The Late Great Urantia Revelation

[Gurucam]

Jesus preached his original gospel to the Jews and others; salvation by faith leading to ongoing spiritual transformation and growth. Real salvation.

That gospel was rejected by pig headed religious authority, he was killed, subsequently raising a likeness of himself from the dead.

Being killed and resurrected from the dead became Pauls "new gospel" about Jesus, of human sacrifice to atone for mans sins; Theoretical salvation.

Im a disciple of Jesus and practice his original gospel.

Do you recognize two gospels of Jesus? One you called the original and another one called "new gospel" about Jesus, of human sacrifice to atone for mans sins; Theoretical salvation.?

It would be interesting if you would add clarity to what you have posted.

I perceive that Jesus left two distinctively different gospel. One that is anchored on law and the other without law.

Is your post the substance of "The late great Urantia Revelation"?

Or are the ideas which you posted, your perceptions of revelations in the KJV N.T.? If so, it seems inappropriate to discuss this here on this thread.

At any event what does your post mean?

Your post, as it stand above, seems to be 'rhetorical nonsense' or at best 'rhetorical confusion'. What indeed are you seeking to convey?

 

[Caino]

Do you recognize two gospels of Jesus? One you called the original and another one called "new gospel" about Jesus, of human sacrifice to atone for mans sins; Theoretical salvation.?

It would be interesting if you would add clarity to what you have posted.

I perceive that Jesus left two distinctively different gospel. One that is anchored on law and the other without law.

Is your post the substance of "The late great Urantia Revelation"?

Or are the ideas which you posted, your perceptions of revelations in the KJV N.T.? If so, it seems inappropriate to discuss this here on this thread.

At any event what does your post mean?

Your post, as it stand above, seems to be 'rhetorical nonsense' or at best 'rhetorical confusion'. What indeed are you seeking to convey?

* Jesus and his apostles preached his gospel of salvation by faith to the Jews 3+ years before the cross. He called it "The Gospel of The Kingdom of Heaven."

but the Jews and others rejected his original gospel​

* The Pagan world was found receptive to a new variation and interpretation of Jesus.

* After the resurrection a new gospel appeared, "Christ and him crucified". The old gospel of spiritual rebirth and personal transformation was replaced by belief that man is forgiven because Jesus was a human sacrifice, a theoretical idea already held by the Pagans.


* Remnants of the old gospel + Paul's new uneducated speculation = a new religion about Jesus.

 

[freelight]

repentance and surrender to God is the way......

repentance and surrender to God is the way......

Jesus is NOT described in Urantia. The god in there is Jebus, a false god that doesn't even exist. Jesus shed His Blood at Calvary so that men might have eternal life. Jebus, of Urantia, is a figment of a demon's imagination. Jesus is The Living Word, Who lives in me and in every true believer who follows Him. His Life continues not only in Heaven but through us. We are His Ambassadors in this life and in the life to come in Heaven. Those who follow Jebus don't have any life in them.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Without Jesus' Blood there is no remission of sins.

For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

All 'symbolic',...we've covered this many times before here and elsewhere

The core teaching of Jesus and his original disciples was to 'repent, and receive the good news of the kingdom,....that's what Part 4 of the papers is all about, besides descriptions of the spiritual process and transformation of the soul along the path of eternal progression.

There is no magical power in any blood, beyond the natural forces in it which maintain the physical life of the flesh or what faith or belief invests in it, by some symbolic token or religious allegory. Repentance is still the way, and has always been within the scriptures, even if primitive blood-sacrifices were instituted by men believing them to have some atoning value. Such do not guarantee repentance or a transformation of man within.




pj

 

[freelight]

Thanks for the response.

I do not quite know how to response, except to say that humans on earth can access the spirit realm, in real time (even when they are in their physical bodies).

The spirit reality is the force field of all possibilities. It is anchored on probability and not on fixed determinant results. (It seems to be the quantum field, as described by Modern Physicists) Simultaneously the spirit reality is the matrix of the physical creation. It under lie and surround and create and sustain the physical reality. Therefore one who is aware of the spirit level can operate from the spirit level and can create on earth any material result which he wants.

Sure within certain limitations as far as the law of manifestation works, with the right conditions to bring such creations forth. All conscious beings are engaging in a process of co-creation with-in The Creation.

However, if one operates on his own to do so one can run into opposition (from God and humans) to one's efforts and so accrue friction, 'sin' and/or failure.

The aim of the Lord Jesus was to enable humans who are spiritually aware to materialize (without exception) their every and any idea, belief, interests, need, desire and aspiration which is in their own spirit, on earth, without friction of any kind but in perfect harmony with God and his fellow humans. This is the Christian life style. This is enlightenment in Christ.

Jesus does assist us in our spiritual evolution, progress, and unfolding of inner faculties, sure.

Jesus enables this approach to life on earth by existing (eternally) in His Spirit body, as the Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Intercession. Those who can commune with the Lord Jesus in His Spirit format in the spirit realm can be led into all their works by Him and achieve the above sinless and heavenly life style, on earth and else where. This is achieved through divine organization by the Lord Jesus, operating, from the spirit realm, as the Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Intercession.

All spirits in unity with Holy Spirit commune with that Spirit, yes.

It is not that other spirit based approaches to life is not available. It is simply that there can hardly be a spirit approach to life which come close to the one offered by the Lord Jesus by operating as the Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Intercession.


However there might just be another better one so, the question arises:

What then, if any thing, does the 'Urantia' papers offers that is comparable to above? That is, in terms of usefulness to humans on earth (i.e. in such a perfectly profound, perfectly harmonious and perfectly total manner)?

The UB is over 2,000 pages of information,...it says plenty and more than the Bible on the complexity of the human soul, its relation to the thought-adjuster, how these unique inter-actions and associations work together in the spiritual unfoldment and psychic development of the soul, the place that 'personality' has within the soul's growth, and yet undiscovered realms beyond this dimension, when a soul becomes 'immortal' and continues its universe service.

This is not to say that there is no bigger and more more profound truths in the creation. It is simply that the aim of the Lord Jesus was to bring his followers to Enlightenment in Christ, which is to deliver those who follow Him in His Spiritual, Son of God format into the status of 'living-liberated', first as humans in physical bodies on earth and then as living liberated humans as angles in the spirit realm.

Well, Jesus had his own teaching as we have it in the gospels, and other non-canonical works, so these 'vary', depending on how schools or disciples interpreted his words and carried on his ministry, putting their own 'spin' on things, as was inevitable. Paul came along and certainly exalted and paraded his own gospel with a spiritual Jesus, a cosmic-redeemer figure (a living Spirit), since his letters show he was unfamiliar with the basic details of the earthly Jesus which the gospels go into fine detail. If you want to call his gospel the 'spiritualized Christ' gospel, that may fit, while some came later in the writing of the gospels and portrayed a more human earthly Jesus, who was true to the basic fundamentals of Judaism, the law and the prophets, although innovating or changing a few precepts here and there, bringing clarity, new meaning or emphasis to old concepts...introducing some new ones.

Christianity is so profoundly and boundlessly beautiful. Such a great and perfect gift to humanity. However it has been totally corrupted by most everyone who venture to say the slightest thing about it. Indeed only the chosen few know the true beauty and supremacy of Christianity.

Yes,...pure religion, embodying the principles of goodness, truth and beauty that Jesus did, is boundlessly beautiful, since its of the Spirit and fosters the divine potentials and attributes of Spirit in the human soul, immortalizing them, if the soul chooses to do God's will, and love God with his whole being....letting the divine have its way.



pj

 

[Gurucam]

* Jesus and his apostles preached his gospel of salvation by faith to the Jews 3+ years before the cross. He called it "The Gospel of The Kingdom of Heaven."

but the Jews and others rejected his original gospel​

* The Pagan world was found receptive to a new variation and interpretation of Jesus.

* After the resurrection a new gospel appeared, "Christ and him crucified". The old gospel of spiritual rebirth and personal transformation was replaced by belief that man is forgiven because Jesus was a human sacrifice, a theoretical idea already held by the Pagans.


* Remnants of the old gospel + Paul's new uneducated speculation = a new religion about Jesus.

Your conclusions are not supported by the KJV N.T.

Where did you get your ideas about what was taught before and after the crucifixion of Lord Jesus?

Are these ideas the substance of "The late great Urantia papers/Revelation"?

 

[Gurucam]

Sure within certain limitations as far as the law of manifestation works, with the right conditions to bring such creations forth. All conscious beings are engaging in a process of co-creation with-in The Creation.

The above was your reply to:

Thanks for the response.

I do not quite know how to response, except to say that humans on earth can access the spirit realm, in real time (even when they are in their physical bodies).

The spirit reality is the force field of all possibilities. It is anchored on probability and not on fixed determinant results. (It seems to be the quantum field, as described by Modern Physicists) Simultaneously the spirit reality is the matrix of the physical creation. It under lie and surround and create and sustain the physical reality. Therefore one who is aware of the spirit level can operate from the spirit level and can create on earth any material result which he wants.

Your reply seems dismissive. It is confirmed in Modern and Quantum Science and spiritual traditions, that all physical things are created and sustained by forces/spirits.

It is proven that interventions at the level of the force or spirit which underlie and surround a physical thing can and do bring about directly related changes to that thing at the physical level. This is all that I am seeking to confirm.

I cannot connect how your reply, "Sure within certain limitations as far as the law of manifestation works, with the right conditions to bring such creations forth. All conscious beings are engaging in a process of co-creation with-in The Creation." connects to my statement.

Is it not well establish that interventions at the level of spirits or forces of physical things does in fact create corresponding changes in the physical aspect of those things?

Also it is confirmed in Quantum Mechanic that the predictable behavior as defined by Newtonian law (i.e. to every action there is a predictable result) does not operated at the deeper quantum level. Atg the quantum or spirit level, all possible out come or reality are simply probabilities (i.e. any possible probable outcome or reality can be obtained simply by focusing on the desired result). There is absolutely no concept of taking a (particular correct) action to obtain a particular result. At this level what one want one simply gets, effortlessly. One simply drop one's wish at the spirit level and it materializes at the physical level. (Is this clear enough.)

This means that at the gross material level, behavior obey the law of karma (i.e. what one sows one reaps). However at the finer (spirit or quantum) level this law of karma does not operate. Instead by simply focusing at the spirit or quantum level, on a particular outcome, that outcome materializes ion the physical level without making any physical action.

Additionally, by operating at the spirit or force level one can literally cancel a coming action that was precipitated by a solely physical action, at the gross material level. One does not have to receive the karma of one's past action. One can be forgiven for a transgression and not have to get or face the bad or any other karma for a past action. That is, one sin can be forgiven, without regard for the "what one sow one will reap" law of karma.

At the spirit of quantum level, one simply focus on what one wants and one create that reality in the physical realm.

This is a very real way of creating and sustaining the life which one want at the gross material/physical level, simply by holding the idea of it at the spirit or quantum level.

Additionally this also defines and enables the concept of forgiveness of sin which is the anchor of authentic Christianity. This system operates at a more profound level than the level where 'what one sows one reaps, operates. However there is more which one must know and achieve before one can achieve a sinless life under this spirit based approach to life. I am custodian of this information.

However at any event, this life is very possible for the spiritually aware. This is the anchor of Christianity which is a spiritual tradition and not at all a religious/physical tradition.

 

[freelight]

If u want to know what a book teaches, READ IT

If u want to know what a book teaches, READ IT

Your conclusions are not supported by the KJV N.T.

I guess a tangelo is also different from a 'tangerine', but still in the same family :idunno:

As shared before, we have threads that treat the KJV and the cult mentality of the extreme KJ Only community. When considering the NT, we look at all available manuscripts and translations to come to the best interpretation of that collection of books. Otherwise, the NT itself does not necessarily claim to be 'perfect', let alone 'God's final or absolute word', since it was canonized and 'crafted' by man. This goes for all religious writings or 'scriptures' to a certain extent, we finding the inner esoteric meanings of such works, as having some 'value' as communicating certain truths, principles, ethics, relationships, etc.

Where did you get your ideas about what was taught before and after the crucifixion of Lord Jesus?

Read your 4 gospels and see for yourself. The gospels are considered to have been later than the letters of Paul,...and Paul wrote little about the human life of Jesus, or his actual teachings. So, in the inter-rim when the gospels were being written decades later, room for embellishment was possible, to the point of even putting words in Jesus mouth. For instance, the 'Eucharist' at least from a more pagan perspective (eating flesh/drinking blood) could have originated more with Paul, incorporating his 'blood-atonement for sins' doctrine, and written into the gospel accounts, even if Jesus did have some kind of 'thanksgiving meal' to remember the special fellowship of he and his disciples, but not necessarily implying an underlying concept of vicarious blood atonement. We've covered this elsewhere.

Are these ideas the substance of "The late great Urantia papers/Revelation"?

Again,....there is the OP, resource links and HUNDREDS of pages of dialogue here if you're interested in getting answers to your questions, which have already been elaborated. Use the 'search thread' function to find these subject in the thread, or better yet read the UB for yourself, which is readily available.

If you want to read Jesus teachings go to Part 4. Jesus teaches the same essential truths about the kingdom of heaven there, as he does in the gospels, but further expanded in detail, according to the higher cosmic view of this group of revelators. Like any given 'revelation', such as Paul claimed for himself by bringing in "his own gospel" based on his personal visionary experiences or spiritual insights,...the world abounds with other noteworthy revelations as well, which are given to humanity at different time-points or dispensations. Hence the papers are called 'The 5th epochal revelation' to this planet,....Jesus incarnation (bestowal) was the 4th.



pj

 

[freelight]

God is Spirit.............

God is Spirit.............

Your reply seems dismissive. It is confirmed in Modern and Quantum Science and spiritual traditions, that all physical things are created and sustained by forces/spirits.

It is proven that interventions at the level of the force or spirit which underlie and surround a physical thing can and do bring about directly related changes to that thing at the physical level. This is all that I am seeking to confirm.

It did not dismiss the influence of invisible forces on the visible world, neither discount the co-creative process of manifesting things in the physical world.

I cannot connect how your reply, "Sure within certain limitations as far as the law of manifestation works, with the right conditions to bring such creations forth. All conscious beings are engaging in a process of co-creation with-in The Creation." connects to my statement.

It does,....many forces, powers, elements work within the stream of consciousness affecting ones experience of life, in substance and form.

Is it not well establish that interventions at the level of spirits or forces of physical things does in fact create corresponding changes in the physical aspect of those things?

Also it is confirmed in Quantum Mechanic that the predictable behavior as defined by Newtonian law (i.e. to every action there is a predictable result) does not operated at the deeper quantum level. Atg the quantum or spirit level, all possible out come or reality are simply probabilities (i.e. any possible probable outcome or reality can be obtained simply by focusing on the desired result). There is absolutely no concept of taking a (particular correct) action to obtain a particular result. At this level what one want one simply gets, effortlessly. One simply drop one's wish at the spirit level and it materializes at the physical level. (Is this clear enough.)

This means that at the gross material level, behavior obey the law of karma (i.e. what one sows one reaps). However at the finer (spirit or quantum) level this law of karma does not operate. Instead by simply focusing at the spirit or quantum level, on a particular outcome, that outcome materializes ion the physical level without making any physical action.

Additionally, by operating at the spirit or force level one can literally cancel a coming action that was precipitated by a solely physical action, at the gross material level. One does not have to receive the karma of one's past action. One can be forgiven for a transgression and not have to get or face the bad or any other karma for a past action. That is, one sin can be forgiven, without regard for the "what one sow one will reap" law of karma.

At the spirit of quantum level, one simply focus on what one wants and one create that reality in the physical realm.

This is a very real way of creating and sustaining the life which one want at the gross material/physical level, simply by holding the idea of it at the spirit or quantum level.

Additionally this also defines and enables the concept of forgiveness of sin which is the anchor of authentic Christianity. This system operates at a more profound level than the level where 'what one sows one reaps, operates. However there is more which one must know and achieve before one can achieve a sinless life under this spirit based approach to life. I am custodian of this information.

However at any event, this life is very possible for the spiritually aware. This is the anchor of Christianity which is a spiritual tradition and not at all a religious/physical tradition.

Again, as a metaphysician myself, anyone would be dumbfounded if I denied the inner workings of spirit or consciousness behind creation and all its movements. If you'd like to start a thread on this subject in particular it might be advantageous for you, since this thread is already so large and established, as for having already covered so much about the UB and how it relates to other theological traditions, having its own unique terms and explanations of individual spiritual development as well as continuous cosmic creation.

1:3.3 The Universal Father is not invisible because he is hiding himself away from the lowly creatures of materialistic handicaps and limited spiritual endowments. The situation rather is: “You cannot see my face, for no mortal can see me and live.” No material man could behold the spirit God and preserve his mortal existence. The glory and the spiritual brilliance of the divine personality presence is impossible of approach by the lower groups of spirit beings or by any order of material personalities. The spiritual luminosity of the Father’s personal presence is a “light which no mortal man can approach; which no material creature has seen or can see.” But it is not necessary to see God with the eyes of the flesh in order to discern him by the faith-vision of the spiritualized mind. - UB

101:9.3 True religion is that sublime and profound conviction within the soul which compellingly admonishes man that it would be wrong for him not to believe in those morontial* realities which constitute his highest ethical and moral concepts, his highest interpretation of life's greatest values and the universe's deepest realities. And such a religion is simply the experience of yielding intellectual loyalty to the highest dictates of spiritual consciousness. - UB

* morontial: a term denoting that condition of being inbetween the physical and the spiritual, that realm inter-connecting and 'intermediate' therein. A step higher into pure spirit-reality, would include the condition and nature of pure spirit being, that towards which all evolutionary mortals are aspiring.




pj

 

[freelight]

Only One Being being...............

Only One Being being...............

Jesus in us brings us into agreement with His Spirit and with one another... insofar as we truly are in agreement with Him.

Of course, since there is only One Universal Spirit. God is Spirit.

Now as to what you refer to as 'being in agreement with Him', is a formulation of your own religious concepts and interpretations of what Jesus supposedly said, or what is believed to be true.

Still,...there is only One Universal Spirit, who is 'God',...the First Source and Center of all reality (the Universal Father). - all 'else' proceeding from this original Infinity-source...is 'related' as offspring of this Infinite One....whether it is an 'emenation' or 'hierarchal procession' from 'God',...it remains an extension, expansion, expression, distribution, creation of 'God', hence the various orders of divine Sons, angels, cosmic beings, spirit-souls, all life-forms within the spectrum of evolving creation.

The One Source includes all substance and forms.




pj

 

[Caino]

Your conclusions are not supported by the KJV N.T.

Where did you get your ideas about what was taught before and after the crucifixion of Lord Jesus?

Are these ideas the substance of "The late great Urantia papers/Revelation"?

The fact that Jesus taught a gospel to the Jews and Paul taught "Christ and him crucified" is in the bible. One doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to see that. But because Christians get the story about Jesus through Rome after the cross, they aparently cannot see that there was an original gospel.

 

[Charity]

Hi,
@:;€¥##, when I read this scripture below By john - either sitting up in heaven or on bar stool watching - john explains - peter (who is johns compitition for the right side of Jesus) that-
Peter is out run by the other apostals, - what ever faith mary Peter an the others disciples are, they clearly don't have any what would call pre Christian knowledge or teaching from Jesus of a resurrection! Christians could be floored By words
-one needs to perceive the position of john - to report his personal eye witness version. Least the large picture would reveal he was consumnrd by jealousy concerning peter!
Johns loyalty to the other disciples seems clear - he has made them ignorant / unprepared, an himself spirtual enought to capture the lead John is not allowing the reader the knowledge of his whereabouts at the time, filled with information he is not revealing wither he was also ignorant about a resurrection hence he reveals his goal when opens his mouth an begins-he john - to preach john 1-1,2 inforcing that which Jesus was chastened an destroyed for by the Romans- Jesus is God- hence preached by the Roman catholic, JOHN being the first evident Pope.

How Christian is Christian today - an how many times dose he need repeat Peter was a loser!
Verily verily john said- off Mary an they!!!
Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.

Jhn 20:3
Peter therefore went forth, and that other disciple, and came to the sepulchre.

Jhn 20:4
So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre.

Jhn 20:5
And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in.

Jhn 20:6
Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie,

Jhn 20:7
And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.

Jhn 20:8
Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.

Jhn 20:9
For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.-
verily verily who REALY turned Jesus in to the romans, WHO REALY BETRAYED HIM?
scripture had plenty of time to be changed, The cut off from the living can't rebuke what is written about them..1500 years of looted books hidden in Vatican City- before the temptation of the printing press gold rush.

 

[journey]

I thought that the Urantia BALONEY was ended by the Administrator of TOL.

 

[Caino]

Hi,
@:;€¥##, when I read this scripture below By john - either sitting up in heaven or on bar stool watching - john explains - peter (who is johns compitition for the right side of Jesus) that-
Peter is out run by the other apostals, - what ever faith mary Peter an the others disciples are, they clearly don't have any what would call pre Christian knowledge or teaching from Jesus of a resurrection! Christians could be floored By words
-one needs to perceive the position of john - to report his personal eye witness version. Least the large picture would reveal he was consumnrd by jealousy concerning peter!
Johns loyalty to the other disciples seems clear - he has made them ignorant / unprepared, an himself spirtual enought to capture the lead John is not allowing the reader the knowledge of his whereabouts at the time, filled with information he is not revealing wither he was also ignorant about a resurrection hence he reveals his goal when opens his mouth an begins-he john - to preach john 1-1,2 inforcing that which Jesus was chastened an destroyed for by the Romans- Jesus is God- hence preached by the Roman catholic, JOHN being the first evident Pope.

How Christian is Christian today - an how many times dose he need repeat Peter was a loser!
Verily verily john said- off Mary an they!!!
Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.

Jhn 20:3
Peter therefore went forth, and that other disciple, and came to the sepulchre.

Jhn 20:4
So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre.

Jhn 20:5
And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in.

Jhn 20:6
Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie,

Jhn 20:7
And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.

Jhn 20:8
Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.

Jhn 20:9
For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.-
verily verily who REALY turned Jesus in to the romans, WHO REALY BETRAYED HIM?
scripture had plenty of time to be changed, The cut off from the living can't rebuke what is written about them..1500 years of looted books hidden in Vatican City- before the temptation of the printing press gold rush.

Hi Charity, so nice to see you again. :roses:

 

[Caino]

Mattew 9:35​

"Jesus was going through all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness. Seeing the people, He felt compassion for them, because they were distressed and dispirited like sheep without a shepherd".…​

The gospel today about the cross isn't the gospel that Jesus was teaching in the synagogues.

 

[Gurucam]

Sure within certain limitations as far as the law of manifestation works, with the right conditions to bring such creations forth. All conscious beings are engaging in a process of co-creation with-in The Creation.

My difficulty continue to be with the above original statement.

The following questions arise:

What is the law of manifestation? Indeed what law does manifestation use?

What are the limitations of which you speak?

What are right conditions to bring forth such creation?

Who or what are these conscious being who are engaging in a process of co-creation with-in The Creation?

It is not reasonable to let you simply drop that statement and move to your other point.

I cannot adequately discern what you are seeking to convey. Before moving on can you fully explain what you mean by the above?

Are you speaking from your own awareness of these are are you simply repeating what you have read and/or heard?

The terms which you use convey different meanings to different people. You must fully define your terms before I can get your message.

Are you using these terms according to their meaning in "The Late Great Urantia Revelation"?

It seems foolish to simply say O.K. or no to the above very or overly simplified statement and let you move to the next point. I have to get a more reasonable and clear understanding of what you are seeking to say. No doubt these are the basis of your continuing commentary.

 

[Gurucam]

Mattew 9:35​

"Jesus was going through all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness. Seeing the people, He felt compassion for them, because they were distressed and dispirited like sheep without a shepherd".…​

The gospel today about the cross isn't the gospel that Jesus was teaching in the synagogues.

Dear Caino,

At the above times Jesus did not deliver the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven. The preaching of the gospel of the kingdom is not the delivery of the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven.

The critical thing is to be given to know the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven and actually getting the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven. Simply being told or preached to, about the kingdom is not enough. Simply being told or preached to, about the kingdom is a kind of consolation. It was telling them about a kingdom which they were not yet capable of entering. But which was inevitably going to reign on earth. It was probably a wake up call for these unfortunate people.

This was the way Jesus dealt with those who were not given by God to know the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven. However the actual mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven were simultaneously given to only a chosen few. These were (only) his disciples. Indeed, Jesus (the son of man) did confirm the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven to only his disciples. And he did so only in very private session among only them. The reason for this is that only they (the disciples) were given by God to know the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven. No one else were given to know these mysteries.

Everyone else got parables. That is, all Jesus preachings in the cities and villages were parables. These did not contain even the slightest hint of the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven. All these masses of people were not given to know the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven. They did not have the spiritual actualization (i.e. they did not have intuitive/spiritual hearing etc.) to get this knowledge. Jesus could not and did not confirm the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven to them. All they got were parables. Parables were not intended in any way to give even the slightest hint of the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven. At best these people were simply told about the kingdom. They were not told about how to get to God's kingdom of heaven.

No doubt you recognize that to know about the kingdom is quite different from knowing the mysteries of (or to) God's kingdom of heaven. To know the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven one must be spiritually aware and intuitively functional (i.e. one must have the 'eyes to see' and the 'ears to hear' and the 'hearts to understand'). It is not at all a matter of physical hearing and physical reading. It is not at all a matter of being told about the kingdom, by the son of man, Jesus or anyone else for that matter.

Parable were given to people who were not given by God to know the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven. In fact parables were given to people who had very little and parables were given with the intention of taking from them the little which they had. Fact is people can come to know the mysteries of God kingdom only intuitively, directly, personally and privately from the Spirit, Son of God Jesus though their spiritual intuitive faculties of 'the eyes to see', 'the ears to hears' and 'the hearts to understand'. This is totally outside of physical hearing and physical reading.

The entire written KJV N.T. is nothing but an instruction manual about how to get to know the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven. To a spiritually aware person (and/or a truth and Truth seeking person) it has absolutely no value beyond this.

Fact is All Truth comes only privately, individually and personally from the Spirit of Truth, through an intuitive connection between each person's own spirit and the Spirit of the Lord Jesus, in real time, all the time. Only this "All Truth" saves and delivers one. It is gotten only directly, privately, individually and intuitively/spiritually from the Spirit of truth/Spirit of Jesus. All Truth is different for each person. It is personalized and individualized guidance. It cannot and does not come through physical spoken and physically written words. It is not any kind of collective and generalized ideals or laws (like the Ten Commandments etc.).

This is the final mystery of God's kingdom of heaven, as confirmed by the son of man, Jesus to his disciples in the final private moment among only them. This was just before he was crucified and rose to heaven. However long before this (much earlier) Jesus confirmed the following:

Matthews: 13 KJV N.T.
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

If you are seeking truth and Truth (i.e. including the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven) seek out and recognize only those few deliveries which Jesus made in very private sessions among only his disciples. Parables were given everywhere else and to everyone else and these were not in any way intended to convey the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven. And they did not contain the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven. To rely on those public deliveries for the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven, is to be anchored on straws. Is to be totally misled. You will err and not be chosen.

 

[Caino]

Caino,

At the above times Jesus did not deliver the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven. The preaching of the gospel of the kingdom is not the delivery of the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven.

The critical thing is to be given to know the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven. Simply being told or preached to, about the kingdom is not enough.

Fact is Jesus (the son of man) did not confirm the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven to anyone other than his disciples. And he did so only in very private session among only them.

Everyone else got parables. That is, all Jesus preachings in the cities and villages were parables. These did not contain even the slightest hint of the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven. All these masses of people were not given to know the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven. They did not have the spiritual actualization (i.e. they did not have intuitive/spiritual hearing etc.) to get this knowledge. Jesus could not and did not confirm the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven to them. All they got were parables.

Parable were given to people who were not given by God to know the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven. In fact parables were given to people who had very little with the intention of taking from them the little which they had.



If you are seeking Truth seek out and recognize only those few deliveries which Jesus made in very private sessions among only his disciples.

Parables were given everywhere else and to everyone else and these were not in any way intended to convey the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven. And they did not contain the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven.

To rely on those public deliveries for the mysteries of God's kingdom of heaven, is to be anchored on straws. Is to be totally misled.

Jesus preached the original gospel, some heard, believed and were saved. The gospel wasn't parables, rather parables were aknowlogies of the kingdom of heaven. The new gospel of christiandom became the cross.

 

[Gurucam]

Jesus preached the original gospel, some heard, believed and were saved. The gospel wasn't parables, rather parables were aknowlogies of the kingdom of heaven. The new gospel of christiandom became the cross.

Seems that in those cities and villages, Jesus did not preach any thing which a seeker of truth and Truth could actually use. I would suggest that you do not get carried away with those public deliveries which Jesus, the son of man made.

At any event, since you perceive my conclusion to be wrong, the next question is singular and quite simple. What do you perceive to be the message in the following (which is the source of my claim):

Matthews: 13 KJV N.T.
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

 

[Caino]

Seems that in those cities and villages, Jesus did not preach any thing which a seeker of truth and Truth could actually use. I would suggest that you do not get carried away with those public deliveries which Jesus, the son of man made.

At any event, since you perceive my conclusion to be wrong, the next question is singular and quite simple. What do you perceive to be the message in the following (which is the source of my claim):

Jesus would use parables while teaching publicly to weed out the sincere truth seeker from those who were not seeking the truth. Parabolic teaching conveys great truths with the least arosal of antagonism in the mind of the hearer.

 

[freelight]

discussion.......

discussion.......

I thought that the Urantia BALONEY was ended by the Administrator of TOL.

Many different subjects are discussed here, while most are relating to the UB....not all are. Knight has allowed this one thread on the subject, limiting it thereby. Since the UB covers the subject of 'religion' extensively....it is appropriate in the more liberal venue of philosophy and cosmology. As far as 'baloney' goes....you've got alot of that elsewhere within the diverse and varied denominations within Christendom, differing on various points of doctrine, so theres plenty a sandwich plate from which to choose from.

Those interested in actual discussion or dialogue are welcome to engage, since any 'revelation' stands or falls on its own truth, meaning and value as it relates to the greater context of existence. A seeker of truth has the courage to take on ideas, concepts and principles...investigating all things for himself, discovering what is true, possible or consistent on his own. Dare to think for yourself.




pj