The earth is flat and we never went to the moon--Part II

[JudgeRightly]

View attachment 26567

Sun overhead.

View attachment 26568

Sun at sunset.

--Dave

Ok, and?

 

[DFT_Dave]

Did that. You ignored every argument I made.

Actually, it's utter stupidity. If it had anything at all to do with perspective, as I said in my last post, the Sun would simply get smaller and smaller as it passed into the distance. IT DOES NO SUCH THING.

I will not watch your asinine videos, David. I don't care what you think it shows, what it does not show is the Sun shrinking into the distance like EVERY OTHER THING THAT YOU'VE EVER SEEN GET FURTHER AWAY FROM YOU! If the sunset had anything to do with perspective, the apparent diameter of the Sun would shrink into the distance just as rail road tracks do and for the same reason.

No need for photos, videos or any electronic anything. Simply go outside and watch the sunset.

If it shows that, which I doubt, he is a liar and you're a fool to give him one minute of your time.

Want proof?

Go outside and watch the sunset (or sunrise).

This single sentence is all I need to know to understand that its a 1000% INTENTIONAL lie.

Refuted by me in my last post and now again in this post.

I DARE YOU TO DO THIS!

Perspective is easy to graph. An object twice as far away is half the apparent size, something three times as far away is one third the apparent size and so on.

Two objects, one twice a big but twice as far away as the other, will both have the same apparent size.

Get it? Super duper simple. Graph it.

Clete

You can't refute an argument based on video evidence if you don't watch it.

Land masses rise up and block the sun as it moves away into the distance over a flat earth.

Again, why does the sun not get smaller over a spinning globe when it does indeed get farther away from the viewer?

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

Ok, and?

And you think you can see where the flare begins in the overhead photo. I don't think so.

--Dave

 

[JudgeRightly]

You can't refute an argument based on video evidence if you don't watch it.

Yes, he can.

Land masses rise up and block the sun as it moves away into the distance over a flat earth.

So the land moves?

Again, why does the sun not get smaller over a spinning globe when it does indeed get farther away from the viewer?

--Dave

This has been answered, but you ignored it.

I know it has been answered because I answered it myself. No, I'm not going to redo the math, and no, I'm not going to go find my post containing the math. Figure it out yourself.

 

[JudgeRightly]

And you think you can see where the flare begins in the overhead photo. I don't think so.

--Dave

You must be blind, Dave.

Look at the picture you posted. Compare mine with yours. Do you see that little circle in the middle of what you call the sun? That's the actual sun, Dave.

So yes, Dave, I don't just "think I can see" where the flare begins, I highlighted where it DOES begin.

 

[DFT_Dave]

You must be blind, Dave.

Look at the picture you posted. Compare mine with yours. Do you see that little circle in the middle of what you call the sun? That's the actual sun, Dave.

So yes, Dave, I don't just "think I can see" where the flare begins, I highlighted where it DOES begin.

There is flare as you say but this pic does not indicate where it begins.

As I said to Clete, the sun is farther away from the viewer at sun set and sunrise than it is when it's over head and so it must appear larger when closer to the viewer and smaller when farther away from viewer.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

Yes, he can.

So the land moves?

This has been answered, but you ignored it.

I know it has been answered because I answered it myself. No, I'm not going to redo the math, and no, I'm not going to go find my post containing the math. Figure it out yourself.

You know what I mean by land masses rise up, but just because your playing dumb, I'll explain the obvious anyway. Land, that I'm referring to, is above sea level, and can rise to elevations very high above sea level. That does not mean they move. There are many times though that I don't think you're just playing the dumb card, but I always give you the benefit of the doubt.

Math does not explain that things farther away appear larger the closer they get and appear smaller the farther away they get from the viewer. And the sun does get closer to viewer on a spinning globe until it's over our head and farther away from us as it sets. Can you do the math on that?

--Dave

 

[Right Divider]

There is flare as you say but this pic does not indicate where it begins.

As I said to Clete, the sun is farther away from the viewer at sun set and sunrise than it is when it's over head and so it must appear larger when closer to the viewer and smaller when farther away from viewer.

--Dave

You have never given even the tiniest shred of actual EVIDENCE for this statement. How about some FACTS?

If this were true, you could PROVE it... but you cannot.

The actual observations that we CAN determine prove you WRONG.

(Simple geometry is your enemy Dave).

 

[Stripe]

Simple geometry is your enemy Dave.

He thinks NASA is his enemy. lain:

The conversation is a waste of time solely because Dave declares himself a non-believer in the flat-Earth myth.

It's bizarre because he then defends their ideas without a hint of irony.

If this were a serious scientific debate, we would look at the fundamentals.

For normal people, the fundamental question is easy to answer and understanding flows from it:

Why is the Earth round?

For flat-Earthers, the fundamental question is destructive to a rational explanation of the universe:

Why is the Earth flat?

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[SaulToPaul 2]

No. Let's read it sensibly. :up:

:wave:

Do you still believe that the firmament is the ground itself?

 

[JudgeRightly]

:wave:

Do you still believe that the firmament is the ground itself?

There's a discussion for that going on here:

https://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?p=5256958

 

[Stripe]

:wave:

Hi.

Do you still believe that the firmament is the ground itself?

Which firmament?

Check out this post:

The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day. Then God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years; and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. Then God said, “Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens.”
Genesis 1:2, ‬6-‬10, ‬14-‬18, ‬20 NKJV​

Bolded are references to what we say are two firmaments. The distinction is in those bolded phrases, but also among the details linked to each:

The "firmament called Heaven" has the following features:

1. Created within water. The water is "the deep" of verse 2.
2. Has water above it, called "seas," and water below.
3. Is called "Heaven." Singular, capitalized.

The "firmament of the heavens" has the following features:

1. Has heavenly bodies created within it.
2. Has birds flying across its face.
3. It's of the "heavens." Plural, lower-case.

From our point of view, there are many distinctions and those differences are plainly in the text.

The firmament called Heaven is the granite crust of the Earth, which was broken into pieces by the fountains of the great deep (see feature 1).

The firmament of the heavens is outer space.

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[JudgeRightly]

Hi.


Which firmament?

Check out this post:



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Man, you and I are on a roll haha

 

[Stripe]

Man, you and I are on a roll haha

I've never seen the two of us in the same room. :think:

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[Yorzhik]

You know what I mean by land masses rise up, but just because your playing dumb, I'll explain the obvious anyway. Land, that I'm referring to, is above sea level, and can rise to elevations very high above sea level. That does not mean they move. There are many times though that I don't think you're just playing the dumb card, but I always give you the benefit of the doubt.

Math does not explain that things farther away appear larger the closer they get and appear smaller the farther away they get from the viewer. And the sun does get closer to viewer on a spinning globe until it's over our head and farther away from us as it sets. Can you do the math on that?

--Dave

So, I haven't used pejoratives against you, I have watched the videos, I went to the trouble to make an animated gif in direct response to your video. Do I need to call you names to talk with you? Again, you seem to be only respond to people that will describe you in a bad light just so you can fall back on an accusation of name-calling when you can't defend your position.

 

[Right Divider]

So, I haven't used pejoratives against you, I have watched the videos, I went to the trouble to make an animated gif in direct response to your video. Do I need to call you names to talk with you? Again, you seem to be only respond to people that will describe you in a bad light just so you can fall back on an accusation of name-calling when you can't defend your position.

But this is a big part of the problem. Dave actually thinks that he is defending the FE "model" by repeating the same old worn out and completely disproved "ideas" that he has found on the Internet (like the silliness that the sun does actually get smaller from midday to sunset).

 

[Stripe]

So we can just insult Dave instead of entertaining this nonsense?

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[CabinetMaker]

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[Clete]

View attachment 26567

Sun overhead.

View attachment 26568

Sun at sunset.

--Dave

Thank you for conceding the debate.

Next topic.

 

[Clete]

You can't refute an argument based on video evidence if you don't watch it.

You can't because you're stupid.

I have no such problem.

I can refute it and did exactly that.

Land masses rise up and block the sun as it moves away into the distance over a flat earth.

You mean like when train track go up a hill, getting apparently narrower and narrower as they go up and away from you?

Here's a pic of some people standing at the top of a hill. Notice how the poeple look smaller than they would if they were closer? That's due to perspective!

View attachment 26570

And here's a pic of a train coming down a hill. Notice how the engine looks larger than the back of the train? That's because the engine is closer and therefore takes a large percentage of the field of view (i.e. perspective).

View attachment 26571

The point is that whether the ground comes up and forshortens the distance to the horizon or not, if the Sun were getting appreciably further away, it would shrink into the distance just like everything else in existence does. But it does not do that! This is, by itself, PROOF that the Earth CANNOT be flat - period. The sunrise and sunset would look altogether different than they do, as would the Sun throughout the day for that matter. It would be very noticably larger at noon and way way way smaller in the morning and evening. (Never mind explaining what happens to it at night!)

Again, why does the sun not get smaller over a spinning globe when it does indeed get farther away from the viewer?

--Dave

It does get smaller/larger depending on where we are in the orbit. The Earth's orbit is almost circular but not quite. The Earth is 147,098,074 km from the Sun at perihelion (closest) to 152,097,701 km at aphelion (most distant). That a total difference of 4,999,627 km. That's a difference of about 3.2%. This is the reason why total Solar eclipses don't always cover the disc of the Sun the same way.

If you want to physically see the difference, take two tennis balls and place one 25 feet from you and the other 25 ft and 9 inches away and see if you can discern the difference with your naked eye. At that distance the tennis balls will be pretty close to the same apparent size as the Sun. Now, assuming that you can discern a difference in the apparent size of the two tennis balls, imagine taking one ball and rolling it the nine extra inches away over a period of six months.

Clete