The Church in the Book of Revelation

[glorydaz]

Psalm 118:22-23

We find Jesus, who He is and what He accomplished in the synoptic gospels. This is the cornerstone upon which the foundation is built.
The foundation is laid by the apostles so we find it in their writings.
Believers are the living stones of the building that grows in volume and spreads to all the earth.

The foundation is the doctrinal truths that we find in the writings of the apostles. The church is built upon this doctrinal foundation. It is a closed system, in that it is complete. Nothing is to be added to it or taken away from it.

So now, again, do you see ways in which our local churches and teachings that are accepted are sliding off that foundation?

You'll see this is a prophecy concerning Israel. Jesus was a minister to the circumcision.

Psalm 118:
2 Let Israel now say, that his mercy endureth for ever.
3 Let the house of Aaron now say, that his mercy endureth for ever.
4 Let them now that fear the Lord say, that his mercy endureth for ever.

Romans 15:8

Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

Paul laid this foundation...which is on Jesus Christ.

1 Cor. 3:
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.



So you can think the foundation of the apostles and prophets will save you, but I'll go with the foundation Paul laid...which is Jesus Christ.

 

[Arial]

I suspect that you just cruise around looking for ways to be disagreeable and have no idea how the post you responded to came about. Short version: someone told me my beliefs would damn me so I ask him to tell me what and why? That if he saw someone on their way to hell, shouldn't he do as Jesus commanded and preach the gospel to me. To which he tried to skate out of that by saying Jesus only said that to his disciples. So I gave him scriptures of Jesus saying to spread the gospel, to which the other person quoted something else with no explanation---and now here you are! You seem to attach yourself to whatever pack of two who bicker about nothing just to avoid the actual subject, to become a pack of three. But here you go. The gospel.

According to Peter:
Then Peter opened his mouth and said: "In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him. The word which God sent to the children of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ---He is Lord of all--- that word you know, which was proclaimed throughout Judea, and began from Galilee after the baptism John preached: how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. And we are witnesses of all things which He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem, whom they killed by hanging on a tree. Him God raised ip on the third day and showed Him openly, not to all the people, but to witnesses chosen before by God, even to us who ate and drank with Him after He rose from the dead. And He commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be Judge of the living and the dead/ To Him all the prophets witness, that through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins."

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. nd those of the circumcision who believed were astonished as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. (Acts 10:34-45)

The gospel according to Paul:
Acts 13:29-32

And when they had carried out all that was written of Him, they took Him down from the tree and laid Him in a tomb. But God raised Him from the dead and for man das He appeared to those who had come up with Him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are now His witnesses to the people. And we bring the good news that what God promised to the fathers, this he has fulfilled to us their children by raising Jesus, as also it is written in the second Psalm,'You are my Son, today I have begotten you.'

38-39 Let it be known to you therefore, brothers, that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, and by Him everyone who believes is freed from everything from which you could not be feed by the law of Moses.

I was asked to present the gospel, with much personal vitriol: (cruel and bitter criticism) and much sarcasm, as though I never had and never could. So I posted an example right out of scripture of Peter preaching the gospel and Paul preaching the gospel, which are the same, and the gospel I believe. Three people marked it sad, with no comment.

Which begs the question----- if the gospel Paul and Peter preached is sad, or if that is not the gospel in their opinion @glorydaz @Right Divider @JudgeRightly then what do you say it is. It is just the gospel I am asking for, not a repeat of MAD doctrine skirting the simple, straight forward question.

 

[Right Divider]

We find Jesus, who He is and what He accomplished in the synoptic gospels.

Paul says that WE (i.e., the body of Christ) are NOT to know Jesus in THAT way.

2Cor 5:16 (AKJV/PCE)
(5:16) Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [him] no more.

 

[Arial]

Paul says that WE (i.e., the body of Christ) are NOT to know Jesus in THAT way.

That simply means Christ isn't here in the flesh anymore.

 

[Right Divider]

That simply means Christ isn't here in the flesh anymore.

Hogwash...

2Cor 5:16-17 (KJV)
(5:16) Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [him] no more. (5:17) Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Paul also tells us that Jesus was a minister of the circumcision.

Rom 15:8-12 (KJV)
(15:8) Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises [made] unto the fathers: (15:9) And that the Gentiles might glorify God for [his] mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name. (15:10) And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people. (15:11) And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people. (15:12) And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

Your attempts to force scripture into your doctrines is just plain wrong.

 

[Arial]

Hogwash...

Paul also tells us that Jesus was a minister of the circumcision.

Your attempts to force scripture into your doctrines is just plain wrong.

It was actually the plain clear meaning of the text unless one is wearing MAD blinders---which you are, and because of that you are unteachable---you have made that clear. You actually worship MAD and make scripture fit that view, so I wipe the dust off my sandals and move on to things that matter.

Here, before I go let me post your reply for you:" No you are unteachable!"

 

[Right Divider]

It was actually the plain clear meaning of the text unless one is wearing MAD blinders---which you are, and because of that you are unteachable---you have made that clear. You actually worship MAD and make scripture fit that view, so I wipe the dust off my sandals and move on to things that matter.

Total nonsense!

Paul was telling the body of Christ that we as NOT to "know Jesus" as the Israelite, but as the LORD from heaven.

Here, before I go let me post your reply for you:" No you are unteachable!"

The blinders are all yours.

https://graceambassadors.com/mystery/christ-after-the-flesh
https://graceambassadors.com/midacts/the-way-we-teach-jesus

 

[Arial]

The blinders are all yours.

Maybe I didn't make myself clear. Let set the scene and tone; RD : With childish outrage and stomping of foot, "No!! You have on the blinders!!"

I will leave you and the MAD's to the thread as you have overtaken and trashed it anyway. Have fun finding someone to fight with.

 

[glorydaz]

I was asked to present the gospel, with much personal vitriol: (cruel and bitter criticism) and much sarcasm, as though I never had and never could. So I posted an example right out of scripture of Peter preaching the gospel and Paul preaching the gospel, which are the same, and the gospel I believe. Three people marked it sad, with no comment.

Which begs the question----- if the gospel Paul and Peter preached is sad, or if that is not the gospel in their opinion @glorydaz @Right Divider @JudgeRightly then what do you say it is. It is just the gospel I am asking for, not a repeat of MAD doctrine skirting the simple, straight forward question.

Clearly you're seeing "personal vitriol" where there is none. That says more about you than it does anyone else.

Neither of the examples you gave were a gospel that I could see.

The "sad" face was because you don't know the gospel you're supposed to be preaching.

 

[glorydaz]

Maybe I didn't make myself clear. Let set the scene and tone; RD : With childish outrage and stomping of foot, "No!! You have on the blinders!!"

I will leave you and the MAD's to the thread as you have overtaken and trashed it anyway. Have fun finding someone to fight with.

You even read a "stomping of the feet" into our posts. Get over yourself, Ariel.

Just admit you don't know how to preach the gospel and we'll help you.
Or are you too proud to do that?

 

[glorydaz]

It was actually the plain clear meaning of the text unless one is wearing MAD blinders---which you are, and because of that you are unteachable---you have made that clear. You actually worship MAD and make scripture fit that view, so I wipe the dust off my sandals and move on to things that matter.

Here, before I go let me post your reply for you:" No you are unteachable!"

Yep, and it's been clear you have been trying to teach us your own personal error.

Examine yourself, whether you be in the faith.
You don't even know how to preach the gospel.
That leaves you empty.

 

[glorydaz]

. It is just the gospel I am asking for,

You have a funny way of asking.

Do you believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ as payment for our sins?

 

[glorydaz]

That simply means Christ isn't here in the flesh anymore.

When Jesus was here in the flesh, He was preaching the Kingdom that will come upon the earth TO THE JEWS.

Thus, we are to know the RISEN LORD and what He revealed to Paul. I'm quite amazed that so many people simply IGNORE what our RISEN LORD revealed to Paul, and continue running back to something that was not intended for them at all.

Rightly dividing is in the Bible, but you and others are too chicken to even consider doing it. Who is the verse addressed to?

 

[Arial]

You have a funny way of asking.

Do you believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ as payment for our sins?

That is called answering the question with a question. Also known as avoiding the question.

 

[glorydaz]

That is called answering the question with a question. Also known as avoiding the question.

I was giving you an example of what you're supposed to ask a person to see if they believe what is required to be saved.

Sorry it went over your head.

 

[Idolater]

I do not know what you mean by mystical language. I see nothing mystical about Paul's language.

Colossians 3:3 " ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God."

What part of this to you is not mystical? You are "dead"? "Your life is hid with Christ in God"?

Behavior and attitudes acceptable and expected as Christians is a part of Christian doctrine---not its entire focus. Behaviors--ethics---if you will are of the earth. To set our focus there on our ethics is to set our focus on us. It is Christ, our Savior, Redeemer, and High Priest who is above. Not our ethics.

It just conflicts with the actual chapter. After telling us to " seek those things which are above" and " Set your affection on things above", he says to, " Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth", as if they are connected. So they either actually are connected, or they are not connected and it only appears that he's connecting them.

I'm just saying that they are connected, because that's the context of the chapter.

Imperatives of behavior are given for instruction in righteousness. Fallen people need to be trained in righteousness or we do not even know what it is. If our focus and love is on and for Christ, and we stay focused on His word---all of it---these changes will take place for it is the Holy Spirit who bears this fruit in us.

And it will happen because we "Set [our] affection on things above", which are ethics. In other words our ethics are not going to get better without meditating on ethics.

The things above are perfect. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The believer is sealed in Christ and His righteousness, and in that sense, the sense of being in Him (union through faith) Paul can say our life is hidden with Christ in God. He does not say we are now in heaven.

Well I don't know, he says that mystical thing about being dead and how our life is hid in Christ with God, and in another place he says, Ephesians 2:4 " God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:"

And the scriptures show us what ethical behavior is, but they do not say that Jesus is meditating on ethics or that we are to meditate on ethics.

It absolutely does say we are to 'meditate on ethics' so long as ethics concerns our actions or behaviors or habits. Colossians chapter three is just one place where Paul says it; he says it plenty of other places, and other NT writers say it too.

The Holy Spirit is given to the believer as a teacher of the things of Christ, to remind us of all things that He has said. (John 14:26) To testify of Jesus. (John 15:26) To guide us into all truth. (John 16:13) To glorify Jesus. (John 16:14)

The Spirit came upon the Apostles in a special way. "tongues like as of fire" Acts 2:3 type special. The Apostles are our teachers.

It is the Holy Spirit that produces the fruit of obedience (ethics) in the believer (Gal 5:22-23), not we who produce it from within ourselves. It is the Vine (Jesus) that produces the fruit on the branches, not the branches that produce the fruit. Our responsibility in this equation is to obey what we read in scripture as to the "ethics". We are being transformed (not transforming ourselves) into the image of Christ. (2 Cor 3:18). This is a lifelong process and it comes about as we contemplate His glory, not by meditating on ethics.

So Colossians 3:5 " Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth", that just means----wait for the Holy Spirit to do it?

 

[glorydaz]

Colossians 3:3 " ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God."

So Colossians 3:5 " Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth", that just means----wait for the Holy Spirit to do it?

I like how Paul talks first about these things men do to make themselves look "wise". Spiritual pride.
Notice will worship, and "humility", and body neglect....all things men do to impress others and boast of their own control.

Col. 2:23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom (touch not taste not) in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

Seems to me, when he says to mortify your member (the flesh) -- Col. 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: -- after just saying we are dead, he is saying let those old habits die off as well. Don't feed the beast. When we are setting our affections on things about, we are taking our minds off the flesh.

 

[Arial]

Colossians 3:3 " ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God."

What part of this to you is not mystical? You are "dead"? "Your life is hid with Christ in God"?

Depends on how you are using the word mystical I suppose. It is however, figurative language. The meaning is found in the other parts of the apostles writings---the doctrines of salvation. And it says "you died" (not you are dead.) This is being contrasted to what came immediately before--"If you were raised with Christ." We died to sin and were raised to life with/in Christ. The "your life is hidden with Christ in God," is a statement of the believers eternal life with Christ is secured in Him who has been raised from the dead and returned to the Father. Paul is addressing a particular type of false teaching that had come into the church at Colossae. That involved among other things the necessity of but insufficiency of Christ's death and resurrection.

It just conflicts with the actual chapter. After telling us to " seek those things which are above" and " Set your affection on things above", he says to, " Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth", as if they are connected. So they either actually are connected, or they are not connected and it only appears that he's connecting them.

I'm just saying that they are connected, because that's the context of the chapter.

It is the risen Christ who is above. The false teaching that was in this church had much to do with adding rituals and festivals and the worship of angels, and ecstatical experiences as a way to heaven to the work and person of Christ. They were focusing on things of the earth. It helps to know a bit of the reason/purpose the author is saying what he is, and in this will be given in any good study Bible with book prefaces. The Paul tells them, that since they belong to Christ, have died with Him and been raised with Him and are a child of God, we should put to death the sin that was a part of our former way of life. And gives instruction. But that is a "therefore", not telling them to meditate on those things, but to recognize them.

And it will happen because we "Set [our] affection on things above", which are ethics. In other words our ethics are not going to get better without meditating on ethics.

"----above where Christ is." On Christ. If we are focused on Him it will transform our outward behavior because we abide in Him.

Well I don't know, he says that mystical thing about being dead and how our life is hid in Christ with God, and in another place he says, Ephesians 2:4 " God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:"

The "dead" is a spiritual condition. He made us spiritually alive.

It absolutely does say we are to 'meditate on ethics' so long as ethics concerns our actions or behaviors or habits. Colossians chapter three is just one place where Paul says it; he says it plenty of other places, and other NT writers say it too.

It does not say "Meditate on ethics." It says to put on the new man, because that is what the believer is in Christ. Then he tells us the characteristics of the new man that. These are things we are to submit to and obey, not meditate on. The Holy Spirit does the convicting.

The Spirit came upon the Apostles in a special way. "tongues like as of fire" Acts 2:3 type special. The Apostles are our teachers.

The Holy Spirit came upon the apostles at Pentecost with a visible sign but also on all who believed the gospel that they preached. The sign was necessary at that time, in part, so that it would be visibly seen that Jew and Gentile alike received the same Spirit, that it was not exclusive to the Jews. It is no longer needed as a visible sign as we have the written word. But every believer receives the Holy Spirit, (He gives the new birth or regeneration needed to bring to life the spiritually dead to believe when they hear the good news. (John 3; Eph 1:13-14) It is this giving of and sealing by the Holy Spirit that places a believer in Christ and keeps him there.

So Colossians 3:5 " Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth", that just means----wait for the Holy Spirit to do it?

It is not passive. "Lead them into all truth. Your word is truth," Jesus prayed. If we never read the Bible, never meditate on His word and search the scriptures as though mining for the pearl of greatest value, these things that pertain to our attitudes and behaviors as one being transformed by God into the image of Christ, then we will not know what is our duty to obey. At the same time it is the Holy Spirit that causes this living word to penetrate to our very heart, and love obedience. It takes a lifetime.

 

[Arial]

@Idolater

To add a footnote to my previous post of today: When this regeneration comes and the Holy Spirit indwells a person to begin His work in them, there will be a change in the person, of necessity. After all an unimaginable and glorious and actual event has taken place in them. If there is no change, this has probably not taken place, though that is not to say that it never will. Keep seeking and we will find. This change may be large or small, may or may not be yet visible to others, but known within the person. And it does not mean everything will change all at once---growth is just that, growth. And it will be different or may be for each person as we are all individuals. But the Holy Spirit will begin to convict us of sin---something in us will begin to recognize right from wrong. Not just in a societal way but a way in which we recognize it as not pleasing to God. And we will have a powerful love of God our Savior.

 

[Arial]

That is called answering the question with a question. Also known as avoiding the question.

So none of those persons, including you, who scoffed at the gospel as preached by Peter and Paul, actually have a gospel or know what it is? Kind of what I thought.