The earth is flat and we never went to the moon--Part II

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DFT_Dave

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All of this has been addressed over and over again. We know how far away the Sun is. We've known for hundreds of years basically how far away the Moon is and now we know within less than an inch how far away the Moon is.

Aristotle said that what is now known to us as Halley's Comet was some sort of a disturbance in Earth's atmosphere. He said that based on the same sort of simplistic thinking employed by Flat-Earthers. Aristotle at least had the excuse of having lived in the Pre-Roman Iron Age!
It was Tycho Brahe who, in 1577 (over 400 years ago) disproved Aristotle by using parallax measurements to prove that the comet had to be further away than the Moon. A lot further away.
It was Edmond Halley who, using his friend's freshly published law of gravity, determined that several appearances of comets in the past were actually the same object and successfully predicted it's return in 1758.

You, being COMPLETELY ignorant of the history of astronomy and utterly incapable of even comprehending concepts like the Law of Gravity and Parallax nor the first thing about how such concepts are used to understand the world in which we live, have no basis to even understand the stupendous nature of such a successful prediction, nevermind to sit in judgment over it based on "what we experience", especially since you don't even get the "what we experience" part right!

I distinctly remember seeing Halley's Comet when it came around back in 1986. I remember being rather disappointed because it was sort of a dud. You really couldn't see it very well without binoculars or a small telescope. This poor visibility has primarily to do with the fact that it's closest approach happened to be on the opposite side of the Sun from the Earth and so it was only visible for short periods of time either just after Sunset or just before Sunrise (depending on the date you were doing the observations on).

At any rate, I'd like for you to explain that, David. If Newton's Laws are a fraud and there is no gravity. If we aren't in orbit around the Sun, if the Moon is not in orbit around the Earth, if Jupiter and Saturn are not in well understood orbits around the Sun and have no gravitational effects on objects like Halley's Comet, how is it possible that I knew, as 17 year old kid, that Halley's Comet was coming for months and months and months in advance. How was it possible for my 11th grade astronomy teacher to have a Halley's Comet count down calendar posted in his classroom from the very first day of school in May of 1985?

If it's all a fraud and a hoax, designed by Satan, to trick us all into buying into an unbiblical view of God's creation, why oh why does it work? How could it possibly work? Why isn't the work that Edmond Halley did to make this prediction missing? How is it possible that it didn't get destroyed in some mysterious fire? Why is it still there for everyone to read and to fully understand and verify? Why wouldn't someone have shown up to say, "Oh! Wait guys! This Edmond Halley dude was wrong and here's why and this is how I know it." Where's the flat-Earther who has refuted Galileo, Copernicus, Brahe, Newton and Halley (just to name a few)?



Now, I've chosen one single astronomical object to make this argument. There are literally dozens I could have chosen. Meteor showers, the fact that Planets are called planets in the first place, the Moons of Jupiter, the Moons of Saturn, the Rings of Saturn, the phases of Venus, the phases of Mercury, the orbit of Mercury, asteroids, the Aurora Borealis, the discoveries of the outer planets (i.e. Neptune, Uranus & Pluto) as well as the dwarf planets (Ceres and others), etc, etc, etc. Basically, the last 400 to 500 years worth of astronomical history stands against this intellectual vomit that you're trying to get us to swallow. I'm here to tell you that I'm done with it. You want to throw 500 years worth of history into doubt, it's on you and I mean on you personally, to make the argument. I will not entertain one single more second of anything from anywhere other than type written arguments that you personally write and post. If it's a video, I'm ignoring it. If it is in quotation marks, I'm ignoring it. You will either make the argument in your own words or you can suck on your own intellectual vomit and I'll sit back and watch you choke on it. And I do mean actual arguments, David. Arguments where there is more than just naked, unsupported claims like you've made with this painfully idiotic nonsense about the speed of the Moon.

Clete

I've written down all claims the of those who believe the earth is flat.

I'm not the author and originator of any of it. Some arguments are good, some not so good.

I started studying cosmology 5 years ago as the last of my personal concerns after theology and evolution. I started with modern cosmology, because I took the heliocentric model for granted but I knew Einstein had combined space and time which is an irrational construct. So I wanted to know how and why we had come to this point. Experiments that were supposed to tell us exactly how fast the earth was moving though space instead proved the earth was not moving at all so relativity was made up to save the heliocentric day.

So, flat earth is back in a big way. Watch the video of Mark Sargent and you'll see just how big.

Space time relativity is where we are today, moving into multiverses, and these propositions are mindless/irrational science fiction.

Galileo, Copernicus, Brahe, Newton, Halley, Einstein, Hubble, NASA.....all have to be looked at to see if they were correct or not in my opinion.

For me, personally, it's not confirmed in my mind if flat earth or globe is correct. I have not ignored your input, I'm grateful for it. It's not easy to attempt to rebut a GE view that's been covered in mind boggling calculations. To much of GE has been founded by too few who we must trust their observation and more importantly how to interpret those observations. Take Hubble for example.

"Hubble had measured the distance to over 20 galaxies using spectral analysis on the distant objects. Hubble noticed that the spectral lines were red-shifted, meaning they were moving further away. In fact, Hubble noticed the farther the galaxy was, the greater the red-shift was, meaning that the farther away a galaxy was, the faster away it was moving."

[video]https://www.space.com/25732-redshift-blueshift.html[/video]
I read the article and watched the video and wondered, "what did he actually see?" Did he just see that stars have color? Did he see stars changing color? How can anyone validate his conclusions apart from his own interpretation of what he says he is observing? We don't see anything changing from red to blue or vise versa here on earth so why should we believe it happens in space when viewing stars?

--Dave
 

JudgeRightly

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I've written down all claims the of those who believe the earth is flat.

I'm not the author and originator of any of it. Some arguments are good, some not so good.

I started studying cosmology 5 years ago as the last of my personal concerns after theology and evolution. I started with modern cosmology, because I took the heliocentric model for granted but I knew Einstein had combined space and time which is an irrational construct. So I wanted to know how and why we had come to this point. Experiments that were supposed to tell us exactly how fast the earth was moving though space instead proved the earth was not moving at all so relativity was made up to save the heliocentric day.

So, flat earth is back in a big way. Watch the video of Mark Sargent and you'll see just how big.

Space time relativity is where we are today, moving into multiverses, and these propositions are mindless/irrational science fiction.

Galileo, Copernicus, Brahe, Newton, Halley, Einstein, Hubble, NASA.....all have to be looked at to see if they were correct or not in my opinion.

For me, personally, it's not confirmed in my mind if flat earth or globe is correct. I have not ignored your input, I'm grateful for it. It's not easy to attempt to rebut a GE view that's been covered in mind boggling calculations. To much of GE has been founded by too few who we must trust their observation and more importantly how to interpret those observations. Take Hubble for example.



[video]https://www.space.com/25732-redshift-blueshift.html[/video]
I read the article and watched the video and wondered, "what did he actually see?" Did he just see that stars have color? Did he see stars changing color? How can anyone validate his conclusions apart from his own interpretation of what he says he is observing? We don't see anything changing from red to blue or vise versa here on earth so why should we believe it happens in space when viewing stars?

--Dave

http://media2.kgov.com/audio/20180730-BEL151.mp3

http://media2.kgov.com/audio/20180814-BEL162.mp3
 

DFT_Dave

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I posted this video so that all of you will see what's happening and know why flat earth is a growing movement.

Mark Sargent makes valid points in this video.

I'm researching FE and watching it along with trying to comprehend all that has made heliocentrism our belief today.

--Dave
 

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I posted this video so that all of you will see what's happening and know why flat earth is a growing movement.

Mark Sargent makes valid points in this video.

I'm researching FE and watching it along with trying to comprehend all that has made heliocentrism our belief today.

--Dave
You do not even have good understanding of what heliocentrism is.

It is NOT a "belief", it is an astronomical model of our SOLAR SYSTEM based on well established physics and well established observations.

It is NOT, as you've claimed before, that the Sun is the center of the universe.
 

DFT_Dave

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You think the Bible says the world is flat, and that is why you stick to the FE idea, and say the global earth is a satanic conspiracy.

Yet you also insist that you are seriously considering all the options. That is a lie.

I said "if" you take the Bible "literally" on the matter it's flat earth.

I said "if" the earth is indeed flat then it's Satan who is behind the conspiracy to make us reject this "literal" interpretation.

When arguing on behalf of a view you make your case as they would do with no "ifs" about it. I have to keep reminding everyone that I'm arguing on behalf of FE but personally I see good arguments on both sides.

So far the arguments are that the earth is flat and motionless from our perspective on earth and 20 miles above it.

So far the arguments for spinning globe come from watching what we see in the heavens and how that is interpreted which seems to me to assume a globe as it's premise. That premise maybe correct but "if" calculations are based on a presupposition then all those calculation and measurements are not proof of what is still presumed and may be entirely wrong.

Real visual empirical undeniable evidence is what had only become possible with the rocket ship. And NASA's Apollo moon landings certainly should have dispelled all doubts about or heliocentric universe. But if that was all faked then "Houston we have a real problem".

--Dave
 

DFT_Dave

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You do not even have good understanding of what heliocentrism is.

It is NOT a "belief", it is an astronomical model of our SOLAR SYSTEM based on well established physics and well established observations.

It is NOT, as you've claimed before, that the Sun is the center of the universe.

A spinning earth travels around the sun is basic heliocentrism as opposed to the sun travels around the earth, be it motionless globe or motionless flat earth.

I understand all the cosmological models.

--Dave
 

JudgeRightly

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I said "if" you take the Bible "literally" on the matter it's flat earth.

You really should stop making this argument. It's been refuted already.

I said "if" the earth is indeed flat then it's Satan who is behind the conspiracy to make us reject this "literal" interpretation.

When arguing on behalf of a view you make your case as they would do with no "ifs" about it. I have to keep reminding everyone that I'm arguing on behalf of FE but personally I see good arguments on both sides.

So far the arguments are that the earth is flat and motionless from our perspective on earth and 20 miles above it.

So far the arguments for spinning globe come from watching what we see in the heavens and how that is interpreted which seems to me to assume a globe as it's premise. That premise maybe correct but "if" calculations are based on a presupposition then all those calculation and measurements are not proof of what is still presumed and may be entirely wrong.

Real visual empirical undeniable evidence is what had only become possible with the rocket ship. And NASA's Apollo moon landings certainly should have dispelled all doubts about or heliocentric universe. But if that was all faked then "Houston we have a real problem".

--Dave
 

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I said "if" you take the Bible "literally" on the matter it's flat earth.
I like that you put literally in quotes....

The Bible does NOT describe a flat earth no matter how many times you repeat that lie.

This seems to be a theme with you... just keep repeating lies.

I said "if" the earth is indeed flat then it's Satan who is behind the conspiracy to make us reject this "literal" interpretation.
Again, funny that you put literal in quotes.

When arguing on behalf of a view you make your case as they would do with no "ifs" about it. I have to keep reminding everyone that I'm arguing on behalf of FE but personally I see good arguments on both sides.

So far the arguments are that the earth is flat and motionless from our perspective on earth and 20 miles above it.
Consistently FALSE logic on your part.

Since I, Dave, cannot feel the motion of the earth relative to myself, the earth must be motionless with respect to all other objects.

That is FALLACIOUS Dubious Dave.
 

Clete

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I've written down all claims the of those who believe the earth is flat.

I'm not the author and originator of any of it. Some arguments are good, some not so good.

I started studying cosmology 5 years ago as the last of my personal concerns after theology and evolution. I started with modern cosmology, because I took the heliocentric model for granted but I knew Einstein had combined space and time which is an irrational construct. So I wanted to know how and why we had come to this point.
You were good up to this point.

Experiments that were supposed to tell us exactly how fast the earth was moving though space instead proved the earth was not moving at all so relativity was made up to save the heliocentric day.
If you actually believe this and aren't just repeating something you heard on one of those idiotic YouTube videos, then you need to reinvestigate the Michelson Morley experiment because you are flatly wrong about it. It did not prove that the Earth was not moving at all. It could not have proved that because it wasn't even designed to answer that question.

A point that I have made repeatedly and in some detail and which you seem to have intentionally ignored.

So, flat earth is back in a big way. Watch the video of Mark Sargent and you'll see just how big.
You just cannot be seriously suggesting that you resurrected this flat-earth insanity based on the Michelson Morley experiment.

If this is so, you are far more stupid than I had ever suspected.

Space time relativity is where we are today, moving into multiverses, and these propositions are mindless/irrational science fiction.
The notion that we must accept relativity and multiverse theories or else the flat-earth insanity is perhaps the most collossally stupid false dichotomy that anyone has ever cared present in the entire history of TOL.

Galileo, Copernicus, Brahe, Newton, Halley, Einstein, Hubble, NASA.....all have to be looked at to see if they were correct or not in my opinion.
No one here made an bald assertions, David - except for you.

I knew almost a year in advance that Halley's comment would be visible in February of 1986 and every appearance of the comet since the 1500s has been predicted decades and centuries in advance. All based on the scientific work done by Brahe, Newton, and Halley.

And that's just one single thing. As I mentioned before, there are dozens of such things.

For me, personally, it's not confirmed in my mind if flat earth or globe is correct.
Based on the information that you have been exposed to just in my posts alone, this comment is proof that you are, in fact, stupid and/or that you have an agenda.

I have not ignored your input, I'm grateful for it.
I do not believe you. There is evidence to the contrary in this very post.

It's not easy to attempt to rebut a GE view that's been covered in mind boggling calculations. To much of GE has been founded by too few who we must trust their observation and more importantly how to interpret those observations. Take Hubble for example.



[video]https://www.space.com/25732-redshift-blueshift.html[/video]
I read the article and watched the video and wondered, "what did he actually see?" Did he just see that stars have color? Did he see stars changing color? How can anyone validate his conclusions apart from his own interpretation of what he says he is observing? We don't see anything changing from red to blue or vise versa here on earth so why should we believe it happens in space when viewing stars?

--Dave
It is not necessary for you to redo the science or to even understand it.

Halley's Comet will be visible in June of 2061. I KNOW THAT FOR A FACT! (Assuming of course that the Lord doesn't return or that the comet doesn't break apart or other unforeseeable variables)

Do you not understand the point?

It's a prediction that directly tests that validity of the science. The science is based on all sort of different ideas and various kinds of concepts and presuppositions. Is it right or not? Well, what does the science say should happen and when? If the science is valid, it makes testable predictions. Halley predicted the next occurrence of the comet and the prediction was right and every prediction about the comet has been right ever since. Therefore the science is valid and correct.

Clete
 

DFT_Dave

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You really should stop making this argument. It's been refuted already.

Stars fall to earth.

Sun moves and then stands still.

God sits above the "circle", not ball of the earth.

These verses cannot be taken literally for a globe earth spinning and rotating around the sun.

--Dave
 

DFT_Dave

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I like that you put literally in quotes....

The Bible does NOT describe a flat earth no matter how many times you repeat that lie.

This seems to be a theme with you... just keep repeating lies.

Again, funny that you put literal in quotes.

Consistently FALSE logic on your part.

Since I, Dave, cannot feel the motion of the earth relative to myself, the earth must be motionless with respect to all other objects.

That is FALLACIOUS Dubious Dave.

Funny how you think using quote marks is funny.

The word "if" means the premise is questionable, but this is correct logic based on the premise.

You can change the premise and say "if" we don't take these verses "literally" we do not have a flat earth from the Bible.

We not only don't feel the motion of the earth, we also see that "everything" above us is moving. You can feel motion is cars, trains, etc, when they turn or change their speed. Our eyes inform us also if we are in motion.

I keep saying what is true to our experience.

--Dave
 

Clete

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Stars fall to earth.
Stars never ever fall to Earth!

Meteor showers eminate in all directions from a small region in the sky. Whatever that region happens to be is what gives the meteor shower it's name.
A point I have made several time before and which you ignored. Don't bother claiming that you didn't ignore it. The sentence quoted above is proof that you did ignore it.


The Perseid Meteor Shower peaked just last week. It was reported on nearly every news cast in the Universe. Did you bother to go observe it?

I would literally bet my house and every asset I own or have custody of that you did not.

For good measure, here's a very high resolution photo taken of the Perseid Meteor Shower in 2016.

https://www.nao.ac.jp/en/contents/gallery/2016/20160913-oao-full.jpg

Sun moves and then stands still.

God sits above the "circle", not ball of the earth.

These verses cannot be taken literally for a globe earth spinning and rotating around the sun.

--Dave
Yes, they can. I take them entirely literally and totally understand what is being said and there is not one scintilla of conflict with what they say and what I know to be facts about the way the world works and what shape the Earth is.

Just because you're too stupid to get it, doesn't mean everyone is.

Clete
 

JudgeRightly

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Stars fall to earth.

Verse please? I feel like you're speaking about a verse in Revelation, but it could also be in The Prophets...

Sun moves and then stands still.

This has been addressed. From the point of view of someone on the surface of the earth, the Earth ceasing to spin for a bit would cause the sun to cease moving in the sky. Movement is relative to the observation point.

God sits above the "circle", not ball of the earth.

The hebrew word there can also mean sphere.

Also, the silhouette of a sphere is.... A CIRCLE! God's perspective is from "above" the earth (we've been over that too, I remember discussing this), and so while He is capable of seeing the entire earth, from any one point of view He sees the circle of the earth.

These verses cannot be taken literally for a globe earth spinning and rotating around the sun.

--Dave

SURE THEY CAN! You just refuse to consider it.

Here's one more example that MUST be taken literally or it makes no sense, and it doesn't fit the flat earth model.

From the oldest book in the Bible:

He drew a circular horizon on the face of the waters, At the boundary of light and darkness. - Job 26:10 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job26:10&version=NKJV

And from Proverbs:

When He prepared the heavens, I was there, When He drew a circle on the face of the deep, - Proverbs 8:27 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs8:27&version=NKJV

Taken literally, the phrases "boundary of light and darkness" and "circle on the face of the deep" and "circular horizon on the face of the waters" all match perfectly with what is called the terminator (no, not Schwarzenegger) line

Wikipedia: A terminator or twilight zone is a moving line that divides the daylit side and the dark night side of a planetary body.

There is no circular terminator line on the flat earth model.

You can say the spotlight sun could cast a light with a circular terminator line, but then it would only illuminate a very small portion of the earth, which doesn't fit reality, which is that the sun illuminates (roughly) half of the world at once, while the other half is in darkness. Meaning the shape of the terminator line on a flat earth would not be circular, but a semicircle. But that doesn't fit scripture, which says "circle" and "circular."

So no, scripture taken literally does NOT say the earth is flat. If anything it shows the earth to be a sphere.
 
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Clete

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I keep saying what is true to our experience.

--Dave
No, you don't. You repeat claims about our experience that you hear other idiots say on YouTube.

The fact is that you wouldn't feel the motion in a car is the ride was sufficiently smoothed out. It is changes in direction and momentum that you feel in a car. The Earth does not have to contend with bumps and hills and stop signs. It's travel through the emptiness of space is quite completely smooth.

The Earth is constantly turning in it's orbit but the turn is too slight to detect by our physical senses. The orbit of the Earth is truly enormous. Plus the fact that we have lived our entire existence with that constant turn and our brains would learn to ignore it even if we could feel it. This is where science comes in. Science like that which has been demonstrated to you multiple times on this thread. People observe the Sun (and other bodies) and determine that the Earth CANNOT be flat. They make further observations and make models that have the Sun revolving around the Earth but determine that there are discrepancies between that model and what is actually observed in the real world. They then tweak this and that detail and rethink things over and over again until the answer is found with a model that places the Earth in orbit around Sun. A model that makes very very specific and detailed predictions about what should be observed and that is this testable and verifiable by anyone who wants to verify it.

And that last point is your flaw. You have no understanding of seemingly anything related to science or math. Nor do you seem to have any desire to do the work required to accomplish what you claim you're attempting. You want to sit at your desk and pollute you mind with truly moronic YouTube videos and think that counts as research into cosmology. Then when someone proves with the clearest of logic and junior high school level mathematics that the Earth cannot possibly be flat, you literally ignore it. Or, at the very least you give it the weight of a feather in comparison to the medicine ball type weight you ascribe to these ridiculous video.

Clete
 

DFT_Dave

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You were good up to this point.

If you actually believe this and aren't just repeating something you heard on one of those idiotic YouTube videos, then you need to reinvestigate the Michelson Morley experiment because you are flatly wrong about it. It did not prove that the Earth was not moving at all. It could not have proved that because it wasn't even designed to answer that question.

A point that I have made repeatedly and in some detail and which you seem to have intentionally ignored.

You just cannot be seriously suggesting that you resurrected this flat-earth insanity based on the Michelson Morley experiment.

If this is so, you are far more stupid than I had ever suspected.

The notion that we must accept relativity and multiverse theories or else the flat-earth insanity is perhaps the most collossally stupid false dichotomy that anyone has ever cared present in the entire history of TOL.

No one here made an bald assertions, David - except for you.

I knew almost a year in advance that Halley's comment would be visible in February of 1986 and every appearance of the comet since the 1500s has been predicted decades and centuries in advance. All based on the scientific work done by Brahe, Newton, and Halley.

And that's just one single thing. As I mentioned before, there are dozens of such things.

Based on the information that you have been exposed to just in my posts alone, this comment is proof that you are, in fact, stupid and/or that you have an agenda.

I do not believe you. There is evidence to the contrary in this very post.

It is not necessary for you to redo the science or to even understand it.

Halley's Comet will be visible in June of 2061. I KNOW THAT FOR A FACT! (Assuming of course that the Lord doesn't return or that the comet doesn't break apart or other unforeseeable variables)

Do you not understand the point?

It's a prediction that directly tests that validity of the science. The science is based on all sort of different ideas and various kinds of concepts and presuppositions. Is it right or not? Well, what does the science say should happen and when? If the science is valid, it makes testable predictions. Halley predicted the next occurrence of the comet and the prediction was right and every prediction about the comet has been right ever since. Therefore the science is valid and correct.

Clete

So much of what I write you misinterpret because you chop it up into singe sentences without following the train of thought.

How Einstein Made the Earth Move
(…When All the Experiments Showed it Didn’t Move)


See PDF Albert Einstein: The Earth Mover

The experiments that proceeded Einstein's declaration of space-time relativity were to demonstrate the speed of the earth thought space assumed to be filled with ether, which was merely a term used because light requires a medium to travel through.

When several tests failed to show the earth was moving the heliocentric men of science obviously had to discredit them. Regardless what in space that allows light to travel through it the test should have confirmed the movement of the earth through it. Saying these tests disproved the ether is missing the point, relativity was a response to no movement not to no ether.

“There was just one alternative; the earth’s true velocity through space might happen to have been nil.”--Physicist, Arthur Eddington3

“The data [of Michelson‐Morley] were almost unbelievable…There was only one other possible conclusion to draw—that the Earth was at rest.”--Physicist,Bernard Jaffe4

“Thus, failure [of Michelson‐Morley] to observe different speeds of light at different times of the year suggested that the Earth must be ‘at rest’…It was therefore the ‘preferred’ frame for measuring absolute motion in space. Yet we have known since Galileo that the Earth is not the center of the universe. Why should it be at rest in space?” --Physicist, Adolph Baker5

“…The easiest explanation was that the earth was fixed in the ether and that everything else in the universe moved with respect to the earth and the ether… Such an idea was not considered seriously, since it would mean in effect that our earth occupied the omnipotent position in the universe, with all the other heavenly bodies paying homage by moving around it.”--Physicist, James Coleman6

“The Michelson‐Morley experiment confronted scientists with an embarrassing alternative. On the one hand they could scrap the ether theory which had explained so many things about electricity, magnetism, and light. Or if they insisted on retaining the ether they had to abandon the still more venerable Copernican theory that the earth is in motion. To many physicists it seemed almost easier to believe that the earth stood still than that waves–light waves, electromagnetic waves-could exist without a medium to sustain them. It was a serious dilemma and one that split scientific thought for a quarter century. Many new hypotheses were advanced and rejected. The experiment was tried again by Morley and by others, with the same conclusion; the apparent velocity of the earth through the ether was zero.”--Historian, Lincoln Barnett, foreword by Albert Einstein7[/QUOTE]

Yes I think all the experiments made before Einstein declares relativity are important because, experimentally the earth is not moving. But this is not the only reason, as I have stated many times, why flat earth has valid arguments.

--Dave
 
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DFT_Dave

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Stars never ever fall to Earth!

Meteor showers eminate in all directions from a small region in the sky. Whatever that region happens to be is what gives the meteor shower it's name.
A point I have made several time before and which you ignored. Don't bother claiming that you didn't ignore it. The sentence quoted above is proof that you did ignore it.


The Perseid Meteor Shower peaked just last week. It was reported on nearly every news cast in the Universe. Did you bother to go observe it?

I would literally bet my house and every asset I own or have custody of that you did not.

For good measure, here's a very high resolution photo taken of the Perseid Meteor Shower in 2016.

https://www.nao.ac.jp/en/contents/gallery/2016/20160913-oao-full.jpg

Yes, they can. I take them entirely literally and totally understand what is being said and there is not one scintilla of conflict with what they say and what I know to be facts about the way the world works and what shape the Earth is.

Just because you're too stupid to get it, doesn't mean everyone is.

Clete

The sun stood still is not the same as the earth stood still.

If the the earth stood still then this verse, that the sun stood still, is not to be taken literally.

Lucky for you I don't call you an idiot for not understanding something so simple.

--Dave
 
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