abraham represents the great Urantian agreement between divinity and humanity whereby God agrees to do everything; man only agrees to believe God’s promises and follow his instructions. Heretofore it had been believed that salvation could be secured only by works — sacrifices and offerings; now, Melchizedek again brought to Urantia the good news that salvation, favor with God, is to be had by faith. [1974 BC] But this gospel of simple faith in God was too advanced; the Semitic tribesmen subsequently preferred to go back to the older sacrifices and atonement for sin by the shedding of blood.


121.6.5 Many, but not all, of Philo’s inconsistencies resulting from an effort to combine Greek mystical philosophy and Roman Stoic doctrines with the legalistic theology of the Hebrews, Paul recognized and wisely eliminated from his pre-Christian basic theology. Philo led the way for Paul more fully to restore the concept of the Paradise Trinity, which had long been dormant in Jewish theology. In only one matter did Paul fail to keep pace with Philo or to transcend the teachings of this wealthy and educated Jew of Alexandria, and that was the doctrine of the atonement; Philo taught deliverance from the doctrine of forgiveness only by the shedding of blood. He also possibly glimpsed the reality and presence of the Thought Adjusters more clearly than did Paul. But Paul’s theory of original sin, the doctrines of hereditary guilt and innate evil and redemption therefrom, was partially Mithraic in origin, having little in common with Hebrew theology, Philo’s philosophy, or Jesus’ teachings. Some phases of Paul’s teachings regarding original sin and the atonement were original with himself."



Caino
 

Aimiel

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"without the shedding of blood"
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. -- Hebrews 9:22

The Lord has said that the life is in the blood.

For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off. -- Leviticus 17:14

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. -- Romans 6:23

Jesus' Blood was shed for the payment of our debt to sin: death. He gives us His Life, since He took our death.[/QUOTE]The concept of blood sacrifice was adopted by the Hebrew ancestry from the various Pagan practices then present in Mesopotamia. [/QUOTE]No, it wasn't. It was ordained by God, through the holy prophets.
These concepts and practices predated Abraham; in fact, many religions around the world once practiced various forms of blood sacrifice.
Because there were sacrifices before God ordained what became passover (as well as other sacrifices that He commanded) doesn't mean that what God ordained was taken from pagan rituals to false gods.

Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house: and if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb. Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats: and ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening. And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it. -- Exodus 12:3-7
After Exodus, Moses established the practice of animal sacrifice as an advance away from human sacrifice.
No, it was ordained as a symbol of Christ's sacrifice.
It was a purely evolutionary religious ritual and not mandated by God.
False, and contradictory to The Holy Scriptures.
The OT books are retrospectives, they were compiled and written during the period of the captivity for the purpose of establishing a coherent heritage for the scattered Jewish people in hopes of restoring faith in their promised place in Abrahams faith based covenant and prophetic future.
No, they are a 100% correct historical record, and 100% correct prophetic utterances of The Holy Spirit. Merely being 100% correct in just the record of history is not only remarkable, it is entirely significant, as it is the only record of antiquity which carries that kind of reputation.
4.5.5 "The Hebrews believed that “without the shedding of blood there could be no remission of sin.”
The wages of sin being death, you're quite right. It is still true today. Always will be true. Jesus' Blood, alone, satisfies God's Righteousness, which He demands of men.
This idea was elaborated by Moses in the Hebrew ritual and was preserved, in principle, by the Apostle Paul as the doctrine of atonement for sin by “the shedding of blood.”
Backwards and blind, as God clearly was pointing towards Jesus with the Passover. Just looking at the rituals the Jews still perform to this day in the Passover meal and celebration reveal the many types and symbols of Christ.

http://jewsforjesus.org/judaica/passover/resources/symbols

One practice in particular, that of folding three breads into one cloth, revealing each one, reveals Jesus, in The Holy Trinity. The middle bread is eaten, while the other two are not.

Your lying spirit(s) which dictated the Urantia Book has you hoodwinked. It's quite obvious.
 

JWStipple

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No, they are a 100% correct historical record, and 100% correct prophetic utterances of The Holy Spirit.

Wow! A book that contains not only the prophecies, but also the record of their fulfillment? How could anyone doubt the hand of God in that?
 

Caino

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For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off. -- Leviticus 17:14

Written by Jewish priest for followers of Judaism long after Moses established these customs.

And BTW, why don't the Jews still practice these laws???? Why don't they burn people at the stake anymore for not setting up the tent of meeting properly or prostitution???? When did God say to change those laws????? Because religion "evolves" and man now sees how barbaric those old man made laws would be if practiced now.

What books, customs, ceremonies, priest etc. were the Hebrews following prior to Exodus???? All gone and remolded by Moses then during the Babylonian captivity.


For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. -- Romans 6:23

Written by a Christian who believed in the new evolved religion about Jesus that made Jesus a blood sacrifice. Not written by any God.



Caino
 

Aimiel

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And BTW, why don't the Jews still practice these laws?
I believe that they will one day.
Why don't they burn people at the stake anymore for not setting up the tent of meeting properly or prostitution?
For one thing, God NEVER commanded such; for another, the church which did practice this barbaric form of torture would set it up again, if they thought they could get away with it, and would as easily put me on the stake as they would you.
When did God say to change those laws?
When Jesus' Sacrifce was accepted, which was the moment of His Death, when the veil of the temple which was a single seamless cloth over four inches thick, was torn from top to bottom, into two pieces. I believe it was 25' tall.
Because religion "evolves" and man now sees how barbaric those old man made laws would be if practiced now.
God instituted the best form of capital punishment: stoning. If a sinner was stoned to death, I believe that as he approaches the point of death, stoning offers the greatest chance and opportunity for repentance.
Written by a Christian who believed in the new evolved religion about Jesus that made Jesus a blood sacrifice. Not written by any God.
Although God wrote less than one chapter, Personally; He is The Author of The Holy Bible, having inspired every verse.
 

Caino

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Why don't they burn people at the stake anymore for not setting up the tent of meeting properly or prostitution?

For one thing, God NEVER commanded such; for another, the church which did practice this barbaric form of torture would set it up again, if they thought they could get away with it, and would as easily put me on the stake as they would you.


Leviticus 20

1And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,


Lev 21:9 And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

Lev 20:14 And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.

When did God say to change those laws?

When Jesus' Sacrifce was accepted, which was the moment of His Death, when the veil of the temple which was a single seamless cloth over four inches thick, was torn from top to bottom, into two pieces. I believe it was 25' tall.

Then Jesus and the 12 were already law brakers.;)

"When Gods will is your law then you are hardly in the kingdom"


Caino
 

Aimiel

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Leviticus 20

1And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,


Lev 21:9 And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.
That isn't mere prostitution. It's the daughter of a priest committing prostitution.
Lev 20:14 And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.
Is this supposed to be regarding the tent of meeting?
Then Jesus and the 12 were already law brakers.
In what regard? Which law(s)?
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
So you can't know truth? But you can live it? I don't think that can be right. I don't think it's true. How can you live/be and not know you are living/being? How do you know you are living/being?

We could say one is 'knowing' truth as he is living it. Spirit is Self-luminous.

What is a revelational text? Is that what the UB is?

Yes, any text or collection of writings given by 'revelation'. You have this thread, plus our other Urantia thread to learn more of what the Papers are about.



pj
 

Lost Comet

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Although I refer to various source and quote from them, I do not defer to them. I let truth speak for itself. I do not argue the validity the teaching based on the authority of its source.
 

Caino

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That isn't mere prostitution. It's the daughter of a priest committing prostitution.Is this supposed to be regarding the tent of meeting?In what regard? Which law(s)?

Quibbling legalisms, you denied the Bible taught burning of prostitutes: "For one thing, God NEVER commanded such; for another, the church which did practice this barbaric form of torture would set it up again, if they thought they could get away with it, and would as easily put me on the stake as they would you."

You were wrong, or you use the technicality of "priest daughters"....should come as no surprise, the law was written by priest.

The tent of meeting was a joke although the death penalty was applicable to other ritualistic failures.


Jesus broke the Sabbath (according to the Jews that created the law). I know the law is man made so I don't care.

Caino
 

Aimiel

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Jesus didn't break The Sabbath, which He created for man, by saying, "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy." -- Exodus 20:8 He did NOTHING un-holy on any day, let alone Sabbath days. As you pointed out, the laws that the Jews of His day were under were religious laws written by religious men for those who love to observe religious rituals. The inquisitions conducted by the Roman catholics demonstrated that Christianity had declined in the dark ages to being even worse than the Pharisees of Jesus' day.
 

blackbirdking

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I don't think I'm going to have a satisfactory, boiler plate type of answer for you because it would be like trying to prove God to a non believer. God can't be proved, but he can be experienced.
God is a person to, when we try to standardize God then he becomes a crystallized theology. When we formalize God into creeds and rituals then God is no longer a living guide in our daily lives but simply the founder of our man made ritualistic philosophy.
This link is to one of my most favorite sermons from Jesus in the UB. See if it tweaks your heart, does it "ring true"?
http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1407#U155_6_1
Colter

Hi,
I did read it, and concerning"ringing true", I have some assumptions and/or notions which cause me to question.
Firstly, how do I know Jesus ever said those things; and by what authority?
155:6.5 What's his measurement to determine truth vs untruth? Is there an absolute definition of one's own sense of mercy, justice, and truth? And of what outrages it?
155:6.7 How can he call human existence the supreme experience?
155:6.11 What is subordinated to truth, ennobled by love, dominated by mercy, and restrained by fairness? Is there a norm; what sets the standard for these abstracts?
155:6.12 Is it really more important to feel than to know?
I guess I said enough to let you in on my thoughts.
 

Caino

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Hi,
I did read it, and concerning"ringing true", I have some assumptions and/or notions which cause me to question.
Firstly, how do I know Jesus ever said those things; and by what authority?
155:6.5 What's his measurement to determine truth vs untruth? Is there an absolute definition of one's own sense of mercy, justice, and truth? And of what outrages it?
155:6.7 How can he call human existence the supreme experience?
155:6.11 What is subordinated to truth, ennobled by love, dominated by mercy, and restrained by fairness? Is there a norm; what sets the standard for these abstracts?
155:6.12 Is it really more important to feel than to know?
I guess I said enough to let you in on my thoughts.


"The authority of truth is the very spirit that indwells its living manifestations, and not the dead words of the less illuminated and supposedly inspired men of another generation. And even if these holy men of old lived inspired and spirit-filled lives, that does not mean that their words were similarly spiritually inspired. Today we make no record of the teachings of this gospel of the kingdom lest, when I have gone, you speedily become divided up into sundry groups of truth contenders as a result of the diversity of your interpretation of my teachings. For this generation it is best that we live these truths while we shun the making of records."


blackbirdking,

All these questions that you ask were asked by Jews of Jesus, at least one can assume as much. You will need to decide for yourself. It may be that it's best for you to remain settled with the conformity of one of the Christian doctrine's (there are 35,000 of them so you will need to pick one). The UB may not be for you.


Caino
 

Caino

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Jesus didn't break The Sabbath, which He created for man, by saying, "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy." -- Exodus 20:8 He did NOTHING un-holy on any day, let alone Sabbath days. As you pointed out, the laws that the Jews of His day were under were religious laws written by religious men for those who love to observe religious rituals. The inquisitions conducted by the Roman catholics demonstrated that Christianity had declined in the dark ages to being even worse than the Pharisees of Jesus' day.

The Sabbath was established back after Adam and Eve incarnate on a populated, evolved world 39,000+ BC. The process took six days, so they made the seventh the holy day of rest, fellowship and worship. It simply became a tradition and not Gods rule.


Caino
 

Caino

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It's interesting to consider the spiritual influence that the Egyptians had on the post exilic Israelites and subsequent biblical literature.


THE TEACHINGS OF AMENEMOPE



95:4.1 In due time there grew up in Egypt a teacher called by many the "son of man" and by others Amenemope. This seer exalted conscience to its highest pinnacle of arbitrament between right and wrong, taught punishment for sin, and proclaimed salvation through calling upon the solar deity.

95:4.2 Amenemope taught that riches and fortune were the gift of God, and this concept thoroughly colored the later appearing Hebrew philosophy. This noble teacher believed that God-consciousness was the determining factor in all conduct; that every moment should be lived in the realization of the presence of, and responsibility to, God. The teachings of this sage were subsequently translated into Hebrew and became the sacred book of that people long before the Old Testament was reduced to writing. The chief preachment of this good man had to do with instructing his son in uprightness and honesty in governmental positions of trust, and these noble sentiments of long ago would do honor to any modern statesman.

95:4.3 This wise man of the Nile taught that "riches take themselves wings and fly away"—that all things earthly are evanescent. His great prayer was to be "saved from fear." He exhorted all to turn away from "the words of men" to "the acts of God." In substance he taught: Man proposes but God disposes. His teachings, translated into Hebrew determined the philosophy of the Old Testament Book of Proverbs. Translated into Greek, they gave color to all subsequent Hellenic religious philosophy. The later Alexandrian philosopher, Philo, possessed a copy of the Book of Wisdom.

95:4.4 Amenemope functioned to conserve the ethics of evolution and the morals of revelation and in his writings passed them on both to the Hebrews and to the Greeks. He was not the greatest of the religious teachers of this age, but he was the most influential in that he colored the subsequent thought of two vital links in the growth of Occidental civilization—the Hebrews, among whom evolved the acme of Occidental religious faith, and the Greeks, who developed pure philosophic thought to its greatest European heights.

95:4.5 In the Book of Hebrew Proverbs, chapters fifteen, seventeen, twenty, and chapter twenty-two, verse seventeen, to chapter twenty-four, verse twenty-two, are taken almost verbatim from Amenemope's Book of Wisdom. The first psalm of the Hebrew Book of Psalms was written by Amenemope and is the heart of the teachings of Ikhnaton.




Caino
 
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