The earth is flat and we never went to the moon

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No Figurative Markers to Support Non-Geocentric Claims in Joshua 10

No Figurative Markers to Support Non-Geocentric Claims in Joshua 10

Sure there is: "stand still" is an anthropomorphism. And we know those never refer to actual reality!
No.

A prayer was offered up for the sun to stand still. The prayer was answered and declared so. The Sun did not appear to stand still to all observers, else we have inspired writers of Scripture writing untruths. The text in question does not pertain to different perspectives in a narrative, but to narration. To claim there is inspired and uninspired speech in the narration is to claim that the penmen were not fully inspired. Such a view as yours undermines the verbal-plenary inspiration of Scripture. Further, there are no literary markers whatsoever in the Johua 10 account that point to metaphors or phenomenology as devices at work.

Those who hold heliocentricity usually avoid the idea of "error" in this passage by saying that the passage is simply accommodated to the way people thought at that time; and now that we are supposed to know better we can understand what is said as speaking according to the senses. On that explanation, though, there is no figure of speech. It is understood to be a literal statement which speaks according to the way the senses perceive things.

You will never be able to say with any degree of certainty that anything is true on the basis that the Bible teaches it while you allow that the Bible accommodates its teaching to the mistaken notions of men. Your doctrine of inspiration is not orthodox so long as you do not consider the suppression of the penmen's errors to be an active part of it. You will simply never know what is absolute truth and what is mere accommodation. Like the liberal, the canon of reason is required to distinguish where Scripture speaks truth and where it accommodates error.

Now if you are saying it is not an accommodation, but that it utilizes figurative language then the figurative language tactic is clearly negated by the fact that Joshua prayed for the sun to stand still, and God answered the prayer in terms of the sun standing still. Again, there are no figurative markers in the text. And, finally, it is clear that external considerations raised by secular science are being thrust upon the interpretation of the text.

Think of the consequences if your possibility was actually entertained. The liberals would have all the justification they need for explaining away the miraculous in the Bible since everyone to whom the Bible was written thought in terms of the miraculous. The Holy Spirit didn't know whether the Earth rotates or not when He inspired this passage? Yikes!

God is the vantage point here. He answered His servant's prayer. If God was simply accommodating Joshua's misconception, then who knows what is true!

AMR
 

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Perspicuity of Scripture

Perspicuity of Scripture

IOW, above average intellect
No.

The perspicuity of Scripture is within the grasp of all persons who devote themselves to its study. Depending upon effort, study, training, environment, circumstances and more, not all will come to the same level of understanding, but the truths of Scripture are not obviated by the disadvantages of those that seek them. This is exactly why Scripture teaches us the need for interpretation in community of the saints, such that all may partake of the illuminated wisdom of those around us, who came before us, or who will come after us.

AMR
 

JudgeRightly

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No.

A prayer was offered up for the sun to stand still. The prayer was answered and declared so. The Sun did not appear to stand still to all observers, else we have inspired writers of Scripture writing untruths. The text in question does not pertain to different perspectives in a narrative, but to narration. To claim there is inspired and uninspired speech in the narration is to claim that the penmen were not fully inspired. Such a view as yours undermines the verbal-plenary inspiration of Scripture. Further, there are no literary markers whatsoever in the Johua 10 account that point to metaphors or phenomenology as devices at work.

Those who hold heliocentricity usually avoid the idea of "error" in this passage by saying that the passage is simply accommodated to the way people thought at that time; and now that we are supposed to know better we can understand what is said as speaking according to the senses. On that explanation, though, there is no figure of speech. It is understood to be a literal statement which speaks according to the way the senses perceive things.

You will never be able to say with any degree of certainty that anything is true on the basis that the Bible teaches it while you allow that the Bible accommodates its teaching to the mistaken notions of men. Your doctrine of inspiration is not orthodox so long as you do not consider the suppression of the penmen's errors to be an active part of it. You will simply never know what is absolute truth and what is mere accommodation. Like the liberal, the canon of reason is required to distinguish where Scripture speaks truth and where it accommodates error.

Now if you are saying it is not an accommodation, but that it utilizes figurative language then the figurative language tactic is clearly negated by the fact that Joshua prayed for the sun to stand still, and God answered the prayer in terms of the sun standing still. Again, there are no figurative markers in the text. And, finally, it is clear that external considerations raised by secular science are being thrust upon the interpretation of the text.

Think of the consequences if your possibility was actually entertained. The liberals would have all the justification they need for explaining away the miraculous in the Bible since everyone to whom the Bible was written thought in terms of the miraculous. The Holy Spirit didn't know whether the Earth rotates or not when He inspired this passage? Yikes!

God is the vantage point here. He answered His servant's prayer. If God was simply accommodating Joshua's misconception, then who knows what is true!

AMR

You missed his point entirely.

AMR, did the sun grow legs and stand in one place for a few hours in the sky? Or did it simply stop moving?
 

JudgeRightly

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No.

The perspicuity of Scripture is within the grasp of all persons who devote themselves to its study. Depending upon effort, study, training, environment, circumstances and more, not all will come to the same level of understanding, but the truths of Scripture are not obviated by the disadvantages of those that seek them. This is exactly why Scripture teaches us the need for interpretation in community of the saints, such that all may partake of the illuminated wisdom of those around us, who came before us, or who will come after us.

AMR
I will reply to this and to your previous comment later when I have time, because you just contradicted yourself slightly, though you may not have noticed it.
 

Caino

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No.

A prayer was offered up for the sun to stand still. The prayer was answered and declared so. The Sun did not appear to stand still to all observers, else we have inspired writers of Scripture writing untruths. The text in question does not pertain to different perspectives in a narrative, but to narration. To claim there is inspired and uninspired speech in the narration is to claim that the penmen were not fully inspired. Such a view as yours undermines the verbal-plenary inspiration of Scripture. Further, there are no literary markers whatsoever in the Johua 10 account that point to metaphors or phenomenology as devices at work.

Those who hold heliocentricity usually avoid the idea of "error" in this passage by saying that the passage is simply accommodated to the way people thought at that time; and now that we are supposed to know better we can understand what is said as speaking according to the senses. On that explanation, though, there is no figure of speech. It is understood to be a literal statement which speaks according to the way the senses perceive things.

You will never be able to say with any degree of certainty that anything is true on the basis that the Bible teaches it while you allow that the Bible accommodates its teaching to the mistaken notions of men. Your doctrine of inspiration is not orthodox so long as you do not consider the suppression of the penmen's errors to be an active part of it. You will simply never know what is absolute truth and what is mere accommodation. Like the liberal, the canon of reason is required to distinguish where Scripture speaks truth and where it accommodates error.

Now if you are saying it is not an accommodation, but that it utilizes figurative language then the figurative language tactic is clearly negated by the fact that Joshua prayed for the sun to stand still, and God answered the prayer in terms of the sun standing still. Again, there are no figurative markers in the text. And, finally, it is clear that external considerations raised by secular science are being thrust upon the interpretation of the text.

Think of the consequences if your possibility was actually entertained. The liberals would have all the justification they need for explaining away the miraculous in the Bible since everyone to whom the Bible was written thought in terms of the miraculous. The Holy Spirit didn't know whether the Earth rotates or not when He inspired this passage? Yikes!

God is the vantage point here. He answered His servant's prayer. If God was simply accommodating Joshua's misconception, then who knows what is true!

AMR
The scripture is the written word, written and rewritten by holy men of faith. It's human and contains many errors. It was intended for spiritual instruction, the authors didn't claim inspiration.

The planets go around the sun, there is no argument in the world outside of speculation by the religious men of the past.
 

Nathon Detroit

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How do the seasons change?
According to the flat earth theory the diameter of the sun's circular path above us changes position (see attachment). The path of the sun gets longer and shorter depending on the season.

However there is no explanation as to how the sun changes speed to maintain a 24 hour day in these various paths. :doh:
 

Nathon Detroit

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No.

The perspicuity of Scripture is within the grasp of all persons who devote themselves to its study. Depending upon effort, study, training, environment, circumstances and more, not all will come to the same level of understanding, but the truths of Scripture are not obviated by the disadvantages of those that seek them. This is exactly why Scripture teaches us the need for interpretation in community of the saints, such that all may partake of the illuminated wisdom of those around us, who came before us, or who will come after us.

AMR

You missed his point entirely.

AMR, did the sun grow legs and stand in one place for a few hours in the sky? Or did it simply stop moving?
I love this side-topic but I kinda wish it was it's own thread as to not get lost in the Flat Earth topic. I wonder if a fresh thread would be valuable?
 

DFT_Dave

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No, because all I'll get is links to people like you, whose minds are already made up.

Want to start to convince people here? Find a non-flat earth source that acknowledges the existence of an actual ice WALL that is not simply ice at the poles.

And like I said earlier, if a camera is sent high enough, one of them should be able to see this ice wall in a location it shouldn't be on a globe. Astronauts should easily see it. None of them have.

Antarctic Ice wall
https://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs...iv-web&hspart=omr&hsimp=yhs-001&type=86311326

View attachment 25555 View attachment 25556

--Dave
 

DFT_Dave

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You mean "penumbra"?

You're wondering about why if the moon orbits the earth does it not always fall in the earth's shadow when the Earth is (relatively) between the moon and Sun, correct?

If so, you can show yourself why, using the following experiment:

Take a lamp (the bigger the better), and put it in one corner of a room, or better yet at the end of a hallway, facing the center/middle. Now take a basketball and place it towards the middle of the room at about the same height. Then take a tennis ball, and place it on the opposite side of the basketball from the lamp about 24 feet from the basketball, raising it 2.1 feet above the line made by the "sun" and the "earth." Experiment by raising and lowering the "moon" to simulate different times of the year, when the moon is at different angles (because the angle of the orbit does not change, just the direction in relation to the imaginary line made by the sun and the earth). Now do you see why in the solar system model the moon isn't always hidden in earth's shadow?

View attachment 25557 View attachment 25560

Something that is missing when we see the moon is form shadow or middle tone. Their should be a highlight area of direct sun light, then gradually to a middle tone area, then the dark area if the moon is a sphere.

View attachment 25558 View attachment 25559

The lines in this pic (below) that show the direction of sun light should be straight not at an angle, it's incorrect

View attachment 25562

This is how the umbra and penumbra of the earth should look like on the globe model (below).

View attachment 25561

--Dave
 

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Verbal Plenary Inspiration of Scripture

Verbal Plenary Inspiration of Scripture

The scripture...It's human and contains many errors. It was intended for spiritual instruction, the authors didn't claim inspiration.

Thank you for making it clear how far outside the camp you reside. I really have no time or interest in discussing sacred matters with those that think as do you.

AMR
 

chair

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If anybody watches the video, let me know how it was.
This stuff has not been as good for my roses as I had hoped.
 

Clete

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View attachment 25557 View attachment 25560

Something that is missing when we see the moon is form shadow or middle tone. Their should be a highlight area of direct sun light, then gradually to a middle tone area, then the dark area if the moon is a sphere.


View attachment 25558 View attachment 25559
Nope.

No atmosphere on the moon and a near point source of light (neglecting Earth shine) creates stark shadows on any sphere.

In all the internet, you couldn't find an actual photograph of a sphere being illuminated by a point source of light? You relied on computer animation and pencil drawings. Brilliant.

Why not just go get a nerf ball at the dollar store (or out of your kids bedroom) and test this idea for yourself?

The lines in this pic (below) that show the direction of sun light should be straight not at an angle, it's incorrect

View attachment 25562

This is how the umbra and penumbra of the earth should look like on the globe model (below).

View attachment 25561

--Dave
Both pictures are the same. One is simply exaggerated. :bang:
 

Derf

Well-known member

These are in the Arctic as well.
th

Sometimes we fly over them, just as people have flown over the Antarctic.

Does it bother you that nobody really knows what's on the other side of the ice wall, despite it being a rather easy task to fly over it?
maxresdefault.jpg
 

Nathon Detroit

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Sometimes we fly over them, just as people have flown over the Antarctic.

Does it bother you that nobody really knows what's on the other side of the ice wall, despite it being a rather easy task to fly over it?
If only we could see what's on the other side of the ice wall eh?

 

Derf

Well-known member

In fact, your second ice wall image is a photograph by Mike Theiss. You can see his copyright marking in the corner. Go here to see a non-cropped version of it (for sale, even!). (And check out other pictures by Mike Theiss--they're stunning.)

http://www.art.com/products/p36185719562-sa-i9483709/mike-theiss-tourist-in-a-boat-close-to-perito-moreno-glacier-hope-to-witness-calving.htm?sOrig=CAT&sOrigID=11092&dimVals=5428932-11092&ui=9CB363C9B15B48F2A522E1D641DD9C75&ac=true


It's quite beautiful. I love the mountains in the background. I also love the title of the photo: Tourist in a Boat Close to Perito Moreno Glacier Hope to Witness Calving.

Here's some more info about Perito Moreno Glacier that you might find interesting. It's in Argentina. And it's not quite as impassable as you might think. Here's a great photo of some of the area next to the glacier.

th
Isn't it beautiful seeing all that grass in Antarctica? I knew I liked global warming!!

I hope by this time you have begun to question your sources of information about the ice wall. And maybe some of the other stuff you've been dishing out here, perhaps?
 

DFT_Dave

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In fact, your second ice wall image is a photograph by Mike Theiss. You can see his copyright marking in the corner. Go here to see a non-cropped version of it (for sale, even!). (And check out other pictures by Mike Theiss--they're stunning.)

http://www.art.com/products/p36185719562-sa-i9483709/mike-theiss-tourist-in-a-boat-close-to-perito-moreno-glacier-hope-to-witness-calving.htm?sOrig=CAT&sOrigID=11092&dimVals=5428932-11092&ui=9CB363C9B15B48F2A522E1D641DD9C75&ac=true


It's quite beautiful. I love the mountains in the background. I also love the title of the photo: Tourist in a Boat Close to Perito Moreno Glacier Hope to Witness Calving.

Here's some more info about Perito Moreno Glacier that you might find interesting. It's in Argentina. And it's not quite as impassable as you might think. Here's a great photo of some of the area next to the glacier.

th
Isn't it beautiful seeing all that grass in Antarctica? I knew I liked global warming!!

I hope by this time you have begun to question your sources of information about the ice wall. And maybe some of the other stuff you've been dishing out here, perhaps?

The fact is Antarctica has a wall of ice.

Simple facts are not in dispute here.

--Dave
 

DFT_Dave

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Nope.

No atmosphere on the moon and a near point source of light (neglecting Earth shine) creates stark shadows on any sphere.

In all the internet, you couldn't find an actual photograph of a sphere being illuminated by a point source of light? You relied on computer animation and pencil drawings. Brilliant.

Why not just go get a nerf ball at the dollar store (or out of your kids bedroom) and test this idea for yourself?

Both pictures are the same. One is simply exaggerated. :bang:

The sun is not a "near point source of light"

How shadows work on a sphere is a fact.

The umbra is not the same in the two illustrations.

--Dave
 
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