The earth is flat and we never went to the moon--Part II

DFT_Dave

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Dave, this is you failing to comprehend the scale of the universe again.

The North star is 433.8 LIGHT YEARS away. That's 2.55 × 10^15 miles. Or if you prefer longhand...
2,550,000,000,000,000 miles away.

12,427,423,844 miles is hardly a stone's throw away.
Add to that the fact that Polaris is ALSO in the Milky Way Galaxy, and is therefore traveling in the same general direction as the solar system, there is, for all intents and purposes, no movement at all.

ONCE AGAIN you're conflating cosmological evolution with globe earth. STOP IT!

:blabla:

The scale ploy cuts both ways. It makes your point but also nullifies empirical evidence for you argument.

All this movement in the universe takes place on paper with calculations but cannot be visually verified.

--Dave
 

Silent Hunter

Well-known member
Believing in God or saying I'm a Christian is not the same thing as taking the Bible literally.

The Bible is flat motionless earth with sun, moon, and stars moving over it. The sun stood still for Joshua, the earth did not stop spinning. The writers of this account could have known the difference between a moving sun and a spinning globe, God knows the difference, and we know the difference. If God created a spinning globe he could have and would have said so. Adam knew intuitively the earth was flat and motionless, that the sun, moon, and stars move above the earth along with the clouds just as he saw it, if this was not a reality God would have informed him and us in the Genesis account of creation.

The Bible does not say we evolved, yet many believe we did and will call themselves Christians.

The Bible says there will be a Day of Judgement, and yet many say there will not be who call themselves Christians.

Many reject what the Bible says for various reasons and it would seem that the Devil who first tempted Eve not to believe what God said if she ate the apple but to believe his counter claim instead has though out history created counter claims to what God has said for purposes already stated. Satan does not want us to believe the Bible literally.

The flat earth is measurable.
If you had more than faulty arguments, logical fallacies and "videos" to offer you might be more persuasive.
 

Silent Hunter

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The scale ploy cuts both ways. It makes your point but also nullifies empirical evidence for you argument.

All this movement in the universe takes place on paper with calculations but cannot be visually verified.
Factually incorrect, unless you want to add astronomers who do indeed visually measure and quantify such things to your list of Illuminati conspirator.
 

JudgeRightly

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The scale ploy cuts both ways. It makes your point but also nullifies empirical evidence for you argument.

No, Dave, it doesn't. This is where stellar parallax comes into play.

All this movement in the universe takes place on paper with calculations but cannot be visually verified.

--Dave

Again, YES IT CAN. It just takes time and effort to do. But you're not willing to take the time or put in the effort, are you?
 

DFT_Dave

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Factually incorrect, unless you want to add astronomers who do indeed visually measure and quantify such things to your list of Illuminati conspirator.

And we can't doubt those infallible unbiased astronomers. Right?

We must accept whatever they see and however they interpret it.

They have never been wrong and never will be.

Let us give praise and worship the almighty astronomers.

:the_wave:

--Dave
 

DFT_Dave

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No, Dave, it doesn't. This is where stellar parallax comes into play.

Again, YES IT CAN. It just takes time and effort to do. But you're not willing to take the time or put in the effort, are you?

I lookup into the sky and see stellar parallax every night all over the place.

--Dave
 

JudgeRightly

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I lookup into the sky and see stellar parallax every night all over the place.

--Dave
You don't even know what stellar parallax is, do you?

Do you know what the word "parallax" means?

Because the way you just used it is probably one of the stupidest comments I've seen you make yet, and there have been a lot of them.
 

JudgeRightly

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And we can't doubt those infallible unbiased astronomers. Right?

That's called moving the goalposts, Dave. No one made the argument that they're infallible.

We must accept whatever they see and however they interpret it.

It's not hard to check someone's work to make sure the results they give are accurate.

They have never been wrong and never will be.

More moving the goalposts.

Let us give praise and worship the almighty astronomers.

:the_wave:

--Dave

:AMR:
 

Silent Hunter

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Factually incorrect, unless you want to add astronomers who do indeed visually measure and quantify such things to your list of Illuminati conspirator.
And we can't doubt those infallible unbiased astronomers. Right?
Sure you can (if we ignore your fallacy).

We must accept whatever they see and however they interpret it.

They have never been wrong and never will be.
You can always make your own measurements if you doubt theirs.

In fact, astronomers have this bad habit of sharing their data (observations) with other astronomers for review and verification ( but only with those who are in on the conspiracy).

Let us give praise and worship the almighty astronomers.
Well, unlike you, they ACTUALLY GO OUTSIDE AND MAKE OBSERVATIONS instead of relying on videos, which distort what is seen visually, to solidify your confirmation bias.
 
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Town Heretic

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Believing in God or saying I'm a Christian is not the same thing as taking the Bible literally.
Not every Christian would believe that, but I think that's true. And?

The Bible is flat motionless earth with sun, moon, and stars moving over it. The sun stood still for Joshua, the earth did not stop spinning. The writers of this account could have known the difference between a moving sun and a spinning globe, God knows the difference, and we know the difference.
The writer is accounting for what was seen. No, we do not know what God knows and that writer certainly didn't, but to the naked eye I'm sure it looked as though the sun stopped moving, even though the sun never actually was.

If God created a spinning globe he could have and would have said so.
Why? He didn't tell us about all sorts of things we've discovered to be true. The Bible is not and was never meant to be a book of science. Science is our way of fleshing the how. The Bible is the bones of a larger why.

Adam knew intuitively the earth was flat and motionless, that the sun, moon, and stars move above the earth along with the clouds just as he saw it, if this was not a reality God would have informed him and us in the Genesis account of creation.
There's nothing in scripture that has that in it, though I suspect for a very long time the experience of life taught men a thing that wasn't true, because it seemed true. And then one day a guy took a stick and considered a well, another fashioned a telescope, etc.

The Bible does not say we evolved, yet many believe we did and will call themselves Christians.
The Bible is utterly silent on air conditioning repair.

The Bible says there will be a Day of Judgement, and yet many say there will not be who call themselves Christians.
Okay. It's completely unrelated to what the Bible isn't trying to tell us and none of this contains anything like the fundamental explanation you need for a global, generational conspiracy including disperate countries, cultures, and a host of scientists with all sorts of agendas, even sans that media problem I noted.


Satan does not want us to believe the Bible literally.
Neither does the Bible in any number or places, but it helps if you have an understanding of the rhetorical/literary devices being used.

The flat earth is measurable.
I didn't ask you to save that dance for me. I asked for a thing you have yet to begin to put together, a thing upon which your entire view is founded.

Again, what's the purpose of this vast, generational, extraordinarily complicated (making the science of it work out) conspiracy, across countries and cultures and religious views, that makes it desirable by any of them, let alone all of them?
 
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chair

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Believing in God or saying I'm a Christian is not the same thing as taking the Bible literally.

The Bible is flat motionless earth with sun, moon, and stars moving over it. ...

--Dave

You think the Bible says the world is flat, and that is why you stick to the FE idea, and say the global earth is a satanic conspiracy.

Yet you also insist that you are seriously considering all the options. That is a lie.
 

Clete

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"If" everything in your math is correct it's accurate but it's not consistent with the big picture.

Another Year, Another 20 Billion Kilometers Through The Universe
"We live on a spinning and orbiting world, but we don't usually think about our other, greater motions through the cosmos—maybe we should."

The earth rotates once and travels 1.6 million miles in one day. The earth and moon orbit 584 million miles around the sun in a year. The sun with the earth/moon and the rest of our solar system travels through the universe 20,000,000,000 km (12427423844 miles) a year. And yet the North star and other stars light years away and outside of our solar system are still where we have always seen them in sync with the moon moving around the North Star. This would be impossible if the universe was evolving/expanding, i.e. moving apart.

Without "imagining" an irrational tilted axis for planet earth, and without "imagining" an inconsistent gravitational pull for giving it an elliptical orbit around the sun the heliocentric system would not exist as a valid view of the universe.

Flat earth puts sun, moon, and stars all relatively close and all moving above a motionless earth, just as we see it. Flat earth does not require all heavenly bodies to be moving at the exact same rate and exact same distance from earth. If the moon is moving above the earth as we see it than why not the sun since that is also how we see it, and if the sun then why not the stars which is also how we see them?

We don't have to "imagine" a flat motionless earth with a small close sun, moon, and stars moving across the sky. It's what we all see everyday in perspective.

Everything about the heliocentric universe has to be imagined. That imagined universe has been calculated and those calculations have been made presupposing what has been imagined and therefore are not proof of what is actually true about the universe. Evolution has been imagined along with this cosmology, a well as a timeless impersonal metaphysical god behind it all.

--Dave

All of this has been addressed over and over again. We know how far away the Sun is. We've known for hundreds of years basically how far away the Moon is and now we know within less than an inch how far away the Moon is.

Aristotle said that what is now known to us as Halley's Comet was some sort of a disturbance in Earth's atmosphere. He said that based on the same sort of simplistic thinking employed by Flat-Earthers. Aristotle at least had the excuse of having lived in the Pre-Roman Iron Age!
It was Tycho Brahe who, in 1577 (over 400 years ago) disproved Aristotle by using parallax measurements to prove that the comet had to be further away than the Moon. A lot further away.
It was Edmond Halley who, using his friend's freshly published law of gravity, determined that several appearances of comets in the past were actually the same object and successfully predicted it's return in 1758.

You, being COMPLETELY ignorant of the history of astronomy and utterly incapable of even comprehending concepts like the Law of Gravity and Parallax nor the first thing about how such concepts are used to understand the world in which we live, have no basis to even understand the stupendous nature of such a successful prediction, nevermind to sit in judgment over it based on "what we experience", especially since you don't even get the "what we experience" part right!

I distinctly remember seeing Halley's Comet when it came around back in 1986. I remember being rather disappointed because it was sort of a dud. You really couldn't see it very well without binoculars or a small telescope. This poor visibility has primarily to do with the fact that it's closest approach happened to be on the opposite side of the Sun from the Earth and so it was only visible for short periods of time either just after Sunset or just before Sunrise (depending on the date you were doing the observations on).

At any rate, I'd like for you to explain that, David. If Newton's Laws are a fraud and there is no gravity. If we aren't in orbit around the Sun, if the Moon is not in orbit around the Earth, if Jupiter and Saturn are not in well understood orbits around the Sun and have no gravitational effects on objects like Halley's Comet, how is it possible that I knew, as 17 year old kid, that Halley's Comet was coming for months and months and months in advance. How was it possible for my 11th grade astronomy teacher to have a Halley's Comet count down calendar posted in his classroom from the very first day of school in May of 1985?

If it's all a fraud and a hoax, designed by Satan, to trick us all into buying into an unbiblical view of God's creation, why oh why does it work? How could it possibly work? Why isn't the work that Edmond Halley did to make this prediction missing? How is it possible that it didn't get destroyed in some mysterious fire? Why is it still there for everyone to read and to fully understand and verify? Why wouldn't someone have shown up to say, "Oh! Wait guys! This Edmond Halley dude was wrong and here's why and this is how I know it." Where's the flat-Earther who has refuted Galileo, Copernicus, Brahe, Newton and Halley (just to name a few)?



Now, I've chosen one single astronomical object to make this argument. There are literally dozens I could have chosen. Meteor showers, the fact that Planets are called planets in the first place, the Moons of Jupiter, the Moons of Saturn, the Rings of Saturn, the phases of Venus, the phases of Mercury, the orbit of Mercury, asteroids, the Aurora Borealis, the discoveries of the outer planets (i.e. Neptune, Uranus & Pluto) as well as the dwarf planets (Ceres and others), etc, etc, etc. Basically, the last 400 to 500 years worth of astronomical history stands against this intellectual vomit that you're trying to get us to swallow. I'm here to tell you that I'm done with it. You want to throw 500 years worth of history into doubt, it's on you and I mean on you personally, to make the argument. I will not entertain one single more second of anything from anywhere other than type written arguments that you personally write and post. If it's a video, I'm ignoring it. If it is in quotation marks, I'm ignoring it. You will either make the argument in your own words or you can suck on your own intellectual vomit and I'll sit back and watch you choke on it. And I do mean actual arguments, David. Arguments where there is more than just naked, unsupported claims like you've made with this painfully idiotic nonsense about the speed of the Moon.

Clete
 
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genuineoriginal

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Fact: Cartographers have had to do a lot of experimenting to find ways to display a 3 dimensional globe on a 2 dimensional map.
images

The flat earth is measurable.

Cartographers make a living measuring the earth and making maps of it.
Cartography proves a spherical earth and disproves a flat earth.
 

Nathon Detroit

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You can look for it as well as me. I can't pin point it anymore than anyone else can. Perhaps more in the Part I than in Part II of the thread if I remember correctly.

--Dave
Wow. Really?

Dave... I went back and found my post and I took the time to repost it for your convenience. You can't even go back and find your response??

How about you just respond again. I'm sure you have answer as to why Australia is literally twice the size as it should be on a FE map.
 

Nathon Detroit

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At any rate, I'd like for you to explain that, David. If Newton's Laws are a fraud and there is no gravity. If we aren't in orbit around the Sun, if the Moon is not in orbit around the Earth, if Jupiter and Saturn are not in well understood orbits around the Sun and have no gravitational effects on objects like Halley's Comet, how is it possible that I knew, as 17 year old kid, that Halley's Comet was coming for months and months and months in advance. How was it possible for my 11th grade astronomy teacher to have a Halley's Comet count down calendar posted in his classroom from the very first day of school in May of 1985?
This is a brilliant argument.
 
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