The Gospel Verses Predestination

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Nope. Your god, made in your own image like Jeraboam did, is weak and unable to reconcile all humanity. Your god is a collasal failure.
The God of Creation reconciles all His chosen people to Himself. Not one is left unreconciled.
Your heresy is great, Robert.


You apparently are an unbeliever. You don't believe that God has reconciled us and the world unto himself by Jesus Christ.

"God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself" 2 Corinthians 5:19.

This is the heart of the Gospel message preached by Paul. To not believe this is to not believe the Gospel. To not believe the Gospel is the rejection of Jesus Christ. To reject what Christ has done to provide salvation for the whole world is to sentence yourself to eternal damnation.

"And having made peace through the blood of his cross by him to RECONCILE ALL THINGS unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven" Colossians 1:20.

No one needs to be predestinate because God has ALREADY reconciled the whole world unto himself by Jesus Christ. Salvation has been provided for EVERYONE, Hebrews 2:9. It is God's great free gift for everyone, Romans 5:15-18.
 

MennoSota

New member
You apparently are an unbeliever. You don't believe that God has reconciled us and the world unto himself by Jesus Christ.

"God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself" 2 Corinthians 5:19.

This is the heart of the Gospel message preached by Paul. To not believe this is to not believe the Gospel. To not believe the Gospel is the rejection of Jesus Christ. To reject what Christ has done to provide salvation for the whole world is to sentence yourself to eternal damnation.

"And having made peace through the blood of his cross by him to RECONCILE ALL THINGS unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven" Colossians 1:20.

No one needs to be predestinate because God has ALREADY reconciled the whole world unto himself by Jesus Christ. Salvation has been provided for EVERYONE, Hebrews 2:9. It is God's great free gift for everyone, Romans 5:15-18.

God reconciles those whom He makes alive in Christ Jesus. Not all people are made alive in Christ Jesus. Many, like you, are dead in their trespasses and sins. You have no part in Christ.
Your idol god is weak and useless. It is not the God of the Bible.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
God reconciles those whom He makes alive in Christ Jesus. Not all people are made alive in Christ Jesus. Many, like you, are dead in their trespasses and sins. You have no part in Christ.
Your idol god is weak and useless. It is not the God of the Bible.


The Bible teaches that people are made alive in Christ when they hear and believe the Gospel.

"In whom you also trusted, after that you heard the word of truth, THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION: in whom also after that YOU BELIEVED, YOU WERE SEALED with that Holy Spirit of promise" Ephesians 1:13.

To receive the Holy Spirit you must be born again by the word of God, which is the Gospel, 1 Peter 1:23. God does not just zap people with the Holy Spirit. You must hear and believe the Gospel.

"Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (because you did something) or by the hearing of faith" (hearing and believing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.

I am not dead in trespasses and sins. In Jesus Christ I have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30. God now sees me as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

You need to renounce Calvinism and trust in Christ alone.
 

MennoSota

New member
The Bible teaches that people are made alive in Christ when they hear and believe the Gospel.

"In whom you also trusted, after that you heard the word of truth, THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION: in whom also after that YOU BELIEVED, YOU WERE SEALED with that Holy Spirit of promise" Ephesians 1:13.

To receive the Holy Spirit you must be born again by the word of God, which is the Gospel, 1 Peter 1:23. God does not just zap people with the Holy Spirit. You must hear and believe the Gospel.

"Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (because you did something) or by the hearing of faith" (hearing and believing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.

I am not dead in trespasses and sins. In Jesus Christ I have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30. God now sees me as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

You need to renounce Calvinism and trust in Christ alone.
Here's what is taught.
Ephesians 2:1-10
[1]Once you were dead because of your disobedience and your many sins.
[2]You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil—the commander of the powers in the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God.
[3]All of us used to live that way, following the passionate desires and inclinations of our sinful nature. By our very nature we were subject to God’s anger, just like everyone else.
[4]But God is so rich in mercy, and he loved us so much,
[5]that even though we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. (It is only by God’s grace that you have been saved!)
[6]For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus.
[7]So God can point to us in all future ages as examples of the incredible wealth of his grace and kindness toward us, as shown in all he has done for us who are united with Christ Jesus.
[8]God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God.
[9]Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it.
[10]For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.
Dead men cannot hear unless God gives them life.
Dead men cannot believe unless God gives them life.
Face it, Robert, you cannot save yourself by your own choices or by conjuring up your own belief. The Bible tells you this, yet I suspect you will desperately attempt your own means anyway. You will, as always, miss the mark and remain dead.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
The Bible teaches that people are made alive in Christ when they hear and believe the Gospel.

"In whom you also trusted, after that you heard the word of truth, THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION: in whom also after that YOU BELIEVED, YOU WERE SEALED with that Holy Spirit of promise" Ephesians 1:13.

To receive the Holy Spirit you must be born again by the word of God, which is the Gospel, 1 Peter 1:23. God does not just zap people with the Holy Spirit. You must hear and believe the Gospel.

"Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (because you did something) or by the hearing of faith" (hearing and believing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.

I am not dead in trespasses and sins. In Jesus Christ I have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30. God now sees me as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

You need to renounce Calvinism and trust in Christ alone.
People who believe and teach that sinners Christ died for are still lost cant believe the Gospel!

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JudgeRightly

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People who believe and teach that sinners Christ died for are still lost cant believe the Gospel!

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Ya know, repeatedly asserting your position doesn't make you correct. In fact, it's a logical fallacy.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
People who believe and teach that sinners Christ died for are still lost cant believe the Gospel!

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O foolish B57, who has bewitched you, that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ has evidently set forth, crucified for you, Galatians 3:1.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Here's what is taught.
Ephesians 2:1-10
[1]Once you were dead because of your disobedience and your many sins.
[2]You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil—the commander of the powers in the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God.
[3]All of us used to live that way, following the passionate desires and inclinations of our sinful nature. By our very nature we were subject to God’s anger, just like everyone else.
[4]But God is so rich in mercy, and he loved us so much,
[5]that even though we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. (It is only by God’s grace that you have been saved!)
[6]For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus.
[7]So God can point to us in all future ages as examples of the incredible wealth of his grace and kindness toward us, as shown in all he has done for us who are united with Christ Jesus.
[8]God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God.
[9]Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it.
[10]For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.
Dead men cannot hear unless God gives them life.
Dead men cannot believe unless God gives them life.
Face it, Robert, you cannot save yourself by your own choices or by conjuring up your own belief. The Bible tells you this, yet I suspect you will desperately attempt your own means anyway. You will, as always, miss the mark and remain dead.


Ephesians 2:1-10 is the results of hearing and believing the Gospel.

"In whom you also trusted after you heard the word of truth, THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION: in whom after that YOU BELIEVED, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise" Ephesians 1:13.

After we hear and believe and receive the Holy Spirit, that is the beginning of our Christian life. That is what Paul is saying in Galatians 2:1-10.

On the day of Pentecost God gave birth to the New Testament church through the preaching of the Gospel. 8,000 Jews heard and believed Peter's Gospel and were born again by the word of God, 1 Peter 1:23.
 

MennoSota

New member
Ephesians 2:1-10 is the results of hearing and believing the Gospel.

"In whom you also trusted after you heard the word of truth, THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION: in whom after that YOU BELIEVED, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise" Ephesians 1:13.

After we hear and believe and receive the Holy Spirit, that is the beginning of our Christian life. That is what Paul is saying in Galatians 2:1-10.

On the day of Pentecost God gave birth to the New Testament church through the preaching of the Gospel. 8,000 Jews heard and believed Peter's Gospel and were born again by the word of God, 1 Peter 1:23.
How does a spiritually dead person hear and believe the Spirit of God? You cannot answer that question without admitting that God must first make them alive in Christ.
Salvation is all of God. You don't choose as though you were shopping in the "gods aisle" at the local Piggly Wiggly.
 

MennoSota

New member
John Bunyan had it right in Pilgrims Progress. God opens the gate and guides Christian to the cross where upon seeing the cross Christians burdens fall off. Until then, Christian could not remove his burden no matter how hard he tried.
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
How does a spiritually dead person hear and believe the Spirit of God? You cannot answer that question without admitting that God must first make them alive in Christ.
Salvation is all of God. You don't choose as though you were shopping in the "gods aisle" at the local Piggly Wiggly.

How does a spiritually dead person hear and believe the Spirit of God?

they hear the gospel and believe
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
How does a spiritually dead person hear and believe the Spirit of God? You cannot answer that question without admitting that God must first make them alive in Christ.
Salvation is all of God. You don't choose as though you were shopping in the "gods aisle" at the local Piggly Wiggly.

When the word of God, which is the Gospel, enters ones ears and they hear and believe, something happens that cannot be explained. The Holy Spirit is present in the preaching of the Gospel. This is why,

"So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17.

Read Acts chapter 2 and you can see the power of the Gospel.

Paul wrote, "For I am not ashamed of the Gospel: FOR IT IS THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION to everyone that believes" Romans 1:17

When one hears and believes the Gospel God seals them with the Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13 and places them "In Christ" Colossians 3:3. They are eternally saved.
 

MennoSota

New member
When the word of God, which is the Gospel, enters ones ears and they hear and believe, something happens that cannot be explained. The Holy Spirit is present in the preaching of the Gospel. This is why,

"So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17.

Read Acts chapter 2 and you can see the power of the Gospel.

Paul wrote, "For I am not ashamed of the Gospel: FOR IT IS THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION to everyone that believes" Romans 1:17

When one hears and believes the Gospel God seals them with the Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13 and places them "In Christ" Colossians 3:3. They are eternally saved.

Indeed, the one whom God has first made alive in Christ will hear and will be given faith. I take no offense to God's word as it is upon God's word that I stand against your heresy.
God chooses whom He wills to make alive. As the Creator, Judge and Sovereign King, it is His right and role to do so. You cannot demand what has never been yours to demand. You simply have no power. God controls your destiny. Your sin demands God's judgment. God is just and right if He condemns you. God is gracious and kind if He chooses to place your guilt upon Jesus who is the propitiation for the elect. You are at God’s mercy. Bow before the one who has the keys of life and death.
 

Ask Mr. Religion

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When the word of God, which is the Gospel, enters ones ears and they hear and believe, something happens that cannot be explained.
It can be and has been explained, Robert. You simply do not like the explanation Scripture affords us.

For example, Eze. 36:26

Which explains why not all that hear the Good News are born anew. It also answers the question "Why you, and not your neighbor?" There is nothing inherently special about the one quickened from death to life such that they will not not believe. They cannot rob God of His glory by making Him a debtor to their wise choice, claiming they were more discerning, more "open" to the truth, more studied than their neighbor, for prior to the regenerative act of God via the efficacious grace of the Holy Spirit, they were at enmity with God and would never want to believe.

Simply stated, God must act firstly. Once quickened (regenerated) the person will believe. Before that instantaneous quickening event, they possess no inherent ability (per your odd notions of free will) to contribute to their own re-birth. When Our Lord stated "you must be born again", He was not telling the rich young ruler what he must do, but what must happen.

AMR
 

Danoh

New member
Not if they are dead. Dead people cannot hear. Dead people cannot believe.
Try again.

The spiritual death there is figurative, it is not, literal.

Case in point...

The Lord

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

King Herod

Acts 12:23 And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.

In both passages, both the Lord and King Herod had been literally alive, spiritually.

Why?

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Though, in the Lord's case...

Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Which is why what is said in the latter part of following verse can only be said...of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

And yet that passage is talking about a literal quickening.

Which the figurative quickening represents.

There is a figurative, and there is a literal...spiritual death.

The Lord's Spirit had been alive both figuratively, and literally.

In contrast, though King Herod's spirit had been alive literally, it had been dead, figuratively.

Ephesians 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: 4:19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

Alive, and yet...dead, in other words - past feeling.

The figuratively dead, then, refers to God's having pronounced one as being alienated from Him.

Which is how we are born: spiritually alive, literally, but spiritually dead, figuratively.

How did we end up this way?

Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

That is a figurative death.

As the very end of Genesis 3 depicts it, it refers to being pronounced basically alienated from God, by Him. We'll see that in a sec...

But notice that Adam is still very much alive after he fails to heed that warning...

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

The result of said figurative death, spiritually, or alienation from God, in Adam's offspring?

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Result?

Note the part of the following after the words "And you hath he quickened, who were..."

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

What is this dead in trespasses and sins?

Can dead men walk?

Apparantly - for the thing is figurative.

2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

In other words, we were by our very nature, alienated from God.

Our best bet was...His pending...wrath!

As far as God was concerned, whenever He looked over at us, His conclusion was "you're dead to Me - I NEVER knew you..." Matthew 7:23.

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

You ever heard that phrase "you're dead to me"?

As when God told Israel...

Ezekiel 23:18 So she discovered her whoredoms, and discovered her nakedness: then my mind was alienated from her, like as my mind was alienated from her sister.

See this?

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

That is the same as this...

Colossians 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

It was His death - in - our - stead - that - was literal.

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Which leads, of course, to my favorite way to end my posts - to glorying in, once more, in...

Romans 5:6-11.

Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

The night of the living...dead.

Figuratively, speaking, that is.

Hmmm, I should have saved this for the end of October.

:chuckle:
 

beloved57

Well-known member
O foolish B57, who has bewitched you, that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ has evidently set forth, crucified for you, Galatians 3:1.
When you teach that sinners Christ died for still perish that's anti gospel.

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beloved57

Well-known member
When the word of God, which is the Gospel, enters ones ears and they hear and believe, something happens that cannot be explained. The Holy Spirit is present in the preaching of the Gospel. This is why,

"So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17.

Read Acts chapter 2 and you can see the power of the Gospel.

Paul wrote, "For I am not ashamed of the Gospel: FOR IT IS THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION to everyone that believes" Romans 1:17

When one hears and believes the Gospel God seals them with the Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13 and places them "In Christ" Colossians 3:3. They are eternally saved.
It's not Gospel to say Christ died for everyone even them that are lost. That deprives Christ death of it's Saving Efficacy.

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