The Late Great Urantia Revelation

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JWStipple

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The power of religious belief is the power of hope. Religious belief provides a type of hope that few other beliefs provide. Atheism can not offer the kind of hope that religious belief provides. One of the "essences" of marketing is large promise...in that respect, God has better marketing than atheism does.

However...if truth has any value, at least in terms of an accurate, undiluted description of the thing being described, then atheism may have one ace up its sleeve that no religious belief has...and that's the truth itself...but only, of course, as long as there's no God.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
satori.....................

satori.....................

The power of religious belief is the power of hope. Religious belief provides a type of hope that few other beliefs provide. Atheism can not offer the kind of hope that religious belief provides. One of the "essences" of marketing is large promise...in that respect, God has better marketing than atheism does.

However...if truth has any value, at least in terms of an accurate, undiluted description of the thing being described, then atheism may have one ace up its sleeve that no religious belief has...and that's the truth itself...but only, of course, as long as there's no God.

And what is scary for some is the total abandonment of all conceptual frames of perception, ideas, beliefs, concepts, assumptions, theorems, etc. If all such things are 'dropped' and one abides in 'non-attachment' to any-thing, what is there left to hold onto? Nothing :) - and this is true liberation,....as least in some schools.


With all 'points' of view released....there is no 'point' to grasp or apprehend. There is only this freedom of the Buddha-nature which is neither existence or non-existence but is the uniting ground and context in which conceptions have their place only as a matter of 'reference'. Without 'reference' or 'definity', original reality still exists as native to all, no matter how defined or undefined.

Zen (zazen)

The UB commends Buddhism, yet only criticizes its lack of worship of 'God' as a true divine Personality, and its lack of emphasis of the social gospel of the 'Fatherhood of God and brotherhood of man'. I enjoy Zen and Non-Duality for its pure simplicity and trascendence.............


pj
 

Lost Comet

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The power of religious belief is the power of hope. Religious belief provides a type of hope that few other beliefs provide. Atheism can not offer the kind of hope that religious belief provides. One of the "essences" of marketing is large promise...in that respect, God has better marketing than atheism does.

However...if truth has any value, at least in terms of an accurate, undiluted description of the thing being described, then atheism may have one ace up its sleeve that no religious belief has...and that's the truth itself...but only, of course, as long as there's no God.
This post (and Aimiel's posts) is an example of what was meant when I said, "For many people, atheists and theists, human ideas and teachings about God are just about the only reality God has. They can't get past the idea of God in order to grasp the ideal." The problem is twofold. First, facts and truth are not synonymous. No one can (reasonably) argue against empirical facts of science, but science does not provide us with an intellectual foundation: it does not answer the "First Question." It does not "point" to a unified or unifying common ground. The second problem is that it fails to recognize that reality is not a concept: its truth may be lived but not (intellectually) known.

(2094.1) 196:3.2 There are just three elements in universal reality: fact, idea, and relation. The religious consciousness identifies these realities as science, philosophy, and truth. Philosophy would be inclined to view these activities as reason, wisdom, and faith — physical reality, intellectual reality, and spiritual reality. We are in the habit of designating these realities as thing, meaning, and value.

(2094.2) 196:3.3 The progressive comprehension of reality is the equivalent of approaching God. The finding of God, the consciousness of identity with reality, is the equivalent of the experiencing of self-completion — self-entirety, self-totality. The experiencing of total reality is the full realization of God, the finality of the God-knowing experience.

(2095.6) 196:3.22 True religious worship is not a futile monologue of self-deception. Worship is a personal communion with that which is divinely real, with that which is the very source of reality. Man aspires by worship to be better and thereby eventually attains the best.

Maybe science does have an "ace up its sleeve," but the game being played is chess.
 
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JWStipple

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The problem is twofold. First, facts and truth are not synonymous. No one can (reasonably) argue against empirical facts of science, but science does not provide us with an intellectual foundation: it does not answer the "First Question."

Patience. If there is no God, then there's no intelligent design...which means the universe got the way it is by itself. Almost by definition, that would have to be simple...or at least simple enough to NOT require intelligent design.

And anything simple enough to NOT require intelligent design MAY be simple enough for intelligent entities to wrap their minds around. In the absence of a cosmic "mind", "how" and "why" become pretty much the same question.

The jury's still out on this one. The LHC will help, but still may wind up a bit short of the holy grail.

It does not "point" to a common ground.

Not yet, anyway. If there is a single element, a single dynamic that gives rise to everything else, it may be possible to characterize that common ground with pretty high precision.

But note that my language contains "if" and "may"...simply ideas at this point, not an assertion of fact.

The second problem is that it fails to recognize that reality is not a concept: its truth may be lived but not (intellectually) known.

Pretty fuzzy word there, "reality". It can refer to the biggest possible picture...or to any of a brazilian smaller aspects or subsets of it. At least some of those may well be intellectually know. All we can do is figure out what can be figured out...and leave the rest as circumstance requires.

There's still a fairly good-sized playground of potentially knowable stuff out there. I imagine we'll continue to chip away at it...one shovelful at a time...until we can go no further.
 

Lost Comet

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Patience. If there is no God, then there's no intelligent design...which means the universe got the way it is by itself. Almost by definition, that would have to be simple...or at least simple enough to NOT require intelligent design.

And anything simple enough to NOT require intelligent design MAY be simple enough for intelligent entities to wrap their minds around. In the absence of a cosmic "mind", "how" and "why" become pretty much the same question.

The jury's still out on this one. The LHC will help, but still may wind up a bit short of the holy grail.



Not yet, anyway. If there is a single element, a single dynamic that gives rise to everything else, it may be possible to characterize that common ground with pretty high precision.

But note that my language contains "if" and "may"...simply ideas at this point, not an assertion of fact.



Pretty fuzzy word there, "reality". It can refer to the biggest possible picture...or to any of a brazilian smaller aspects or subsets of it. At least some of those may well be intellectually know. All we can do is figure out what can be figured out...and leave the rest as circumstance requires.

There's still a fairly good-sized playground of potentially knowable stuff out there. I imagine we'll continue to chip away at it...one shovelful at a time...until we can go no further.
Sorry, JW, but this is all straw man argumentation. Please pay attention:

"For many people, atheists and theists, human ideas and teachings about God are just about the only reality God has. They can't get past the idea of God in order to grasp the ideal."
It has been said many times before and I'll say it again: The God conceived is not God.
 
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Caino

BANNED
Banned
Melchizedek introduced the substitute of bread and wine in the place of blood sacrifice 2,000 BC.


"While no sacrifices were permitted within the colony, Melchizedek well knew how difficult it is to suddenly uproot long-established customs and accordingly had wisely offered these people the substitute of a sacrament of bread and wine for the older sacrifice of flesh and blood. It is of record, "Melchizedek, king of Salem, brought forth bread and wine." But even this cautious innovation was not altogether successful; the various tribes all maintained auxiliary centers on the outskirts of Salem where they offered sacrifices and burnt offerings. Even Abraham resorted to this barbarous practice after his victory over Chedorlaomer; he simply did not feel quite at ease until he had offered a conventional sacrifice. And Melchizedek never did succeed in fully eradicating this proclivity to sacrifice from the religious practices of his followers, even of Abraham."


Genesis 14

18 Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. He was priest of God Most High, 19 and he blessed Abram, saying,

“Blessed be Abram by God Most High,
Creator of heaven and earth.

20 And praise be to God Most High,
who delivered your enemies into your hand.”

Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything.



Caino
 

JWStipple

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It has been said many times before and I'll say it again: The God conceived is not God.

That, of course, is your own conception of it.

So this applies to YOU as well...every time you "correct" someone else's conception, you're simply substituting your own conception for theirs. No, I don't accept your conception...any more than you accept mine.
 

Lost Comet

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That, of course, is your own conception of it.

So this applies to YOU as well...every time you "correct" someone else's conception, you're simply substituting your own conception for theirs. No, I don't accept your conception...any more than you accept mine.
All I can do is point. It is up to you to see what the finger is pointing to -- and it points to a no-thing. ;)

In the words of Alan Watts: "Behold! Not even an empty universe." Not even the concept thereof.
 
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Furchizedek

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The UB is blasphemous sacrilege, pure and simple.

From http://www.letusreason.org/Cults17.htm :

The whole Christian religion is repudiated in one sentence: “The cardinal religious ideas of - inspiration, revelation, propitiation, repentance, atonement, intercession, sacrifice, prayer, confession, worship, survival after death, sacrament, ritual, ransom, salvation, redemption, covenant, uncleaness, Purification, prophesy, original sin they all go back to the early times of primordial ghost fear.” (Urantia Book, page 1005) The bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead is denied. “His material or physical body was not part of the resurrected personality. . . the body of flesh m which he lived . . . was still lying there in the sepulchre.” (pages 2021, 2023, 2024 - 1313. )

Have YOU actually read Part IV of The Urantia Book, "The Life and Teachings of Jesus"? If not, why not?

If not, are you afraid to do so? Are you afraid of what you might learn about Jesus and about the errors in the religion you currently believe? Are you afraid that your mind is so weak that you might get sucked into some new, strange thing? Can you imagine that essentially, you have yourself already been indoctrinated and brainwashed into a cult, the Cult of Paul?

196:1.3 Of all human knowledge, that which is of greatest value is to know the religious life of Jesus and how he lived it. -The Urantia Book

Come and see! Don't be afraid.

Paraphrasing:
John 1:46 And Aimiel said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Chicago? Furchizedek saith unto him, Come and see.
 

Lost Comet

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Mormons teach personal growth and progression, spirit and element are inseparably connected, there are more refined and subtle elements and many inhabited worlds. Kabbalah teaches the self-differentiation of the Ein Sof (the ONE). The UB teaches about a planet a hundred times larger than Earth with gravity a trifle less. Now, cosmologists talk about a universe interwoven with our own composed of dark matter with cosmologists wondering about their dark matter (recent issue of Scientific American).

Coincidence, or all parts of the Cosmic Puzzle?
 

Caino

BANNED
Banned
The materialization of Adam and Eve some 39,000 years ago is faintly recorded in the confused and garbled book of Genesis.. On an ordinary world (ours had already fallen into darkness) the material sons and daughters "Adam and Eve" would ordinarily remain on the planet all the way up until the stages of "light and life". After the attainment of this stage the pair are released of their duties and return to the world of their origins in an advanced state and prepared for more service.-



TRANSIT OF THE PLANETARY ADAMS

51:2.1 Upon receipt of the news that another inhabited world has attained the height of physical evolution, the System Sovereign convenes the corps of Material Sons and Daughters on the system capital; and following the discussion of the needs of such an evolutionary world, two of the volunteering group—an Adam and an Eve of the senior corps of Material Sons—are selected to undertake the adventure, to submit to the deep sleep preparatory to being enseraphimed and transported from their home of associated service to the new realm of new opportunities and new dangers.

51:2.2 Adams and Eves are semimaterial creatures and, as such, are not transportable by seraphim. They must undergo dematerialization on the system capital before they can be enseraphimed for transport to the world of assignment. The transport seraphim are able to effect such changes in the Material Sons and in other semimaterial beings as enable them to be enseraphimed and thus to be transported through space from one world or system to another. About three days of standard time are consumed in this transport preparation, and it requires the co-operation of a Life Carrier to restore such a dematerialized creature to normal existence upon arrival at the end of the seraphic-transport journey.

51:2.3 While there is this dematerializing technique for preparing the Adams for transit from Jerusem to the evolutionary worlds, there is no equivalent method for taking them away from such worlds unless the entire planet is to be emptied, in which event emergency installation of the dematerialization technique is made for the entire salvable population. If some physical catastrophe should doom the planetary residence of an evolving race, the Melchizedeks and the Life Carriers would install the technique of dematerialization for all survivors, and by seraphic transport these beings would be carried away to the new world prepared for their continuing existence. The evolution of a human race, once initiated on a world of space, must proceed quite independently of the physical survival of that planet, but during the evolutionary ages it is not otherwise intended that a Planetary Adam or Eve shall leave their chosen world.

51:2.4 Upon arrival at their planetary destination the Material Son and Daughter are rematerialized under the direction of the Life Carriers. This entire process takes ten to twenty-eight days of Urantia time. The unconsciousness of the seraphic slumber continues throughout this entire period of reconstruction. When the reassembly of the physical organism is completed, these


Caino
 

Aimiel

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Have YOU actually read Part IV of The Urantia Book, "The Life and Teachings of Jesus"? If not, why not?
No. It's fiction, and I don't see where religion and fiction can come together, when the latter is pretending to be the former. I don't need to subscribe to the devil's magazine to recognize it as being evil. :yawn:
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Freely given...............

Freely given...............

No. It's fiction, and I don't see where religion and fiction can come together, when the latter is pretending to be the former. I don't need to subscribe to the devil's magazine to recognize it as being evil. :yawn:


You're in no position to judge such, from 'ignorance' and 'presumption' having not researched and read it carefully for yourself. Therefore, your opinion is non-credible and clearly biased.

Not only does it contain much of what Jesus taught in the gospels, but expands greatly upon its various themes from the perspective of higher cosmic insight and the souls eternal destiny in doing God's will. The truth and wisdom in such passages speak for themselves, the same wherever such principles are shared and demonstrated.

One could just as well claim the gospels are mostly 'religious fiction' and crafted mythology, however the religious truths and spiritual principles remain 'true' in their substance, no matter how these are expressed in story or metaphors....or further paraphrased in future dispensations of revelation, bringing more clarity. An honest spiritual seeker draws from truth wherever its found, opening to greater understanding, knowledge and wisdom. - such is the way, - ask, seek and knock; aspire, long towards the light of God, and it shall be yours.

Urantia Book Index



pj
 

Caino

BANNED
Banned
"Many of the religious systems of man come from the formulations of the human intellect, but the God-consciousness is not necessarily a part of these grotesque systems of religious slavery." UB 196 3.2

Freelight,

The task of introducing something so beautiful, so revelatory and replete is truly daunting in light of the indoctrinated damage that has been perpetuated upon so called Christians.

We can see how and why Jesus was so bitterly hated by the most "religious" of society. We can appreciate the fact that it was the common people who heard him gladly, not the cranky righteous man.

All this can further help us understand the answer that Jesus gave when point blank asked, during his trumped up trial, “are you the Messiah, the Son of God?” And Jesus answered: “If I tell you, you will not believe me; and if I ask you, you will not answer.”

Humanity ponders and searches for answers in fervent prayer and scientific inquiry, yet, when God does eventually provide the answers, man scoffs at those gifts and turns upon the messengers.

Forgive Aimiel, for he knows not what he does.



Caino
 

JWStipple

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Aimiel is where he needs to be at this point in this life. When he's ready for more, the universe will be ready to provide it.
 

Aimiel

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You're in no position to judge such, from 'ignorance' and 'presumption' having not researched and read it carefully for yourself. Therefore, your opinion is non-credible and clearly biased.
The opinions that are biased are those of you who've read the nonsense and are fooled into believing that it's anywhere near being true. Truth is: it's channeled by demonic forces, and that isn't up for debate. That's a plain and simple fact which you've decided to ignore.
Not only does it contain much of what Jesus taught in the gospels, but expands greatly upon its various themes from the perspective of higher cosmic insight and the souls eternal destiny in doing God's will.
'Higher' cosmic insight provided by demonic doctrine isn't a good thing. :duh:
The truth and wisdom in such passages speak for themselves, the same wherever such principles are shared and demonstrated.
The problem is, there's just enough truth in those writings to make you think that the whole is Truth. The Truth isn't represented in the UB.
One could just as well claim the gospels are mostly 'religious fiction' and crafted mythology, however the religious truths and spiritual principles remain 'true' in their substance, no matter how these are expressed in story or metaphors....or further paraphrased in future dispensations of revelation, bringing more clarity.
One could claim that pigs can fly, too. Doesn't make it so.
An honest spiritual seeker draws from truth wherever its found, opening to greater understanding, knowledge and wisdom. - such is the way, - ask, seek and knock; aspire, long towards the light of God, and it shall be yours.
No, an honest seeker seeks The One Who is honest, and trusts that His Word is Truth, which Word warns us against following doctrines of demons. Greater understanding, wisdom and even the deep treasures of God are only given to those who've placed their trust in Him, not in their own understanding or in false gods or demonic doctrines.
 

Aimiel

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Clue Sale Starts @ 4:00 AM Tomorrow!!!

Clue Sale Starts @ 4:00 AM Tomorrow!!!

Aimiel is where he needs to be at this point in this life. When he's ready for more, the universe will be ready to provide it.
The universe? The very stars of the heavens will be rolled up as a scroll and put in a drawer, when The Lord is done with them.

And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. -- Isaiah 34:4

And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: they shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; and as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail. -- Hebrews 1:10-12

The Truth is revealed to us by The Spirit of God, not by demons.

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. -- I Corinthians 2:9-12

You think that you have seen truth in the UB, when all you have seen is a demon, pretending to be an angel of light. You know nothing of God. Your knowledge is earthly, and corrupt.
 

JWStipple

New member
The opinions that are biased are those of you who've read the nonsense and are fooled into believing that it's anywhere near being true. Truth is: it's channeled by demonic forces, and that isn't up for debate. That's a plain and simple fact which you've decided to ignore.

Truth is channeled by demonic forces? Lol.

'Higher' cosmic insight provided by demonic doctrine isn't a good thing.

Ahhh...so, if anything outside the Bible agrees with the Bible, it's bad?

The problem is, there's just enough truth in those writings to make you think that the whole is Truth.

Are you describing the Bible?

The Truth isn't represented in the UB.

Then it isn't represented in the Bible, either.

One could claim that pigs can fly, too. Doesn't make it so.

So...if you claim the Bible is true, it doesn't make it so?

No, an honest seeker seeks The One Who is honest, and trusts that His Word is Truth, which Word warns us against following doctrines of demons.

You sound like a demon to me, Aimiel.
 

JWStipple

New member
You think that you have seen truth in the UB, when all you have seen is a demon, pretending to be an angel of light. You know nothing of God. Your knowledge is earthly, and corrupt.

So...are you infallible, Aimiel? How long have you been a member of Westboro Baptist Church?

What has your belief given you that you did not have before you became a believer?
 
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